Ellmau Late Feb Early March - SO MANY questions!

A snowHead

Sorry I have a ton of questions and I guess the snow head possie will probably have some words of wisdom to share...

About us
Two adults in (erm) Mid Thirties, plus 4 year old child. Will be about 4 1/2 when we get there.
I skied as a kid - quite well. Moguls etc never phased me. Red runs were where I hung out. Then I didn't ski for years, got old, fatter, unfit and generally more aware that crashing and dying was probably not the best thing to happen. Skiied again 6 or 7 years ago, had some lessons at Castleford, then went to Dolomites twice, had lessons out there too.

Parter never skied as a kid, she had lessons when I did the Castleford stuff and came to Dolomites. First year in Dolomites she had lots of issues with her boots and struggled to get comfy skiing. Second year we bought our own boots and she did better. By second year she was pregnant with the "wee man" so was struggling with morning sickness but did pretty well considering. We did some private lessons together that year and just for a short session (??2 hours I think) because we didn't want to over do it..

"The Wee Man" turned 4 at the end of September. Never skied but loves snow. He's booked on some dry slope lessons in December and assuming he likes it and actually listens to his instructors (apparently children are designed to be completely oblivious to what their parents say unless it is "would you like chocolate?") then we will book to go somewhere in the second half of the season when its hopefully warmer. He's not at school till next year which means we have a reasonable amount of control on 'when' we can go. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and loves it. He seems to have no issues with being abandoned. He doesn't nap at nursery but if we take him somewhere mega energetic (he can cycle a two wheeler and did 6 miles the other day for instance) he will either be knackered afterwards and when he's knackered the "would you like chocolate" sensor seems to be even more faulty, or he will drop off for a sneaky snooze in the car or occasionally off to bed.

Bed time is 7.30 (thats bathed and in bed getting story by then). You could set your clock by him. No issues getting him to snooze and once he's snoozing a bulldozer driving through the house wouldn't wake him till 6ish at the earliest. This week its mostly been till 7ish...

The "Plan"
So I was thinking of leaving booking till I know he likes skiing. I suspect he will. I suspect if he listens he will be good - as I say he can go a two wheeled bike, he's been swimming since he was 8 weeks - never had arm bands and now can do a width of a small pool with no help (adult there to fish him out if he drowns!) so I think he will be fine with the balance etc if he listens to what he's told and doesn't "back bottom" around... I horribly suspect he'll be better than me at the end of the week!

We've seen a "cheap" chalet with double bed and single in one room in Ellmau in Austria. Thinking maybe going 28th Feb for a week. I know its a bit low so wouldn't want to be there any later than that unless winter decides to last longer than last year! I've been to Austria (Neukirchen) before as a teenager but didn't take much notice of the details.

We choose the dolomites before because I liked the idea of Selaronda - i.e. do something rather than repetitively going up and down the same slopes. But to be honest either my skill wasn't good enough or more likely my fitness wasn't good enough. I'm working on the fitness for 2015. But I didn't think it was great for beginners. We did Arabba the first year and it lacked blue runs and even one of the Blues the instructors said was really a red but they needed it to be Blue to work with the routes... We moved to Corvara the second year which had a better range of Blues. But I still didn't feel it was quite what I'd want for a child and the transfers are quite long and can't get there from my local airport so needed another UK transfer. I can cope with that but I'm not sure Cadbury can supply enough chocolate wink

I tobogganed last time I was at the Dolomites and think that'd be a nice alternative activity for a day.

The Questions
Ski School
There seem to be 3. All named very similar! 1 seems cheaper than the others and I can book online through ski-set and reduce its price even more. Doing that reduces the price below Crystal's package offerings. The other two seem more expensive and higher priced.

I know it will vary year to year as instructors vary but anyone got comments on any of the schools?

Am I right in thinking "Skischule TOP Ellmau" is located at the Kirchbichl drag and the other two are at Marcher?

Hours - they all seem to do 4 hour lessons with Lunch in the middle. It looks to me like its intended to abandon your child. Wasn't really thinking of abandoning my child for that long! Thought it might be nice to ski with him but at the end of 4 hours he'll be shattered and the day will be close to finishing. As an eternal worrier I'd be frighted something serious happens and it takes me an hour to get back to him or even longer to get to him if he's had to go to hospital without me. Do other people not stress about these things?

Whats the best way to do this? I was thinking I might book some lessons really to get a feel for what goes where, what's achievable etc so that I discover some nice easy routes for me that me and him could do together. So do I book him on lessons from Sunday, then I can be around on the Sunday to make sure he's OK. Then book me on lessons from Monday? How many days? As I said I'd quite happily do some tobogganing and either take a non-skiing day or and afternoon off to do it. I'd quite like to say let him have lessons till Wednesday and then on Thursday and Friday go on our own Ski Adventure and Toboggan Adventure! But Friday is the kids race thing. I can book 5 days lessons for about 15EUR more than 3 days - do I just book it and not send him for the last 2 days if he's ready for daddy adventure? Do people do that? Do people book for 4 hours and then retrieve their child at lunch time to take them for daddy adventure in the afternoon?

Boot lockers - never used them. I hate walking in Ski Boots. I hate carrying my skis. He wont be carrying his I suspect and I suspect will not be a fan of walking in boots that are quite frankly the most uncomfortable thing he will ever wear! So I discovered one of the schools has lockers at the skischool. That seems really sensible. Anyone got comments? (Queues to get in lockers?)

Location relative to the Chalet... So I am struggling to find a map showing me where the Chalet is. I think I found one but someone could just have dropped the marker on the village! If its where I think it is then if TOP SkiSchool is where I think it is then its the nearest. While that is not the reason to pick a school if they are all much of a muchness it would be! Although its not the cheapest. It also looks to me that thats the bit thats better connected to the area?

Who do Crystal use?
This is the layout as I understand it...

Timing

Is the first week of March likely to be OK?Seem to avoid most school holidays and the snow levels seem reasonable that week over previous years plus they have a ton of snow makers. So I'm thinking of risk of daytime slush and early morning ice?

Ski Hire
A bit like lessons I can so a cheaper online deal by booking in advance than Crystal can offer, i suspect Crystal don't use anyone that gets them special services so who should I go with -

any recommendations?

lessons plus hire package or join the best together separately?

Passes
EUR225 per adult. Wee man is free.
That gets me all of the SkiWelt area. But you've probably gathered I don't want to go all over SkiWelt I feel I should be close(ish) to the Wee Man. He might manage 4 hours a day , i'm not sure i will!
I want to go tobogganing which the passes don't cover I don't think so I loose a day of pass?

That should do me for just now... thank you for reading all that!

A snowHead

Hi, that is a lot of data!
I think you need to pop him into ski school for 4 hours a day all week - it will do him the world of good. Continuity of learning, being with his new buddies, right through to the race day. (this is the Austrian way, and is different in France etc.)

You can go and play toboggan stuff on any convenient slope after ski school and before changing out of the outdoor gear. He will be tired. All he will need is a patch of sloped snow not the cresta run. I know I managed to enjoy my snow time in the UK in very limited space - but our garden did have a slope. Anyway, once skiing is found...toboganning becomes a second best passtime

I learned to ski as a teen, taught by my Father. I think I may have been better off in ski school, but that isn't my father's way - self taught in most things, and I have inherited this trait. I read and watch videos. I only recently took some 'bump clinic' time at the last End of Season Bash...and one or two pointers from the pro instructor (ex-pro French bumps pro) pushed my technique forward in a leap.
(I also had a week with Easiski that bumped me forward about 5 years back...and a day in a Austrian ski school group (with my wife) where the instructor also gave me a couple of tips that were incisive and immediately added to my 'toolbox')

To be honest, I love my Dad, but resented being tied to his ski agenda (And I was not a terrible teen). You have to let him out into the world at some point Smile

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@polc1410, I am struggling to work out what you are really asking.... But have you considered a family orientated operator? They have several advantages, not least of which early childrens dinner allowing the, go to bed at there normal time, which was always a struggle for us when we went independently, fine if I was cooking every night, but we struggled to find food served early enough to let me have a night ff cooking.

I can personally recommend Esprit there lessons for younger ones are only half days not full days, you have the option of booking kids clubs etc but there is no obligation to. The lessons are exclusive to Esprit guests and all English speaking, when we took Ellie for the first time (she was 4 then) there was only three of them in the lesson, from memory that age group has a max of 6 per lesson guaranteed and they gave an Esprit staff member to help as well. In their Chalet Hotels they have free baby listening service which allow you to put your child to bed at normal time, sign them into it (you give instructions as per how you would like them to check on your child) and then you can go down fir an adult dinner.

As you are outside school hols (and too late for early bird discounts) I am sure you can get last minute deals, if you were looking at 13/14 thbDec they have various plastic minute deals advertised now:

http://www.espritski.com/offers/

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You can find the points required for each lift here: http://www.skiwelt.at/en/lift-status-1.html

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@polc1410, You could get a 5 in 7 day lift pass. If you get a normal 4 or 5 day pass it will be valid on consecutive days. A 5 in 7 day pass works out a bit more expensive than a normal 5 day pass but you can choose which day you don't ski, mid week if you want.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Many thanks guys for the responses. Was starting to worry I'd asked to much in one post and everyone switched off!

@lampbus - I get what you are saying. If he was 8 I'd be in complete agreement. He's not at school yet so 'dumping' him in a forgein country possibly in a group of non-english kids could be torture. I'm not saying I want to teach him to ski - my skills are too rough for that. Just I'd like to be part of his holiday. if he's in Ski school from 10-3.30 and by the time you get him back he's too tired for a ski and then its dinner and bed...

The tobogganing I'm thinking of is a 4.5km run rather than a bit of sledging. We've sledged in this country - its totally not in the same league.

@NickyJ - so I guess I was in summary asking three or four things:
- Local advice re Ellmau ski schools, lift passes etc
- Advice re balancing a kid being in Austrian ski school from 10 till 3.30 at the age of 4 and the kid being part of the family
- Some local geography advice where exactly things are
- Should I book the Crystal extras or create my own bespoke extras

I have looked at Esprit and took another look based on your recommendation. They don't fly from the North East of England which adds to the journey time - I'm either travelling from Newcastle to Edinburgh, East Mids or Manchester each of which will be 2-3hours journey extra. Don't mind that for me but feel sorry for the wee man - 3 hours in car to airport, 2 hours in departure lounge (need to allow for traffic delays), 1.5hr flight, 0.5hr sort everyones bags out, 1.5hour transfer to chalet. 8.5hour journey. Whereas if I can fly direct from Newcastle That can be a 5.5 hour journey... Plus if the flights are early mornign it eithr means an overnight drive or staying over etc.

I'm also not sure Esprit does what I want. I don't really want someone else to look after my child. I want someone else to teaach my child to ski - yes. But I'm quite happy to keep an eye on my child once he's asleep etc. The chalet we've been looking at is not huge - his room woulnd't be much further from the dining room than we are in our own house and he's a sound sleeper. The chalet we've been looking at will do early meals for kids if wanted. So I think from a chalet perspective I'm happy, from a location/flights perspective I'm happy. My concern is during the day and the snowy stuff being too much for him and even if it isn't I think there is something nice about me skiing with him (provided he hasn't progressed to black runs by the end of the week in which case he's on his own!!)

@denfinella Fantastic - I've been all over that website and couldn't find it. Didn't look at the lift status page as I knew all the lifts are off at the moment anyway! Will sit with a calculator and do some maths...

@SaraJ Good suggestion. So we would have been going for 6 days pass as probably wont ski on arrival day and depart at stupid O'clock on departure day. Having now been and re-read the toboggan pass thing its actually the evening access thats not included. So although I may have a non-ski day I may well still need my pass for all 6 days... I can't see us having a completely snow free day, and I can't see me not skiing if he is.

There doesn't seem to be any way to reduce the cost of the pass by booking in advance.. ..so I may let my plan develop when I get out there - e.g. buy a points pass for 1 day when I may stay relatively close to the skischool on his first day and then decide what I'm likely to need if I am either in skischool myself or just brave enough to venture further away from there...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I've now found the chalet address and found a map that will show me it and it is pretty much where I've marked it. So that bit is sorted. Anyone who's been and can confirm locations of the ski schools?

After all it is free

I went with my children to Ellmau. They all loved it. We went maybe 4 years consecutively. They talk about it positively 10 years later. We went in February half term. no issues with snow cover. I have been back since (without the children) later in the season and there has always been enough snow.
The policy that I adopted (it will be different for different children) was to stay around the Ellmau area and try to be around generally at lunchtime in case I was needed (I wasn't).
We used the Hartkaiser Ski Schule and were very happy but that was some years ago now, and I suspect that any of the mainstream ski schools will be fine.
The option to buy the "any 5 days in 7" ski pass is worth it. Start off with the idea that a 4 / 5 year old child will want a day off mid week sometime. it has to be fun. The Kaiserbad leisure centre is brilliant for kids of all ages and ours certainly enjoyed it as a part of the holiday. Make sure that you get the Gaestekarte from your tour operator as it gives a discount on the entry fee. They are keen on the time that you are in the centre and will charge extra if you stay longer than paid for.
It's difficult to say where the ski schools will be based as it depends on the snow cover. If there is plenty of snow then child beginners will be in the town centre, either at the "Going" end of town or towards the "Hartkaiser" depending on which ski school. But if snow is poor, the ski school may move to the top of the Hartkaiserbahn funicular.

You are going to have a brilliant time. Enjoy

Hi, this year will be our 3rd consecutive trip to Ellmau. We (my wife and I and our 3 children ages 5½, 5½ and 7) fly in to Vienna from Dubai and meet grandparents who fly in from the UK. The children have been skiing since they were aged 3½, 3½ and 5.

We will be in Ellmau for the last week of February and the first week of March.

We like to stay together as one family so we need a large suite, these in Ellmau are hard to come by and very expensive. We hire a vehicle from the airport and drive to a lovely hotel 25 minutes away from Ellmau just over in the border in Germany, a stones throw from the picturesque town of Kufstein. We have been going to the same hotel each year and stay on a half board basis.

If this might suit you, they you could drop Nadine an email using the address below and she will be able to quote for a room to suit your family.

Hotel Details:
Web: http://www.wilderkaiser.de/en/
Email: info@wilderkaiser.de

We always use ‘Skischule & Skiverleih Ellmau Hartkaiser’ for equipment hire and for the childrens lessons. The teachers have been very good each year (the instructors also seem to return each year too!) and the children have enjoyed every minute and are now able to ski most of the mountain with us.

I would suggest that you do not ‘spectate’ on the children’s lessons, they will focus on you more than the instructor.
I’d suggest you drop Anita an email on the address below and she will be able to quote for the lessons and equipment hire that you need (there is a discount for email/online bookings).

We have the children in ski school for 5 days the first week, and then they ski with us for the second week. The lessons are for 4 hours per day, with a break of 1-2 hours for lunch. We have always given the instructor 10Euros per child per day and they take care of all lunch time arrangements, going to different restaurants each day (you can return to take the children for lunch if you wish). We return to pick up the children around 3pm if memory serves me correctly.

It was my eldest daughter’s birthday whilst skiing for the past 2 years, each year we booked her a private lesson as a birthday treat and the fabulous Marianne was her instructor on each occasion. Marianne even bought her a small gift and a red rose because it was her birthday.

I thoroughly recommend this ski school.

Ski School Details:
Web: http://skischule-ellmau.com/index.php?lang=en
Email: info@skischule-ellmau.com

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@polc1410, ah hadnt appreciated you are looking at a Crystal catered chalet? That's good to know they offer an early dinner option for children. Though I do agree that neither my girls at 4 would have been upto 4hrs a day tuition, I am surprised there isn't a half day option. Shame about the flights.

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@JohnHSmith many thanks, you've cheered me up no end. Spotted the Leisure Centre Little Angel

@Weib.beer I wasn't planning to stand and watch him on lessons (well maybe for the first 10minutes)...
and as JohnHSmith said to stick to the general area so if I was needed back I can get back.

Thanks for the hotel link. I think I know where I want to stay, but always useful to have alternative options.

@quinton Maria, Louise and Anna you say... ...i might need to keep a closer eye on him in Ski school than I thought Laughing

So two people have recommended the same Ski School which is great - and even better they offer an online booking discount Toofy Grin

Anyone know where these guys teach if there is good snow in the village?

You know it makes sense.

@polc1410, I don't know Ellmau so well, but in other Austrian resorts, the courses for children are usually run in special kids' areas in the village - usually near the ski school office or a hotel where they can go inside for chocolate and food and toilets etc whenever necessary. These areas have cartoon figures, moving carpet lifts, play equipment such as giant foam blocks and foam trees and so on and are often also fenced off from the rest of the ski area to keep the children in and prevent idiot skiers from crashing into them. At 4, ski lessons are a mixture of skiing, play, sliding, singing songs, drinking chocolate, building snowmen etc in order to keep the kids interested. The Austrian style is to learn through play.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@quinton Yip Ellmau is the same from what I can see. But there are 3 ski schools and 2 nursery areas in Ellmau in the village! So trying to suss out where the "Skischule & Skiverleih Ellmau Hartkaiser" teach from so that I can make sure I understand where things like ski lockers etc are relative to the school.

They say they go to different restaurants for lunch but there are not many in the nursery area so I'm still confused what they do! And from seeing kids at other slopes previously I'd expect by day 3 they would be snow ploughing their way down some blues in a train... so not 100% sure if he'd be playing with the foam blocks and moving carpets or off skiing past me on the runs wink

A snowHead

The Hartkaiser Skischule is located very very close to the nursery area in the village (there are two, this is the one nearest the 'Going' end of town)

A snowHead

Ellmau is great and we are returning there in feb after being their in jan 13. The kids ski school at the nursery slope beside the tbar is excellent and austrians really do have it well sorted for kids. Dont know what chalet you are staying in but we stay in chalet Hart kaiser with crystal and the ski school for kids is about 7 or 8 minutes walk. I say book him in all day. He will love it

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@polc1410, In the village, each ski school will have a partner hotel or restaurant that they use. The 'different restaurants' refers to what they do once up on the mountain - rather than ski all the way down for lunch, they will have arrangements with different restaurants around the mountain. As for the 'Hartkaiser' ski school nursery location; you could just phone them up and ask.

Whether he'll be playing with the foam blocks or whizzing down the mountain depends on what he finds most fun and how well his motor skills and coordination have developed. Some 4-year-old kids can easily do blues by the end of the week - some 6-year-olds are still barely able to stand up in a pair of ski boots.

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JohnHSmith Thanks thats what I thought.

mikeelsa that is the Chalet we are looking at. Laughing

Which set of nursery slopes - the ones on the way to the fenicular or the ones over towards Going?

quinton so for me this is a lot of money to spend to have my kid play with foam shapes. But I'm thinking I wouldn't be booking to go if he's not able to do a snow plough turn after he goes to a couple of lessons on dry slope in a week or two's time.

Help!!

Ellmau Late Feb Early March - SO MANY questions!

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