 Poster: A snowHead
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I bought some Dynastar Legend Pros at the end of last season. A bit of a punt having not tried them before but I've been a big fan of Dyna's freeride skis in the past and I liked what I had read about them... oh and they had 30% off. Tried them out for the first time this weekend gone.
Me: 95kg, 185cms. Ability? I think I know how to handle myself in most situations but not a rock star. I do like to ski pretty fast though.
Ski: 186cm; 124, 97, 116; turn radius 28m ish
These skis exceeded my expectations. I tried them on a mix of wind-blown powder, crud, hard pack (getting on for ice), and hard and soft moguls. The bad first - these are not a mogul ski! You probably worked that out already. Everything else, you just point them and they go. They go over or through soft snow. They carve on piste outrageously well. I honestly didn't notice the width underfoot. I did notice the 28m turn radius - you need a bit of space to carve these and you need to like to go fast. They are pretty stiff so lighter skiers may find them hard work, as would people who like to make lots of little turns.
In conclusion, for a big lad like me with reasonable technique who likes to spend as much time off piste as possible, I think these are a one ski quiver. They're basically a giant slalom ski with 3cms extra girth. Fantastic 
Edit: I have now had these out in some proper powder now and compared them to another powder ski, the Volkl Gotamma. The LPs are great fun in the soft stuff. It's really fun going fast and they feel very stable doing it. You do need to be a little bit careful not to make the tips dive but that's a minor gripe. If tight radius Ss are your thing, you can do them, but there are better skis out there for that. I'd say that the Gotammas were possibly a bit more user-friendly in untracked powder, but lost out in crud and on the piste when getting back to the lift for another lap.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 6-03-06 15:17; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, nice review. They're a great ski, I found them to be a very close ride to my Explosive. Unstoppable. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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parlor, the only thing I wondered was whether the 194 would have been even more fun 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How would they be in tight chutes and trees (assuming you're not going to be straight-lining!)?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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jedster, talking about the 186s here, I think they would be pretty good in chutes - they have very good edge hold and feel very sure under foot. In tight trees, I think there are probably better skis out there. You can do lots of quick short turns on them but it is quite hard work.... or maybe I need to get fitter 
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Arno,
Perfect for Engelberg then... I might try the 8800 as I thought the 8000 was nippy enough for what I want.. I do like short turns tho'... just in case...!!
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JT, it's not going to stop you from doing short turns. It's a carved turn radius that it's going to effect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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parlor,
Yep, but you need to know what they can do and not making a huge effort doing it. I'm not against wider skis at all and can see great advantages but this is my reservation about skis in general. I talk to a guide about a route and he might say it is a bit tight on this section with rocks etc... and then wide open blah.... For me, I don't know the terrain, have never been there before and don't quite know what to expect. I think I need to be on my game so I go for a ski that I know I can work in tight situations. I don't like planky skis as my style/technique doesn't lend itself to it. I may need a rethink here and may have to do something about it but from this stand point I would want the ski I know. In this situation I will go for an XL or a 8000. I will not suffer with these skis. If I were to do the same route again and thought I knew what to expect this might be the time to go bigger and sweep the place up. But in the first instance I will go with what I know.
All I'm saying is I don't need too many surprises all at once and it might not be the place to demo. As I don't get enough ski time, demoing comes a bit down the list!
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JT, until you've skied some fat skis, shut up. OK? Sorry, I know that’s very harsh but there are many people reading these boards that are forming opinions from your dribble. The best place to test these skis is on a piste, you'll soon work out that you can throw them from side-to-side real hard and real easy. The type of technique that you need to ski in the places you have just described:
| Quote: |
| bit tight on this section with rocks |
You will no longer be carving your skis! You can use the same technique on any ski you like, it won't make any difference apart from how deep you sink in to the snow!!! You know those tight powder turns that you aspire to? The really old school turn on a sixpence, knees bouncing style turns? You can still do those on fat skis  They also give you the opportunity to lay out super GS turns in the same conditions, if you want.
You keep banging on about how you only ski off piste but you keep contradicting yourself by demonstrating your blinkered understanding of ski terrain and the suited techniques that are involved with skiing it.
I was trying really hard to leave this debate behind. I know not everyone skis off piste, I know that everyone doesn't need fat skis. Everyone should try them because they are there, for the same reason we go skiing, because the mountains are there covered in snow. I'm posting this because it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about and there are newbs reading this and getting confused.
Please don't be upset, offended or pissed off with this post. Anyone. Yes it's harsh but this rubbish has got to stop. If you are giving advise on something you know nothing about please add the necassary caveats.
I like the 8000, although I haven't skied the XL I have skied the AT and DP so I'm sure the XL is a great ski. And it sure sounds like it suits your skiing. Be cool. Have a good winter skiing 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm not really part of this argument, bit it's spread onto "my" thread so I'm going to chime in. I'm generally with Parlor on the idea that 80mm underfoot is not "fat" and that truly fat skis are a lot more versatile than people seem to think. However, I do think that predictability/familiarity are very important aspects of a ski's performance, particularly if you are using them in situations where an unexpected response from the ski could prove dangerous. I've not skied with JT, but this seems to be the case with some of the things he does.
Ultimately, people should choose the kit they feel comfortable with. There is a bit in Anselm Baud's guide to Mont Blanc on skis where Baud talks about a debate he had with his son about his son's plans to do the Mallory route on the Aiguille du Midi on lightweight touring kit. Baud junior ignored his dad and did it on lighweight gear. If I was going to do something half as scary as that, I'd choose the strongest kit I could find - but that's the point - choose what you are comfortable with
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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parlor,
And there's me thinking you were ok and we just got into a misunderstanding on some past thread.
I don't particualrly like the tone but I'm not too offended, I don't know you from Adam and the more you bang on
the less I want to. And I think it is a bit rich for one who advocates the skis he did in another post. Not exactly appropriate, but hey, I let it go and the poster came to his own conclusion, which wasn't yours as it happens.
Put a sock in it once in a while you sound like someone with too much time on their hands until they get to the mountains
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Arno,
No arguement there at all..
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You know it makes sense.
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To a degree I agree with Parlor (sorry JT). I've asked JT if he has skied anything wider than an 80mm ski before and have never understood why he continued to give advice on skis he hasn't skied.
Having said that I suspect skier size/weight comes into play here. I've got a pair of 166cm long 90mm wide ski and tried them in a 186cm, after a morning of skiing the trees I was knackered. Arno is no lightweight and I suspect Parlor too. The Dynastar Legend Pros and explosives would probably be too much for me too, when I'm tired I make even more mistakes. I'm 22 kg lighter than Arno and probably get as much if not more float from an 80mm ski than a heavyweight gets from a 90+mm ski (think Physics man did some clever calcs on this once but I can't find the link). A softer 80mm ski might not give me the ear to ear grin ( ) from blasting across windblown crud on the stiffer 90mm wide skis though. An 80mm ski might be the right ski for JT though.
At the end of the day we all have different shapes, sizes, weights and styles. The only true proof of the pudding is in the eating. If newbies here want to get into the offpiste I'd say try a soft but wide powder ski (e.g. Pocket Rocket) and get a couple of off-piste lessons.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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parlor, JT is a very good skier! Yes -he is slim.
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Poster: A snowHead
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DB,
I don't despute the virtues of a wide ski. This all started when someone who described themselves as an intermediate skier wanted advice on a ski for piste 80% and off piste 20%. I've tried to stay within the confines of the question and I try to say what works for me if thats any help to the user. Now it has all got silly and I had two spats with this guy and the tone he uses is better suited for the other forum he probably came from. I think this is all too antagonistic and I am not the only one he has been involved with in the last few days. If you can be bothered read through some of the other threads over thge past few days and see what the motive is. Maybe he thinks it is a game. I don't mind the debate and you and I have disagreed before but it stayed cordial as far as I am concerned.
And for the record on a hardpack day I would go for a slalom ski, not much point in anything else here as far as I'm concerned. On a deep snow day I'll go upto 80mm - so far - and if I am on a route that needs a lot of thought I will be on the ski that I know works for me in whatever conditions I get. I seem to talk about what I would do and want in the above, no..?
I really don't think the above and some of the other stuff is justified on what is a friendly forum. I wonder how many people have been put off by this and that can hardly be good IMV.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| there are many people reading these boards that are forming opinions from your dribble. |
As there are yours. At the end of the day, they are forming an opinion from someone elses opinion. Which is completely stupid. Go ski it and form your own opinion. And parlor, can you please stop turning every ski-related thread into an argument? It's getting very tiring...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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parlor, I have read most of your posts recently. I'm very soon gonna give up, there is only so much crap about fat skis and thin skis I can put up with.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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parlor, your post above to JT crossed the boundary IMHO, and any "newbs" or neutral observers (like me) are going to think you're a nasty piece of work whose advice is not to be trusted. I really hope that's not the case, and if you don't want that to happen, please be a bit more considerate.
For what it's worth, JT, Arno and DB are all posters who I tend to like/trust based on previous posts, and yet they have different opinions on fat skis, expressed non-agressively. Fair enough. My skis are 75mm and I have all the float I need (but I only weigh 10 stone). I board as well as ski so know all about floatation, and sometimes think the feeling of being IN the snow is better that the feeling of planing on top of the snow anyway.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DB, There is when trying to keep up with you 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I really believe that I haven't got aggressive about fat skis, just the fashion in which people, that haven't skied them, talk about them. Maybe a little over the definition of a fat ski. And certainly over the misconception that they are somehow difficult to ski. That is all.
Yes, I crossed the boundary by telling JT to shut it, but it's becoming too much. Each to their own and all that but every time I mention something like why not try a wider ski when you're testing some new skis? It's ME that gets shot down...
It's quite hard trying to have a discussion in an open forum about something as 'controversial' as fat skis, when people are chiming in with stuff that just makes the situation worse. Mark_S, this isn't the first time you've just joined a conversation about the pros & cons of something and added nothing to the conversation apart from how I'm upsetting you. Well sorry little dude, I'm not doing it on purpose. Go ahead, stop reading my posts, more importantly, in the nicest possible way, with hugs, kisses & flowers, any chance you could stop posting something, I think Eminem said it best, "if you've got nothing to say". Although it was very nice of you to agree with me. Thanks.
| Quote: |
| Go ski it and form your own opinion. |
Why are fat skis such a sore point with punters anyway? I just described as discussing fat skis as controversial. OMG.
I mentioned my wife because she is classic example of a punter skier that took to fat skis, yes I know she’s lucky because she can adjust and perfect her technique during the winter. It only took one or two days to get used to the extra width and it transformed her skiing. I know loads of people like this too. We don’t sit around analysing each others techniques, we don’t need to as it doesn’t bother us much really. Sure we have lessons whenever we can but we learn most from watching freeride videos, getting Chinese with a ski movie is the best way to improve your freeriding IMO.
The way I see it there has only been one real issue with my postings on these pages, and that was me telling an intermediate that wanted, in his own words, an all mountain ski. So I suggested some all mountain skis. Where is the problem with that?
And yes, I've taken it further. Someone described an 88mm freestyle ski as a "dedicated off piste" ski. If they are the views held by some then I really feel I need to SHOUT about it, you guys are (mostly) adults and appear (mostly) educated It's time for you to see that there is life beyond carving skis. Jesus, it took you long enough to try those! 
You're not gonna know until you've tried it. Go back to your carvers after, it makes sense to if that’s how you ski. But try something new today. I ski different skis through the winter and every time it’s like a breath of fresh air, a change is far better than a rest, especially when skiing is involved.
I have made friends on this board that I will ski with this season. And anyone who's in Verbier should PM me, I'll take you to see the sights (at your level) and you can buy me a beer, obviously as long as it's not a powder day. I'm so far from being a nasty piece of work, but I don't suffer fools gladly and I detest people that talk knowledgably about something they know nothing about. This could have been any of the, oh, one, things I actually know stuff about, err ,skiing.
I really hope I'm not alienating people, especially myself, or coming across as a ‘nasty piece of work’. Apart from the fat ski issue that SO many of you (4 or 5 people?) clearly have, look at some of my other posts. Are they not helpful? Insightful? With a little playfulness to help the day go by quicker? Did I not get drunk and amuse everyone with some innocuous rubbish? Some of my posts have left me wide open for jokes at my expense and I love it. I'm not a cyber freak but I thought that littering your posts with 'emoticons' or 'smilies' was a way of letting people know that you're being good (or maybe bad) humoured, of course if you tell someone to shut it no amount of smiling at them on the internet will help them get over it. Bad luck. No amount of justification can make up for posting things that aren't supported by personal experience either.
I'm not exactly self-effacing. I know I'm right. And yes, I have nothing better to do than to talk about skiing with a bunch of strangers on the internet until I go home, where I can ski 6 days a week for the rest of the winter.
Tis the season to be jolly, let us drop this now. JT as I said in the post, I'm sorry for telling you to shut up like that, if you keep an open mind on these things, I won't behave like a pint. Come to Verbier for a week, I'll get you doing braccage (sp?) on a pair of spatulas and tearing up the whole hill on some 105s... OK maybe 95s, whatever suits your skiing most. (Not a free invitation skiing, we're fully booked for the winter, sorry.  )
I’ve been baking today, anyone for a mince pie? Oh and forgive me?
That is all.
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parlor,
I'd love to come over to Verbier and buy you loads of beer for the privilege of your company but I've never skied with a hero like you before and so am shying away. I'd love to talk to you but feel that in awe of your presence I would have nothing to add to the conversation.
Is there any chance you could send me a signed picture of yourself in action saying something like
"DB you rock on fat skis and you're mostly educated, you ski almost half as good as me and I know what I'm talking about because I ski 6 days a week."
......... so I can put it on the wall to impress my friends.
Thanks, it would mean a lot to me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, would it be easier if I post it on the web and then poeple can download their own copies?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| parlor wrote: |
| DB, would it be easier if I post it on the web and then poeple can download their own copies? |
Great idea! .... errr not mentioning any names here but is there any way you could stop mostly uneducated people on skinny carvers from downloading it?
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parlor,
No problem.
Best wishes everyone. 
this thread is dead ?
.....should really leave that to Arno..
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You know it makes sense.
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Arno,
Sorry for trashing your thread, glad you like the skis.... see you in LG.?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, I'm seriously considering LG. Maybe we should swap skis for one run!
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Poster: A snowHead
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man, the vitriol in here is astounding. any chance you lot could cool it before my PC overheats?
Oh, for what it's worth, a ski's a ski. Some are better for certain types of snowy enjoyment and others more suited to other forms of snow-based entertainment. Some people like skinny ones, some like fat ones. Until you've tried both (which I haven't .... yet) can I suggest we all take the opinions of those who have tried a variety of cuts at face value, nothing more, nothing less.
Right, in the interests of diplomacy, I'm off to try skiing a Fatty-Pus on one foot and a 1981 Voelkl race ski on the other. How do you think I'll get on????
[edited in the interests of readability - I can expect noone to have made head nor tail of the original!]
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 14-12-05 18:11; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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zammo, probably better than your spelling attempts, please don't post on here unless you intend to reflame the Phat-v-Thin Wars - which I hope someone will.
Does no one take this skiing business seriously anymore!!!!!!
He, He, He
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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marc gledhill, it's a fair cop!
As it happens, I really hate poor spelling .... I put it down, on this occassion, to a couple (i.e. 'some') festive ales at lunchtime [hic]
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hey, at some point in the near future I really want to ski with an old-school ski on one foot and a new-school one on another...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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zammo, Are you still sking frantically in circles - clockwise on pistes, anticlockwise in the powder? Are your feet still on talking terms? Have they started fighting yet?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can I just point out that if all you d*ckheads learnt how to snowboard ... this thread would be moot ... to match its existing pointlessness. There are SOOOO many beter things to get angry about.
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Masque, like the snowboard being too narrow for our toes?
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comprex, adjust yer bindings and get on with enjoying the hill you muppet
I can't believe that there are so many people prepared to bunch their panties over +or- 50mm of ski waist. Life's way tooooooo f'nshort for this level of introspective angst!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| , JT is a very good skier! Yes -he is slim. |
It's for those reasons that I don't like him either 
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so are thin skis the way forward then?
Greg
Moved from XScream to 1080 as an "all mountain ski" and love 'em, can ski forwards/backwards with my 5 year old, hack all pistes and also off piste no worries
(needs a tongue in cheek similey)
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FAQ
