Best equipment

A snowHead

Good Morning,

I'm starting to look at purchasing Off piste safety equipment ( Shovel, Probe and Beacon) and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on what I should look out for e.g buy a metal shovel not plastic , get a digital avalanche transceiver not analogue .

I've been looking predominately on the Ortovox website at their equipment. Any thoughts on the Zoom+ Avalanche Rescue Set or would it be better to get it all separately e.g. shovel and probe off ebay for instance.

Just for info I've also booked onto both the HAT essential and advanced talks to get a better education as well as reading Bruce Tremper's Avalanche essentials book and I plan once I purchase any equipment to find some transceiver practice courses. ( I think HAT also do these)

A snowHead

Metal shovel. Digital beacon. Any old probe.

My personal preference / suggestion: Ortovox Beast; DTS Tracker I or II. The latter nice and easy to use, which is a big plus.

A bag to put probe and shovel IN. That's to say inside, not strapped on the back of so they fall off on the lift and are gone when you need them...

I'm sure it's up to you where you buy. snowsafe (dot co dot uk) also do bundles and may be worth a look. eBay - why not? So long as it's working. If you have any worries you can send it off for a service. Though then it may become less of a bargain.

But I'm sure that for every 5 snowheads reading the thread you will get 10 other opinions... wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I went all ortovox but shopped around and got some good deals. Ortovox beast shovel is a good bit of kit I wouldn't bother with plastic ones. Any probe wants to be 240 cm or more I went with the 240 light pfa and transceivers digital 3 antenna models are the way to go.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

thanks for the advice. I have purchased the Ortovox ladies 18L cross rider backpack so and there is a loop inside for the shovel I believe.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

this may be a silly question, but do you need to go on any course to learn the best way to dig someone out if they are caught in an avalanche ?

You'll need to Register first of course.

Yeah I had an ortovox 18l pack and the one compartment fits all your emergency gear, only sold mine as it wasn't quite big enough for day hikes and the straps were a little uncomfortable when hiking with my board attached.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yeah there is a certain way to do it I imagine the avi talks will cover it.

After all it is free

"any old probe"- received wisdom from having attended several training/briefing sessions over the years - is that you need _at least_ 2m, ideally 3m, probe, and it needs to be nice and wide and stiff (no sniggering at the back!). Oh, and it needs to be quick and easy to assemble wearing gloves.
Ortovox make good ones... (just read francium's reply - totally agree)

The spindly one I got from BCA is 'barely adequate', as it has a fiddly nut/wheel arrangement to tighten up, and in a stressed situation it wastes time.

If you're buying this stuff cos you might need to use it, then assume you'll actually need to use it, and buy appropriately.

Metal shovel. Plastic (in whatever form) is widely regarded as useless.

Transceiver - 3 antenna - start with the Mammut Element - tbh, there's not a lot of reason to choose anything different now.

Pay for/attend some training. Read some of the links in the sticky, particularly on digging....

Agree re probe - spindly bca one useless
If you're going to carry one it needs to work

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I just bought the Element, after looking at all the others it offers the best bang for your buck, I paid £226 from Holland for it. My mk1 BCA Tracker is now kept for lending out to friends. Carbon probes save a little weight and the instant lock works great, but as said, practice and then practice more, and develop the mindset of always watching the other members in your party and thinking "What would I do if a slide took them right now".

I used to have a knurled nut BCA probe, it's about 25 seconds to deploy which is not that much, but I now prefer the flick out and pull options.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I have the Ortovox 320 probe, Kodiak Shovel (prefer it to the beast, but thats just my preference), the Free rider 18 and 24 packs and the 3+ transceiver (I like it because as a newbie I found it so easy to use)

snow reports

Avi course's are really worth while.

Go for a metal shovel & probe and as far as beacon's go I use BCA!

All Beacons have pro's and con's you just need to have some idea of how your's works and get used to using it?

They can all get fairly confusing to use in certain situations, lots of practice help you with this.

Not much to add to the kit chat above, but one of the things I've found quite useful is practice at special beacon training parks in some resorts. The training I've done on various courses has been useful, but I really liked being able to play around with the number of burials and number of searchers; it definitely brought home how long a search can take if you don't think and plan carefully.

You know it makes sense.

Snow_badger this is a good thread. I'm planning to get safety gear this season. I have a Dakine 22L pack. The reason why? It was comfortable. The Ortovox ones made me feel like a hunchback! I shall take the advice about metal probes and 2.4 m shovels (or the other way round). I'm going to go with guide/instructor's transceiver again this season. They know how to use them and it's in their interest to make sure I do. That way I might be able to afford my second trip .

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

For the beacon, I use the tried and true Backcountry Access Tracker DTS Beacon. My main reason for this was that it is/has been the standard beacon the last 6 years, the buttons are big, and there are little to no adjustments to be made. My thinking is that IF I have to use this, I want to be 100% sure that it does what its supposed to. I think ppl get caught up in all the super duper features a beacon can offer, when the reality is, if you have to use it, you will be bricking it and adrenaline will be powering through you...keep it simple.

A snowHead

A snowHead

I have got two full sets for sale, pm me if you want to know more.... Arva beacon etc....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Last week I bought 2x BCA Tracker 2 complete with 240 cm probe and shovel with extendable handle for €250 (£200) each from Sport Conrad. No doubt someone will come along having purchased same for half that price, but I think this is a very good deal for a starter set.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Ill keep looking for the right transceiver. As@Lilledonmarco, has mentioned I just want something that if the worse were to happen, and the adrenaline is pumping, something simple is what Im going to need.

Sounds like an Ortovox prove over 240cm could be the way to go. As for shovel, I'm assuming something that is wide enough that I can get my snowboard boot on it and apply a decent amount of pressure without it slipping off ?

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@snow_badger, spot on re shovel it needs to have a flat top to take a boot, also check it fits in your bag.

After all it is free

Bit confused if the shovel needs to be able to fit my snowboard boot on top or not by the last posts by @jbob, and @chrisJersey,

I'm planning on attending the HAT beeper training at the end of Nov but this will be with a borrowed transceiver most likely.

I live very close to Lockwoods in Leamington, so I may take my backpack there and have a look at their shovels to see if they will fit in ok

when you look at a shovel think about how you like to hold it/ whether you where gloves or mits. I went for the ortovox kodiak because i like the enclosed handles and its nifty features where as a lot of people like the beast - the beast has a t-bar handle. my shovel and probe fit nicely into the seperate compartment in the Freerider 18 pack i have. Have a chat with tim at snow shepherd but i believe all ortovox shovels and probes fit into their packs.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@snow_badger, if the snow is hard then like a garden spade an avalanche shovel might need some help from your foot, not easy if the top of the shovel is curved.. What condition the casualty will be in is another question.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Fortunately it was when trying my BCA probe in the Les Arcs ARVA park that I found out how rubbish it was !
It was bending every time I tried to use it ..... yes snow very trodden and compact ... but have seen similar hard compact snow (and worse) in real life avalanches.

i think ill go with the ortovox then

You know it makes sense.

In case anyone is interested I found this review of shovels from a few years ago. Whilst the models may not be up to date I believe the specifics and characteristics of what should be looked for in a good shovel remains valid

http://www.voile.com/AvalancheVol86_54-60.pdf

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Another vote for Sport Conrad just bought my son Arva transceiver, shovel and probe, 210 Euros, big saving on UK prices, if your not a climber or Alpiniste it's worth at least reading avalanche reports in the resort every day, and knowing how to use the transceiver and probe. You can translate them on google if you don't speak the language.

A snowHead

Finding one buried transciever is fairly easy with modern digital kit. Practice with more than one burial if you can - it is really tricky and needs practice.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

not sure if I've ever got past 2 meters in the snow pack in a post ave path before, but i guess you can
but if you wanna be the biggest swinging probe... this is what you need...

http://www.avatech.com/#

get it all done before.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@Super Steezy, that's an amazing bit of tech, very very much for the snow pack professional!

And I'm sure (hopefully) you appreciate that in essence that is not a probe that is used for searching Puzzled

Think I might have to do a write up of my week long course I did back last Jan, which was 5 mornings of classroom, 5 afternoons of in the field followed by an hour or so back in the classroom most days and then the final day of a very very stressful, adrenalin fueled examination which really was quite intense vs normal transceiver practice.

Course cost I seem to recall was nigh on 600 Euro was that an investment?

How many people on here would choose to do that vs a week off piste with a couple of hours transceiver practice ?

And what's depressing is now trying to remember how to interpret many of the graphs that are on the above link as I was compiling them every day and examined on them rolling eyes

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@snow_badger, here are two interesting resources and I have received feedback that people have found the first resource very useful - if you follow the interactive training through to its conclusion it shows you how to search and dig and I think the basic techniques will apply to most transceivers, FWIW the Ortovox Zoom + is very easy to use - that's what I bought for my kids.

Links are here:
http://www.mammut.ch/barryvoxtraining (as mentioned above I think its useful if you have any brand of transceiver), and if you ever wondered why initially the transceivers take you in circles the answer is here: http://www.fsavalanche.org/encyclopedia/avalanche_transceiver.htm

You'll need to Register first of course.

Also try the Avalanche Tutorial at the bottom of the page here:

http://avalanche.org/index.php

Very succinct and easy to follow.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

As technological advances improve transceivers, is it better to hire new ones in resort rather than buy for use only a few days a year?

After all it is free

No - get your own and make sure you know how to use it ..... resort rentals will likely be a wide variety older kit too as I would think there is relatively little demand .... as we've all got our own Toofy Grin

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Have there been any recent technological advances that have measurably improved transceiver performance? Seems like its mostly been about fiddling with secondary features since we got 3-antenna digital devices.

Help!!

Best equipment

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Off Piste