 Poster: A snowHead
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No non emergency appointments with the GP until after the New Year so does anyone have any idea what this might be.
I have just started getting a sporadic pain directly be low my right knee cap. The knee is not swollen or tender to the touch but occasionally I get a pain that is more like a carpet burn than a stabbing pain, only when lying down and rolling onto my side.
Any ideas what it could be?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Probably just patellar tendonitis. Shouldn't hold you back
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Posidrive wrote: |
| ... only when lying down and rolling onto my side. |
Don't lie down and roll onto your side...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@peanuthead is probably on point. Get a sports massage on your quads and hips or a foam roller (or a hockey/lacrosse/cricket ball for the side of your hips). Also try and stretch quads and glutes as much as possible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Posidrive wrote: |
No non emergency appointments with the GP until after the New Year so does anyone have any idea what this might be.
I have just started getting a sporadic pain directly be low my right knee cap. The knee is not swollen or tender to the touch but occasionally I get a pain that is more like a carpet burn than a stabbing pain, only when lying down and rolling onto my side.
Any ideas what it could be? |
A bit more info would help.
Some thoughts that may help.
If it has been a short duration of a week or two it may be self limiting.
You could do stretches and local foam roller but if you are going to spend money on it you should be getting a diagnosis before spending money on "blind treatments"
Cheapest way to get a diagnosis will be via GP/ referral onwards, but may take a while.
A good lower limb physio should be able to give you a reasonably accurate diagnosis. You can then discuss what treatments would work.
Incidentally a scan comes some way down the list .
Jonathan Bell
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks all for the comments, much appreciated. Looks like a trip to the quack next week is in order, just in case. Cost is not an issue, I currently have a strong dislike for my employer but at least we get private medical.
I am still perplexed. The internet has far too much info that just confused the non medically trained but after looking up patellar tendonitis it does look like that patellar tendon may be the culprit. I suppose that I was really dumb today and after a nasty shock getting on the scales after post Christmas excess I hammered the bike in the gym for an hour between 110 and 140 rpm without the slightest twinge. Now I'm on the sofa typing this I have had a couple of incidents of the pain although it is nothing dramatic.
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| Masque wrote: |
@Posidrive, wait till you hit 60 sweety . . . listening to the crackle from yer knees whilst getting off the morning bog visit is a warm up and warning for the day's tele . . . did you know that Ibuprofen works best as a suppository . . ?
@Jonathan Bell,  |
I'm 56 so not far to go then:)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Posidrive, the pain/boogerd curve is exponential . . . your journey has barely begun Grasshopper 
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| Posidrive wrote: |
| Masque wrote: |
@Posidrive, wait till you hit 60 sweety . . . listening to the crackle from yer knees whilst getting off the morning bog visit is a warm up and warning for the day's tele . . . did you know that Ibuprofen works best as a suppository . . ?
@Jonathan Bell, |
I'm 56 so not far to go then:) |
Just to clarify on patella tendon problems
Tendinitis is a brief pain and inflammation related to an acute injury.
If it lasts beyond a few weeks its becomes patella tendinopathy also called tendinosis.
To be a bit pedantic tendinitis is often a term used to incorrectly describe tendinopathy. The same error can be seen in scientific papers and
presentations so it's misuse is widespread. It is however important to be a bit pedantic because
genuine tendinitis can be helped by rest and then a gradual reintroduction of loading ( exercise)
Tendinosis or tendinitis doesn't occur frequently in 56 years olds but it can do. Patella tendon problems are usually related to a sudden increase in
sport/training.
The single most common cause of pain at the front of the knee, at any age group, is pain from the patella ( kneecap)
and the surrounding tissue such as fat pad/ retinaculum ( ligaments).
Just to clarify on "crackle from your knees" @masque i suspect is talking about the normal aches, pains that come from the joy of remaining active which simply serve to remind us that if you don't use it you etc.....
Jonathan Bell
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Jonathan Bell, just to pull you up regarding definition of tendinitis-
My understanding is suffix -itis is used to denote inflammation, without regard to duration. This may be brief (acute) or ongoing (chronic). If briefer than certain time period then it is considered acute. E.g acute sinusitis is inflammation of sinuses lasting less than 3 months; chronic sinusitis lasts for more than 3 months
-opathy denotes any disease state. This could be due to inflammation or any other cause. E.g. neuropathy may be due to inflammation, microvascular disease, macrovascular disease, demyelination, nutritional deficiency, metabolic or endocrine cause, etc etc.
So for patellar tendinitis, most skiers will probably have chronic inflammation as cause, and it is quite accurate to say (chronic) tendinitis. Although if they had degenerative disease they would be more accurately encompassed by tendinopathy.
Of course medical terminology is far from universal. Different societies may use different definitions which can also be subject to regional and even inter- institutional variation.
However I am not an Orthopedic so maybe chronic tendinitis is considered to generally have concomitant non inflammatory pathology so please correct me if I am wrong
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
@Jonathan Bell, just to pull you up regarding definition of tendinitis-
My understanding is suffix -itis is used to denote inflammation, without regard to duration. This may be brief (acute) or ongoing (chronic). If briefer than certain time period then it is considered acute. E.g acute sinusitis is inflammation of sinuses lasting less than 3 months; chronic sinusitis lasts for more than 3 months
-opathy denotes any disease state. This could be due to inflammation or any other cause. E.g. neuropathy may be due to inflammation, microvascular disease, macrovascular disease, demyelination, nutritional deficiency, metabolic or endocrine cause, etc etc.
So for patellar tendinitis, most skiers will probably have chronic inflammation as cause, and it is quite accurate to say (chronic) tendinitis. Although if they had degenerative disease they would be more accurately encompassed by tendinopathy.
Of course medical terminology is far from universal. Different societies may use different definitions which can also be subject to regional and even inter- institutional variation.
However I am not an Orthopedic so maybe chronic tendinitis is considered to generally have concomitant non inflammatory pathology so please correct me if I am wrong |
 I think you can rest assured that Jonathan Bell know exactly what he is talking about. He is the best orthoaedic surgeon ever!
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You know it makes sense.
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@Samerberg Sue, @genepi, he does say 'correct me if I'm wrong'. He isn't 'giving a lesson', he's setting out his understanding and the basis of that understanding
Personally I think its OK to challenge if one has a genuine belief about something = call it an education of sorts. I'll also be interested in JBs reply.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| peanuthead wrote: |
@Jonathan Bell, just to pull you up regarding definition of tendinitis-
My understanding is suffix -itis is used to denote inflammation, without regard to duration. This may be brief (acute) or ongoing (chronic). If briefer than certain time period then it is considered acute. E.g acute sinusitis is inflammation of sinuses lasting less than 3 months; chronic sinusitis lasts for more than 3 months
-opathy denotes any disease state. This could be due to inflammation or any other cause. E.g. neuropathy may be due to inflammation, microvascular disease, macrovascular disease, demyelination, nutritional deficiency, metabolic or endocrine cause, etc etc.
So for patellar tendinitis, most skiers will probably have chronic inflammation as cause, and it is quite accurate to say (chronic) tendinitis. Although if they had degenerative disease they would be more accurately encompassed by tendinopathy.
Of course medical terminology is far from universal. Different societies may use different definitions which can also be subject to regional and even inter- institutional variation.
However I am not an Orthopedic so maybe chronic tendinitis is considered to generally have concomitant non inflammatory pathology so please correct me if I am wrong |
The terminology surrounding tendon problems is confusing. Tendinitis has historically been used as a catch all term for any pain arising from the
tendon.
In the last decade it has become apparent that inflammation ( denoted by -itis) is relatively rare in combination with tendinosis.
Medical terminology is universal but that doesn't stop incorrect use occurring.
Perhaps the most important reason to get the diagnosis between tendinitis and tendinosis correct is that the former requires immediate unloading
(rest) to try and prevent it becoming tendinosis which can be a very difficult condition to treat. I was involved in some of the very early studies on
using blood for treatment and we got some good results using a cell therapy.
Many medical and healthcare practitioners misuse the terminology which doesn't help.
Hope that clarifies the position but try this paper if you are interested in further reading the jargon isn't too bad
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312643/
Jonathan Bell
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Excellent paper @Jonathan Bell, thanks for posting. My understanding of tendinitis / -osis was all out. Clear as day now. Regards
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FAQ
can't fart without freaking out and a visit to da Quack 
that made me giggle! 
