 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What will this mean for skiers in the satellite resorts like Nendaz? Double charges?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Our chalet-hotel booking in Verbier for 2015 was cancelled because of the minimum wage ruling. We considered other options in Verbier, but with the lift pass confusion we decided to go elsewhere.
We love Verbier. It will be the first season in 10 years that we haven't been there. They do seem to be shooting themselves in the foot at the moment  .
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1556garyt, I guess there will be some sort of supplement, but there's no clarity yet. The cantonal government has appointed a mediator and all parties have agreed to take part in the mediation, but they need to move quickly. See alan empty's post below. People are voting with their ski boots.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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alan empty, Steve Sparks, I don't deny that it's a cock-up and the problems should have been resolved behind closed doors so that the brand was not damaged - which it has been. But it's important to see this in a wider context - skiing requires a very complex and expensive technology base. While many resorts gained grants to expand systems during the 70s and 80s - local development grants, national assistance in France - the income barely covers maintenance and keeping the place open...there's just no surplus of the kind that allows the level of investment which is needed. Resort companies are fighting to keep open, and in this case they have been fighting each other to keep open. Not enough people go skiing; there's over-capacity in Europe; and the weather has been undependable. Old lifts are being stripped out all over the place, and not replaced. We may see a real restructuring of the way we ski - less skiing huge systems, with an emphasis on distance, and more skiing limited resorts, with an emphasis on skill development.
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valais2, I don't see how disconnecting resorts that are currently linked (albeit badly!) really helps? Indeed the top French resorts (PdS/Paradiski/3-Vallees) are managing to come more closely together not less? De-linking the satellite resorts from Verbier (which has the real draw of Mont Fort area, Col de Gentianes, Vallon D'Arby etc) will hurt the satellites more than Verbier!
BTW, are there any new lift improvements in the Nendaz/Siviez/Verbier areas for this coming winter?
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1556garyt, ..er...it doesn't help. They are arguing about what proportion of a 4 Valley pass goes to which Commune. And since they haven't resolved it, Verbier has had to announce that it is not working in conjunction with the satellites in the way they have since the resort-wide pass was established in 2006.
http://www.thelocal.ch/20140624/switzerlands-largest-ski-area-breaks-up
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My understanding was that historically costs of the Mont Fort & Gentianes cable cars were shared between Tele-Verbier + Tele-Nendaz. So makes sense that Tele Nendaz can also include Mont Fort on their pass - Plus crucially the Siviez chair for return.
So actually the small guy (Nendaz + Printze sector) still has a good ski area with some of the best hors-piste ?
At the end of the day there can be no winners from this debacle - only losers....
I still think sanity will prevail and they will sort out a last minute deal.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The canton have appointed a mediator as reported in Le Nouvelliste http://www.lenouvelliste.ch/fr/valais/valais/en-attendant-la-mediation-498-1324680
4Vallées NEGOTIATIONS: JACQUES Melly OMBUDSMAN
State Councilor Jacques Melly is the mediator of 4Vallées portfolio. Like his predecessor Jean-Jacques Rey-Bellet for the old agreement, the Minister of Transport will conduct early negotiations to try to reach an agreement between Téléthyon, Télénendaz, Téléveysonnaz and Téléverbier ski 4Vallées about the product.
State Councilor PDC was accepted by representatives of the four companies. For now, the date of the first meeting has not yet been set, although everyone agrees that an agreement should be reached by early September not too prétériter season upcoming ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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in the mean time there must be some risk to anyone advertising their hotel, chalet, apartment as being in the 4 vallees if the mediation fails. could be some form of misrepresentation. most websites have not been updated to show the correct lift pass data or piste maps. a big problem as peak booking season is about to begin...
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You know it makes sense.
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Steve Sparks, spot on. there are a ton of websites to be updated if this doesnt resolve. I suppose i was just envisaging some angry punters if they werent told at the time of booking that there was uncertainty. judging by markymark the client is then off like a startled rabbit. a lot of my mates here have places in Nendaz and i know they are worried about booking levels for next season if they lose people who do not book because there is uncertainty. in my valley (Grimentz/Zinal) the lift companies have only just merged upon agreeing to link the 2 valleys with the new lift - dread to even try to think if they could unwind what is a single lift company back into 2...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Am told by friends at the Ski school in Nendaz that the main issue is the placement of a new lift from sion to thyon and its potential impact on veysonnaz......
We have a place in les collins so praying for a definitive resolution and perhaps some investment from televeysonnaz to improve the terrible drags between siviez and thyon
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Poster: A snowHead
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So I emailed TeleNendaz to berate them about the abolition of the Printz ski area, the break-up of the 4-Vallees and the increase price for Espace Mont Fort (compared to Printz). I also asked if there are any improvements in the Telenedaz lift infrastructure this summer, particularly on the Prarion side of the mountain?
Response as follows:
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Thank you for your e-mail.
The break-up of the 4-Vallees is not definitive, there are still big hopes to find a solution for this winter. But given the situation, we had to find a solution in order to offer a product to our clients. Today we have the opportunity to offer you the Mont-Fort for CHF 6.- more than Printse. Keep in mind that if the 4 Vallees is negotiated, Espace Mont-Fort might include Thyon.
Regarding improvements, we can inform you that the Tortin lift will be equipped with bubbles to protect you from wind and cold this winter. The situation about Prarion is more difficult because of ecological problems with the WWF regarding the use of snow canons. This explains why we cannot always guarantee snow in this area. We are willing to find a solution as soon as possible.
We hope to see you this winter in Nendaz and that you will enjoy our slopes. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurray for a wind shield on Tortin. TBH losing Thyon etc really wouldn't be end of the world if I'm looking from a purely selfish point of view. Apart from the chalet noveli vin chaud. Damn forgot about that
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AJD, Thanks for putting up this link, I shall put on Rhone FM and see if they're saying anything.
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The last couple of weeks the local press reported that a mediator had been appointed to try and resolve the issue! Its all about money at the end of the day.
Basically, the issue is with the middle of the 4 valleys, where the long painful 1912 button lifts are still in operation, and they are demanding ~14M from Verbier in backpayments. Verbier obviously doesn't want to pay for the use of the 1912 button lifts at that price!
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The best solution for me would be for Televerbier to buy out these peroquial locals and properly modernise and invest in the infrastructure across the region (as they have donee in Verbier and Thyon!)! Doubt it will happen though...
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According to 'Le Nouvelliste' this morning, the Four Valley ski area is saved, it looks like all all four societies have signed up as partners for the next 18 years. Phew!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Phew!
Thanks for the update.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good news, albeit I'm spending my hard earned elsewhere next season, booked to go back to Arlberg based on the uncertainty, was looking seriously at 4V via Bruson but as a 2V option this was a no-go, another year......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Arlberg is lovely, my favourite (after 4 Valles obvs)!
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Swissie, 
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You know it makes sense.
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really didn't think the native Swiss pragmatism was going to get in the way of making more money. Glad it seems to have been resolved.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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under a new name, it really was a no-brainer, Jacques Melly, the mediator seems to have done a good job.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Good news indeed, have I read it correctly that compensation has been paid or agreed with Televeysonnaz to start the new lift from Sion to Thyon direct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is some of talk of compensation, can't see how that will happen. As for the new lift, majorly ambitious, I think it would be a good thing, there is scepticism locally, I think it would be amazing if it happened, it would change the whole structure of the area, primarily traffic. Lets see.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I guess we should be thankful for the agreement, the new lift would be fantastic if it comes off though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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New lift would be good, although I still feel that better links between the 4v resorts is the key to improving the area.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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More people into the Thyon/Veysonnaz side?? Horrendous queues as it is and all those crappy drags and ancient lifts. No thanks. Need to change about 7 other existing lifts first. Might relieve pressure on car parking but no other benefit??
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Nickski, I have skied the Printze sector at Christmas, New Year, half term and Easter, never had a horrendous queue in the league of Avoriaz or elsewhere. Granted the surface lifts are not for everyone but it does keep the area quiet.
You are correct that Tele Nendaz needs to invest in the lifts at Les Chottes, there are a couple of button lifts that are too long, especially the double button that cannot be avoided if you want to ski between areas, which is where the worst queue I have experienced has been around 20 min at half term. There is also the last two man chair in that area as well. They have made a start with replacing the two man chair at Siviez with the new Gondola so here's hoping.
Telethyon has an investment plan to replace more of the existing drag lifts with chairs, not sure of the timescales but they have been upgrading lifts every couple of years recently.
You are missing some cracking runs in the Printze sector, the red down to Veysonnaz has to be one of my favorites, long and lots of different sub routes to take.
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Great news that common sense has prevailed and saved the area.
Now if they can just replace that horrendous long double drag that connects the Siviez area out to the Printze area it would be appreciated as they are a killer as I'm getting older.
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Gilberts Fridge,
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the red down to Veysonnaz has to be one of my favorites, long and lots of different sub routes to take.
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And the Piste de L'Ours takes some beating too 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm still puzzled as to why Téléndaz hasn't uprated the awful connection from Prarion up to Plan du Feu . The new bubble from Siviez to PdF is a huge improvement over the ancient chair and drag it replaces.
They're still expanding Nendaz as a resort, and yet the connection to the outside world must surely deter people from returning?
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msej449, The ancient larches that hang out down there are protected and limit the scope for snow making and new lifts.
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