 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh, and I should add, a RESPECTED shop in Utah (the place where they get 500" of powder every year), classifies FAT skis as follows:
Super Fat > 100mm Waist (Here are some examples)
Fat > 88mm Waist (here)
Mid Fat >75mm (here)
So, to them, anything over 75mm and you are in the Fat Camp.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They will get there eventually, we can't expect a nation with only 200-300 years history to evolve like a continent whom have thousands. Desperate evidence. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't see why there are such discussions on fat vs thin - each to their own. Everyone has their own preferences 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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mark_s, I don't even see it as a fat vs skinny thing. Each has their place. In history Skis are getting fatter and i'm trying to get people to have a little go so they can tell me they don't like it and not just spout rubbish like the reviews from Ski + Board magazine...
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, sorry, most of the questions have been from people saying "I mainly ski on piste, but like to try off piste occassionally", and you've immediately said that means they need a 80mm+ width ski, because they are obviously "all mountain skiers".
And you've even confessed that you don't own anything narrower than a mid-fat, so how can you say that something narrower could not be a possible solution? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yoy're right again foxy, my speed 63's that i ski 40% of the winter could be considered fat in you part of the world. Read on. You need to ask why it's just occasionally off-piste? Poor technique, narrow skis? Try this i cry, 80mm underfoot suddenly it's a breeze and off you go.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, no, you'll probably find it's only occassional trips off-piste because the conditions aren't there, and also because there's plenty of fun to be had skiing on-piste.
Would you recommend a complete beginner goes out on 80mm + on day one, on piste?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wear The Fox Hat, you've taken this too far or maybe too personally. I know you own some fat skis so I can't quite see what your problem is. I know that not everyone who skies aspires to be a off piste huckster but there are so many that do. I'm sure you'll agree that there are lost of intermediate skiers that are stuck on a plateau and without serious coaching will stay there forever. I also know there are many skiers that are happy to stay there. These wider skis are tools to let people have fun...
Take snowboarding, there are so many people that like it. The main reason? They find it easier than skiing, also on a snowboard they can reach other parts of the hill that they couldn't get to before (indecently I think this can be a bad thing if you don't have the skills, knowledge & experience to be skiing proper back country but that's not what we're talking about). There are lots of skiers that don't want to take up snowboarding. And there are lots of skiers that don't want to try a "wider" ski. I don't care too much what you label stuff, in my book PE, Prophet 80 & a hundred other skis that I think people should try aren't fat that fat (compared to a spat, a bro model, whatever...). Wide skis are similar to snowboards because they open the hill up to people, especially the <4 weekers, they might not have the technique to do it on "narrower" skis, so let them have fun on something a little more stable.
I understood the original post to be someone looking for a ski that will make off piste more fun without sacrificing piste skiing. Some people define this as freeride skis, some as all-mountain skis. Whatever.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, no, you'll probably find it's only occassional trips off-piste because the conditions aren't there, and also because there's plenty of fun to be had skiing on-piste.
Would you recommend a complete beginner goes out on 80mm + on day one, on piste? |
Nope. But with no preconceptions, skiing will be as hard or as easy as it is no matter how wide the ski. You're starting to clutch at straws now my friend, writing an opinion is seemingly more difficult than reading one.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, no, you'll probably find it's only occassional trips off-piste because the conditions aren't there, and also because there's plenty of fun to be had skiing on-piste.
Would you recommend a complete beginner goes out on 80mm + on day one, on piste? |
Nope. But with no preconceptions, skiing will be as hard or as easy as it is no matter how wide the ski. You're starting to clutch at straws now my friend, writing an opinion is seemingly more difficult than reading one. |
Not really clucthing at straws, just thinking back to the other thread where a guy said he wanted to buy a pair of skis, and gave very little indication of his ability, and your immediate response was Karmas, so, why the change of attitude now?
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You know it makes sense.
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parlor, if I'm taking it too personally, then why did you feel the need to start the other thread with what you consider fat skis?
Personally, I believe that if someone is looking for a 1 ski quiver, then given the current skis available on the market, I would be recommending skis with a waist around 75mm. That will give most skiers a reasonable amount of float off piste, while not impeding skills on piste. For the majority of holiday skiers, that will allow them to have the fun and learning experience they want.
(BTW, I know you've stated how you've been skiing for 24 years, etc, I haven't bothered to list my qualifications, as I'm not taking this personally)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seeing as you're both going round in circles and getting nowhere, can I suggest something? Wear The Fox Hat has stated his opinion. parlor has stated his opinion. Now you could just leave it and stop arguing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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parlor, sure is fun, I can't wait for SZK to tell me more about the Nordicas...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist this:
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OK serious question from relative newbie,
Where in the 'fat v thin' argument does a ski with sidecut 116 - 78- 105 fit? (174 length)
I am definitely a 'Holiday Skier', most at home on piste, but with an urge to sample off-piste when a (not too challenging) opportunity presents itelf. I wouldn't have more than one set of ski's so I thought this profile would provide the 'all round' capability that I was after. Was I astute, or deluded?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AxsMan, in my opinion, you were astute.
In fact, I'd go as far as to quote myself from earlier in this thread (just to make sure I'm not contradicting myself)
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Personally, I believe that if someone is looking for a 1 ski quiver, then given the current skis available on the market, I would be recommending skis with a waist around 75mm. That will give most skiers a reasonable amount of float off piste, while not impeding skills on piste. For the majority of holiday skiers, that will allow them to have the fun and learning experience they want.
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AxsMan, now, without being too harsh you were astute if you tested some different skis, at least one of which should have been over 85mm! And deluded if you didn't. 
Not really. 
Believe it or not, I'm not against narrower waist skis. I'm trying to get some of the more conservative  to understand there is life beyond the Metrons & B2s, and that 88mm isn't really *that* fat. So if you want to have as much fun as possible all over the mountain then getting an all mountain ski with a little extra underfoot has to be the way to go...
If you, or anyone else, is an intermediate skier, 'bog standard British holiday maker type' intermediate skier you are not going to have the skills it takes to ski the crud, windblown, slop and all the other variable conditions that you get when skiing off piste. And so if you want to make your life easier by getting some mid-fats then you're using your brain and your feet to ski.
Skiing 80% on piste & 20% off piste is a marketing term for trying to sell you a B2 . What does that mean? You only ski when it's pow? Or you'll ski the 20% off piste whatever the conditions? I don't really get it. Since moving to a 95mm ski as my true everyday ski I see off piste conditions as pow and non-pow. Any non-pow conditions I just blast through or over. ( I remember the pow though )
It makes sense to get the ski that most suits the way you ski and the conditions you ski in. However which came first? The ski or where you ski? A narrower ski dictates more fun on piste, less fun off piste. With the right tools this could be different...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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parlor, limitations of forum communications and all that, I believe I understand what you are trying to say.
Consider, however, that
- new plate technology will allow better balance for skiers on skis with large tip and large tail area without necessarily large waist (e.g. Head XP100, Snowrider, Nordica Hot Rod, and, yes, Metrons)
- increased waist size, as discussed in the tipping path thread, increases the ankle travel distance to fully edged; at the same time beginning carvers already have trouble having patience enough for the ski to engage the turn at the top and wind up forcing the bottom instead.
So, consider the possibilty that footprint will be the girth of 2010. I believe you've even intimated so with the AK LAB.
PJ '16 mm lift for 95mm waist'
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, good points. And therefore, for a rounded ski test, one should test a variety of skis, focusing on different dimensions and flex patterns. Not four or five skis that are prima facie the same thing?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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parlor, what would you suggest?
Something in the sub 70, then a couple in the 70-80 (I'm thinking B2 and Hot Rod, or similar - i.e. similar waist, but different shape), and something in the 80+
And for those who are not stuck in the mould of "must be wide" or "must be narrow", this is what I use...
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Just been looking...
Rossignol B2: Sidecut: 116-78-105; Radius: 16.6m (174)
Nordica Hot Rod (TF or N): Sidecut: 123-78-108; Radius 15.8m (170)
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You know it makes sense.
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Skis are sooo pretty. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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parlor,
Won't be going off piste without a guide, (I may be foolish, but not that foolish!), but thanx for the warnings anyway!
Wear The Fox Hat, Nice skis, if I knew where it was I'd post the 'envy' smiley.
Oh and you got the B2's right, that's exactly what's printed on my tails.
I know (somehow I can just tell ) that the Fat v Thin 'discussion' is a long running one, but for relative newbs like me, both 'sides' are interesting and I for one get a lot out of listening to the debate.
Cheers!
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Poster: A snowHead
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AxsMan, pleased you got something out of it! I could discuss it 'til the cows go home (around May I understand). Whilst I promote the cause I don't think everyone needs them, butchagotta try 'em...
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FAQ
we were both having fun, weren't we foxy? I love fox hunting, it's a great sport. 
