 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all - first post here.
My family are looking to book a week away skiing over New Year this coming winter (27th Dec '14 - 3rd Jan '15).
We have two sons, the eldest will be 5 and a half and he has already done 6 months of lessons on the dry slopes at Hillend (or Midlothian Snowsports Centre to give it's modern moniker), has been to the Snow Factor in Glasgow a few times and up to the Cairngorms/Lecht a couple of times too. Ski school for him will not be a problem.
Our youngest will not be three until the 8th January '15. He has never had a pair of skis on, but is very confident and gung-ho and he thinks that he can do anything that big brother can do. He's very sporty.
We are looking at Avoriaz, La Plagne or Flaine.
My understanding is that we may struggle to find a ski school that will take our youngest son as they all seem to cater for 3 years and over. Is there any leeway with the age restrictions at these schools ?
I have tried contacting "Village des Enfants" in Avoriaz as I have heard good things about them, but they aren't answering the phone or replying to my emails.
If we can't find a ski school, would one to one lessons be an option (sounds expensive!). What would our other options be ?
Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hello & welcome to Snowheads.
If you're considering Flaine, then have a look at Lynne Stainbrook at www.flaineskiclinic.com. He's a one man band who only does private lessons, but may be flexible about taking a nearly 3 year old. We skied with him regularly last season and improved technique dramatically, certainly helped by the fact that he is a native English speaker.
We had a chat with another of his clients whose very small children started with Lynne to get them going, before moving to ski school later. Apparently, ski school were very impressed with the standards they had achieved in a short time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Child friendly for me means short transfers and tree lined lower altitude skiing with opportunities for off ski activities. I wouldn't go to la Plagne on your list. I don't know Avoriaz but at least the resort is traffic free. Flaine - hmmmm not the main town, maybe one of the Satellites?
Pras de Lys is one of the better resorts in the area you are looking at for kids skiing IMHO although maybe lacks non ski activities.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Joy Zipper, welcome to Snowheads. does it have to be new Year? Crowded and expensive. You could take the advantage when your eldest is only just starting school to go out of holidays, which will be much cheaper and in many resorts ski lessons (group and private) cheaper. In my admittedly limited experience of 2 year olds on skis they can really enjoy it but do need 1 to 1 attention.
The resort where I have an apartment - Les Saisies - is very child friendly and has cheap private lessons (especially in low season) but no English speaking groups. There are a couple of free, and gentle, beginner rope tows where you could probably do as much with your 2 year old as he really wants to do, without having to pay for lessons. Ideally you need somewhere like the spot in my picture, where you can park within a few yards, with a nearby warm public loo and café option and not far from your accommodation. Traipsing round with small children and skis isn't a lot of fun and I wouldn't want to get on a bus, either.
In the picture my grand-daughter (with her dad) was 2, but like your son will be, close to 3rd birthday. She loved it, but about 30 minutes in a day was enough, then she wanted to go tobogganing.
Are you planning DIY or a tour operator? There are a lot of advantages to having a car with small children - though perhaps not at New Year when parking will be difficult.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Joy Zipper, welcome to SnowHeads  - you have a PM (top right, Send/Read Messages)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Iknow it's not one of your 3 possibles but if you are going the TO route consider Ski Peak based in Vaujany - short(ish) transfers from GVA and a good reputation for family-oriented hols. Hotel or Chalets a possibility. Cannot comment on ski school though.
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I've never been there, but got the impression that the ski slopes are quite a long gondola ride away from the village of Vaujany - ideally with small kids you want skiing very close to your accommodation, to take them back for snacks/rests/playing in the warm etc.
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Joy Zipper, last season (2012/13) my daughters were 3 and 6, my youngest was very keen to do what my eldest was doing but despite that (and despite being physically very big for her age) she didn't get on that well with skiing and she was 3yrs and 7months old at the time, she spent most of it lying down. That isn't to say you won't find the same thing but not quite 3 is very young.
Personally I would recommend going with a family specialist company which has kids clubs so that your youngest doesn't feel so left out as they have plenty to do? Also I would seriously consider delaying to Easter if you can, that way your youngest will be old enough to give it a go.
Good luck
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Joy Zipper, if you're tied to school holidays, here's another vote for Easter. It's not very late next year, so a higher resort will be likely to have decent snow, plus the little fella will be that much older and certainly over 3 so you won't have the hassle of trying to find a school happy/willing to take him.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Resort – I’ve not skied it, but many friends with young kids have raved about Obergurgl. Nice hotels, lifts, ski school equipment etc. all well located, very family-oriented.
Age – I’m not aware of any ski schools who takes <3 yr old, although I do have friends who may have suggested their 2yr11m old was actually 3 and the ski school didn’t seem too bothered. Unfortunately, he hated it and they ended up having to arrange separate childcare.
1-1 - Our local ESF will certainly do this for <3yr old and its our vastly preferred choice for all lessons. I think all our friends are now converted as well - the rate of progress is sooooo much faster. My rough estimate is that 2hrs private equates to 2-4days group.
However… at +/-3yrs old, my experience and that of all our skiing friends with young children (I’ve seen about a dozen 2-8yr olds go through various approaches to ski school in the last couple of yrs) is that:
a) Age 3 they really need their parents with them. It’s a very unfamiliar environment, in a foreign country, with lots of strangers around, doing something that is hard, potentially in adverse weather, for a prolonged period. I think they benefit from having their parents around, no matter how robust/gungho/sociable etc. you think your child is.
b) It’s great fun watching/helping them learn to ski and play. We took our youngest (then age 2y9m) to the nursery slopes along with: a sledge, a bucket and spade, a vast bag of food, a change of clothes, lots of water and a shovel (hence why you want to be staying near the slopes!). At 2y 9m she slid around on skis for an average of 2x15mins a time, holding a pole with us next to her. Mainly she played a lot and had fun. The following trip, at 2y 11m, she started using the smallest 2 pomas on her own and skiing down the nursery slope. To get her to this required a lot of 1-1 attention from people she trusted, building that bond of trust for a 3yr old with a stranger in a foreign environment is quite difficult.
I think at young ages, ski school is trying to combine two things together that are best separated. 1) you want childcare so you can go skiing, 2) you want your child to get the skiing bug and develop the very early basics. I would look for an option that enables you to have childcare that works (specialist ‘Esprit’ type package, relative, local nanny, crèche, etc.). and separately take your 3yr old out for an hour or 2.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Joy Zipper wrote: |
| My understanding is that we may struggle to find a ski school that will take our youngest son as they all seem to cater for 3 years and over. Is there any leeway with the age restrictions at these schools ? |
We had this exact problem previously, and settled on going to Tignes because the 'Les Marmottons' ski school take children from 2.5 (Jr was pretty much exactly 2.5 on the first day of the week, as I recall, so he was right on the minimum). They were excellent, and the whole thing was a rip roaring success.
We stayed in Brevieres for the 'humanity' of it and just drove up to Le Lac for the ski school every day. It worked a treat for us.
If the little one won't be going to 'proper' ski school after all, then I can wholeheartedly also put in a recommendation for La Tania with Ski Magic, who we've used twice. Childcare inclusive, and very (very) good value for money. Been to La Tania three years in a row now, it's one of our favourites for the kids because everything is so joined up and compact.
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Sensible stuff from snowdave.
A number of ski schools in Austria have 'Bambini' programmes, where the under-4's play, try a bit of sliding, drink hot chocolate, build snowmen, sledge for a bit, slide a bit more etc. all depending on the development level of the kids. Some 3-year-olds can manage to balance and do a few small, straight runs on skis, while there are 6-year-olds who still struggle with this.
As an example, see what Snowacademy in Saalbach offers. There will be something similar in most of the larger Austrian resorts, and as a bonus, the instructors and staff all speak English. Plenty of ESF (and other) schools in France offer this sort of thing as well, particularly where they work closely with UK TOs such as Esprit, as described in the post above this one.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I think at young ages, ski school is trying to combine two things together that are best separated. 1) you want childcare so you can go skiing, 2) you want your child to get the skiing bug and develop the very early basics. I would look for an option that enables you to have childcare that works (specialist ‘Esprit’ type package, relative, local nanny, crèche, etc.). and separately take your 3yr old out for an hour or 2.
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makes loads of sense. If you want somebody to look after your little one for hours at a time in a happy, supportive, comfortable atmosphere don't also expect them to teach him to ski. If you happen to hit the Holy Grail and get both - you are fortunate and unusual. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The OPs post suggests she/he is in Scotland. The choice of family specialist TOs who fly from EDI or GLA is very limited. Esprit only offer GVA or CMB from EDI. I’m not aware of any family specialists who offer Austria from either of the central belt airports.
Joy Zipper – I’m sure your 5 year old will have a ball wherever you go. Having never skied before, my 6 year old started the Kinder classes at Hillend in Janury 2013 when he was 5. He was 6 in October and went in to Junior Ski School. He did the Esprit Intermediates class in Val d’Isere and improved enormously. A week past Saturday he finished Level 7 at Hillend. From what you say your 5 year old would probably slot in to the Esprit Intermediates class with no problem.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for all of the replies - there's a lot to mull over !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Joy Zipper, Did an Easter trip with friends and their sprogs to Les Gets a few years ago. That seemed very child friendly to me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to SnowHeads and some great advice already above. I'd definitely agree with using a specialist childcare operator if possible, such as Esprit or Mark Warner. Takes the pressure off parents, with excellent care and fun for children in my experience. I think La Plagne and Flaine would both be fine. I'm not a fan of Avoriaz but nearby Les Gets would be family friendly and links into same ski area. It would also have the shortest transfers. I don't know Les Saisies but it sounds good.
I also agree Easter would be better than New Year if at all possible. Less likely to get very harsh weather and less expensive (though not cheap). Interested to see Tignes ski school takes 2.5 year olds. Tignes likely to be fine at Easter but very exposed terrain for a New Year trip. Easter next year is not too late so should hopefully have reasonable snow conditions without having to go very high altitude. When my son was just 3 years old he only managed an hour or so at a time, with me physically helping him. By the time he was just past 4 years old he confidently tackled 3 separate consecutive weeks of ski school in the USA. Those extra few months of development, strength and co-ordination made a massive difference. Wish I'd started when I was 3!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well, we are have booked up for a short trip before Christmas to "dip our toe in the water" with the young ones. Flying out (very) early on Lyon on the 20th December and flying back late on the 24th. We are hiring a car and have booked accommodation in Chamrousse 1750 right next to the Croisette & La Perche tows.
We are going to try to put out youngest (who will be two weeks shy of three) into the ESF Piou-Piou club and we will see how it goes. It's more of a short trip to introduce our children the mountains as we are planning to go away again at Easter. We may well be stuck with a two year old clinging to our legs. Only time will tell.
Hopefully there will be snow !
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