 Poster: A snowHead
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| Uphill struggle ... even for an experienced skier like Nigel Magson going off-piste can be dangerous and costly |
This article from The Guardian tells the fascinating tale of one skier who came very close to crossng the line between fun and adventure and foolhardiness. Another time he might not have been so lucky....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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..... but if your wife is a better skier than you and wants to use a guide while you trundle down the easy reds...... beware!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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An interesting first-hand account of an incident that we discussed a while back. The astonishing thing about Nigel Magson's piece is this paragraph:
"Exercising your own judgment in the mountains is part of the fun, part of the self-reliance ethic. But then I am no longer alone. The cursed mobile phone that I'd left sitting in my hotel room is an expected prerequisite for venturing out in the mountains these days. Now I face the bill for an expensive search operation - anywhere upwards of £4,000. But for me the drama was not on the mountain but in the emotions that others suffered because of me."
Yes, emotions, but what about fear and risk? Incredibly, the author makes no commitment to skiing with a buddy in future. Expert guide Rob McCurdy, who is quoted later in the article, also makes no such recommendation.
I thought it was the No. 1 Golden Rule of remote off-piste to either use a guide (safest) or - if independence is a passion - to ski with a friend. That significantly reduces the risk to those who might have to save your skin. Many mountain rescuers have lost their lives in these situations.
The whole tone of the piece is self-justifying 'I was a hero for surviving' stuff. Nauseating. Not even an acknowledgment of gratitude for the rescuers' work, just a fuss about the £4000 price tag (presumably because he was uninsured).
Maybe we should get Nigel Magson on to this thread to justify his evident desire to go for further solo off-piste adventures, presumably with an insurance certificate next time. He deserves a right of reply to this rant!
As for the mobile phone stuff, I thought the whole point was that signals were unreliable in the high mountains?
This whole thing about going on wild adventures, with the approval of your insurer, and then phoning for a helicopter seems wholly self-indulgent. Or am I being unfair?
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Not unfair at all, David Goldsmith, it seems he is suffering from the belief that skiing is a right, as is his rescue, and that he has no, or little, responsibility.
When skiing Vasquez Cirque (inbounds off-piste, but totally seperate from the main pistes), the group I was with were always advised to notify the group leaders that you were going, and to go in groups of at least 3 with radios. (the idea being that if one person gets injured, then one can stay with him, while the 3rd person skis off for help.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Or am I being unfair? |
I don't see why. He does show a little remorse, but only because friends were worried about him.
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| Of course this won't stop me from skiing off-piste. Each time you venture into unknown snow you gain a little more respect for the mountains and learn something new about yourself. That in itself is always a reason to go back. |
As you say his whole approach seems a touch foolhardy. I also think that the publishing of such an article without a editor's comment concerning the "Golden Rules" is irresponsible. Who's going to contact the Guardian and ask for their views? (I actually have N M's work email address, but perhaps we shouldn't ask him for comments via this in case work colleagues have access?)
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Call me a cynic, but I assume he will have been paid for his article.
So, he does something stupid, which costs him money, then writes an article trying to get the reader's support, while making himself out to be an "adventurer", this should give him more clout when he goes to write another article.
Would the paper have published the article if it just said "I went skiing with my family and had a safe, fun, responsible time"?
Instead, they will have paid him, rewarded him, for being a reckless fool. I am not saying that it is the paper's fault for him doing it, but surely they also have a responsibility to reward intelligence, not idiocy.
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The Guardian would not necessarily have paid for the piece, though there's no indication at the end that they haven't.
To give the Guardian credit, remember that it was their deputy editor who wrote that superb account of skiing the Haute Route (responsibly), published in their sister paper The Observer. At least this article will provoke discussion and thought, as it does here. I must admit I've not always acted with best wisdom on mountains, and wouldn't want to be too hard on the guy. He's certainly paying a substantial financial penalty.
It's just a shame that he didn't really credit the type of rescue that was mounted, and its implications. Maybe the rescue personnel get a share of the £4000, or maybe they operate as unpaid volunteers as in Britain. Perhaps Matteo knows.
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I agree, although the difference between here and newspaper readership is that on snowHeads discussion is actively provoked by the participation of people from many backgrounds and with a wide variety of experiences. A one-off reading of such an article by a boarder/skier might actively encourage him/her to believe that he/she could give it a go. There's unlikely to be someone looking over his/her shoulder and saying; "Hang on a minute, but...."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is a most interesting article. I wonder if the editor has altered the emphasis in any way. Nigel Magson is very honest about his not wanting to be rescued: "I had mixed feelings - part of me didn't want to be found; I wanted to get out of there by myself without the fuss." This implies considerable honesty and insight.
And, early in the article he does question the wisdom of skiing alone :"Should I have been skiing alone?", but the tone has changed by the end of the article to "I have always enjoyed climbing and skiing alone" without any remorse.
He does mention the "emotions that others suffered because of me" but again no emotion seems attached.
It doesn't quite make sense.
Getting on my Soap box:
Skiing off-piste alone is stupid.
The minimum number is 3: one to stay with the injured, and one to get help.
Unless most members of the party are fully trained in mountain-craft and snow-craft then a guide is mandatory .
Here endeth the lesson.
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I seldom go offpiste but still have my share of the problem.
In coming down a Saalbach mountain I misread the piste map and found ourself at the bottom of Run No. 48 instead of at its top. By walking ourselves out of the situation we missed the last chairlift by 15 minutes. It was Christmas time and as fate had it the visibility was down to a few metres with falling snow too. We were about 4km from the bottom station . Before we could do anything the sky was pitch black. Luckily a snowcat and couple of chairlift attendents passed us earlier and the route was straight. However we literally had to feel our way down in total darkness. Since then I always carry a touch.
In recent year we have carried Personal Mobile Radios (PMR) too. These are walkie talkies exempted from licence fees. The set is powered by 0.5Watt transceiver and good enough for 2 miles uninterrupted transmission. The PMR set can be had for anything about 25 quids but semi-professional grade is recommended like the Motorola Talkabout T5522 with single hand operation and weather proof case retailed at 80 pounds for two in Maplin (with charger & batteries). The PMR has prescribed frequency bands allowing different groups to of the same frequency to talk each other. Highly recommended if you want to stay in touch with each other at different parts of the mountain. Best link-up with the wife was when I dropped her off (too tired) at Soll (Austria) and skied myself back to Scheffau to get the car. The clocked distance was 3.5 miles.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Here's a bit of amazing ancient history about off piste solo ski mountaineering from the very distant past.
Note the bit about pre-preparation - not transceivers or whatever in those days but barrels of provisions hung in the trees.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm not sure that I dissapprove of people going off piste alone, it's not something that I would do myself, but if someone with a suitable level of experience to understand the risks chooses to do it, accepting those risks, I don't see that it is necessarily wrong. I do think that if you accept that increased level of risk, then you must also to some degree forfeit your expectation to get rescued if you run into trouble. Having said that, noone ever forces the rescuers to take the risks that they do, they accept that risk of their own volition, for their own reasons.
It seems that their is a slight case of double standards here, if someone skis off piste alone, then they are criticised, if they sail around the world alone, then they are hailed as a hero.
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Kramer. Fair points. Maybe the basis - the terms - upon which we all do things that might involve risk to rescuers should be more clearly understood.
The bottom line is the threat that European ski resorts could restrict or ban off-piste skiing without a guide. There are whisperings.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, I disagree. The round-the-world solo sailers set off after lots of preparation, with lots of backup, in the full glare of publicity, and with maximum communication set-up, so everyone knows where they are. They are often testing out equipment at the same time. I think these poeple crazy, but they are going about their adventure in a sensible manner.
On the other hand, every year people go walking in the highlands of Scotland wearing inapropriate clothes, no emergency equipment and without telling anyone where they are going. This is foolish
The guy in the article falls into the foolish catagory.
This has been discussed on this site before, but I can't find the thread just now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Jonpim, I quote myself -
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someone with a suitable level of experience to understand the risks chooses to do it, accepting those risks,
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I'm not talking about fools who are too ignorant to know what they are doing, rather those who are experienced in mountain craft. Many of the guides that I have skied with, ski off-piste alone. However in an earlier post you said -
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Getting on my Soap box:
Skiing off-piste alone is stupid.
The minimum number is 3: one to stay with the injured, and one to get help.
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this comment was made without qualification, and I do not agree with it. Skiing off-piste alone is risky, and not something to be tried by the average recreational skier (IMHO), but if that is what you choose to do, with the requisite experience and preperation, then I don't think that it is inherantly stupid. If someone wants to take a risk themselves, then I do not think that we have a right to condemn them for it.
I think that the comparison with round the world sailors stands, sure some of them set off alone with appropriate support, etc, but many others don't. Most of the others end up needing to be rescued at risk to the lives of the rescuers, but so do some of the professionals. This doesn't stop us from accepting that there is a difference between the two types, and I think that it is the same case with solo, off-piste skiers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just to raise another point, the "risk to the rescuers". In my experience, the motivation of those people in heroic jobs is not always quite as altruistic as one would imagine. These people are not forced to take risks against their will in order to rescue people, quite often their motivation for doing the job is extremely complex (not that this belittles in any way their heroism), and quite often it is the danger and excitement that attracts them to it in the first place.
Jonpim, please don't think that I'm having a rant against you, I just find this quite an interesting ethical and philosophical point. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Taking on the elements alone, I see what you're getting at .... but I wonder if the parallel is strictly accurate. I think the comparison would be fairer between a round the world yachtsman and a one man ski touring expedition over at least a few days, not a reasonably accomplished skier having a bit of fun for the day. We are not talking about a guide here, with intimate knowledge not just of mountaincraft but also of a specific locality, so I'm not sure that the matter of guides going off-piste alone is that relevant.
If a vessel gets into trouble, it may well not matter whether it has a crew of one or ten. Perhaps an armada of vessels would be a better parallel - and of course that's just not practical. The option of having a nearby vessel to come to your aid is rarely available, whereas the lone skier should be able to tie up with others wishing to ski off-piste for the day with little difficulty.
Quite honestly, if we're to stick with the same analogy, I'd rather compare the skier in question with the reasonably accomplished sailor who sets off alone for a cruise along the coast without checking the weather forecast or if his radio's working.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, no worries, I am enjoying reading your posts. In a previous post of mine (also can't find) I said the only fault of Snowheads (then) was a distinct lack of passion - just a bit too civilised (I think I put it differently). This is no longer a complaint: witness here and the long running "British ski instructors fined 10,000 Euros in French Alps".
I accept your suggestion that those who choose to go off-piste alone should be allowed to do so, but only if they accept (as you also suggest) some penalty for their foolhardiness. But what penalty? To pay for the rescue, or not getting rescued at all?
The motives of why some choose to be a rescuer are intriguing. But then, why am I a doctor? I'm sure my motives are just as suspect.
Two possible motives are Commercial and Pride.
Commercial. “Silly skier gets rescued” = good news. “Silly skier left to die” = bad news. Which resort would you want to go to?
Pride. Many resort workers are proud of their resort. This is especially strong in Italy. They know the reputation of the resort is at stake if a skier dies. I suggest many rescuers are there to make sure the resort keeps its good name.
For me a major aspect of skiing is company: the guys you ski with. I dislike skiing alone, even on piste. I need others to share the thrills and tumbles and crazy things we all do, and lunch is no fun at all without company. I wonder about the motives of those who ski alone as much as you wonder about the rescuers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Quite honestly, if we're to stick with the same analogy, I'd rather compare the skier in question with the reasonably accomplished sailor who sets off alone for a cruise along the coast without checking the weather forecast or if his radio's working.
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I agree, and having read this account, this chap got into trouble through a serious lack of planning, as well as bad judgement on the day. I would not disagree that what he did was irresponsible, however I think that to expand that to say that all skiers who go off piste are irresponsible is wrong. Similarly just as I would only recommend a solo sailing trip to a very experienced and proficient sailor, similarly I would only recommend a solo off piste excursion to a skier of a similar standard.
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I wonder about the motives of those who ski alone as much as you wonder about the rescuers.
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I don't ski off piste alone, because I'm not good enough (as anyone who has witnessed my floundering about in the powder would testify to), but I often ski on-piste alone, for a number of reasons. For me the actual act of skiing (not sitting on the lifts, not standing around getting my breath back) is an essentially solitary act, concentrating on posture, line, and other skiers on the slope, thinking about my friends doesn't come into it until I stop and wait for them to catch up (or vice versa!). Their presence (or lack of it) is completely irrelevent to my enjoyment of that particular piece of skiing at that particular time.
Secondly when you ski alone, you ski at your own pace, not having to worry about losing other people, and stopping for a rest whenever you want. You get to ski exactly where you want to, with none of the excruciating polite discussions that occur when a leaderless group tries to decide where to ski to next.
Thirdly when you ski alone, you get on chair lifts quicker, and with a little strategy can end up sitting next to someone you think that you might like to talk to on the long ride up (as most of my mates are hairy blokes, and most of the people that I "choose" to sit next to are non-hairy girls, I think that the advantage is obvious, although having a conversation with anyone, male or female, is always fun on a chair-lift, and a great way to make new friends), if you end up sat on your own, it's a great place to sit and take stock of the majesty of the mountains.
The one time that I'm not so keen on skiing on my own is in poor visibility in an area that I don't know, if I'm going to get lost and die on the mountain, I want to take someone else down with me! (Joke!)
For those of you who read this and are sceptical of skiing alone, I challenge you to try catching the last lift up the mountain on a sunny day, wait at the top until all the other skiers have gone down (just before the piste patrol do their last run down), and ski down a deserted piste, being the only person that you can see or hear for miles around, as the sun goes down behind the mountains. It is so exhilirating that I think that you cannot fail to be converted to the cause. I'm told an even better feeling can be had by hiking up a mountain on a clear night with a full moon, and then skiing back down in the middle of the night. All I can think is, that if you have the skill and experience, then skiing solo off piste must take this experience to another level.
Lastly (sorry for such a long post), if I choose to partake in a risky behaviour, forefeiting my right to be rescued voluntarily, and then someone chooses, of their own free will to rescue me at risk to themselves anyway, am I ethically or morally responsible for any misfortune that they may encounter?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 4-04-04 20:52; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, great post. I too love that last run down at the end of the day as the piste-rangers hunt for bodies. But I would want someone there to share it.
The odd thing is that normally I am quite a solitary fella. But I like skiing with others, even with all the hassles you describe so well.
Maybe you are usually very gregarious, but just like to get away from it all when you go skiing. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jonpim, generally grumpy all the time. 
Seriously though, I just enjoy the variety of skiing with other people (preferably just one) and skiing alone.
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and lunch is no fun at all without company
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What's lunch? 
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Kramer, This is lunch.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Which one is you?
BTW there seems to be a lack of food on that table...
just alcohol.
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Kramer, What's food?
I'm the one with the beard.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer. Congratulations for celebrating the spirit of the lone ranger at the end of the day. It's some of the finest advice ever published on Snowheads.
Equally fine is the early morning air from the first lift in the morning, the freshly-groomed expanses or, of course, first powder tracks on a lucky day. The best places to experience this are where they open the lifts at 8 rather than 9 (Austria, rather than France, in my experience). You get a clear hour of big skiing with no human obstacles - the only safe time to truck around at high speed, if you know what you're doing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jonpim,
Indeed that was lunch. Extra points if you can say where it was, or give names of others in the picture 
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David,
First tracks on freshly groomed corduroy at eight in the morning on a cool crisp sunny day is (almost) as good as an untracked powder field. I don't think that I've ever done an early morning run alone though, usually I need someone else with me to provide motivation to get out of bed and get going following the inevitable late night the night before!
Which reminds me of another advantage of skiing alone (or just in a pair), no hanging around outside the hotel on the morning of a beautiful powder day, waiting for the slower (female?) members of your party to finish getting ready. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Pete Horn, Ian, Daniel and Anthony at La Plagne, France (14th-23rd March 2003).
In the background is Romano, Stephanie and Karl - they are all medical students from Berne. 
(Did you take the picture?)
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 5-04-04 9:38; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Jonpim, most of that info could be got from the url!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer. Any motivation I've ever had for early morning skiing is thanks to Arnie Wilson, editor of Ski and Board magazine, who kicked me out of bed at 7am in Bad Hofgastein one morning.
First lift took us into the company of the pisteurs, who were busy dealing with fresh snowfall and avalanche blasting. While they toiled we cruised around in 6in of powder, feeling like guilty cats who got the cream.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, If you want to know the full delights of watching the sun move across the sky as you wait to go skiing in the morning: get yourself some children!
Your suggestion that the slower members of the party might be female needs qualification. They are always old women. In my group they are called David and Keith.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ElizabethB wrote: |
most of that info could be got from the url!
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Of course, but I need the extra points!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cervinia, last day of the holiday, top left (as you look up) lift, above the boulders. Not a cloud in the sky, just some far off haze. Sun goes behind the mountains, before we're the last to set-off, down blue, empty hardly skied pistes. The perfect end to the week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They are always old women. In my group they are called David and Keith.
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ROFLMAO. I couldn't agree more. As for kids, they can learn to ski with the school ski trip, and then start coming when they've got a job and can pay for themselves. I've had a few bad experiences in the past going on a skiing holiday with the women in my life, and all I can say is never again. The final straw came in Val d'Isere two weeks ago, when on our last day there I was forced to use my patented powder day wake up call to encourage my female companion to rise from her boudoir. If I get married, and my wife wants to ski, then she can take the kids on a seperate skiing holiday with her!
David, I have vague memories of turfing out of bed at 5.45am one day in Whistler to get the fresh tracks lift up. I have memories of my friend turning to me at one point and saying that it was no good, he just couldn't ski with so much snow around!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Too much snow is a problem familiar to any Cairngorm skier, simply because the final section of the access road from Aviemore can be overwhelmed with drifts.
Frustration is not an adequate word.
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As someone once told me about the Cairngorm scene:-
"If the snow is good, the road is closed, if the road is open, then the snow's no good."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pete, I think you'll find it's samsphotos.org.uk or you get a photo of a giraffe among other things
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Look, I've been uploading to it all morning (well, for a few minutes), you don't expect me to get the name right as well do you? 
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FAQ
