 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys, am so enjoying reading this forum again. Thank you so much for your combined knowledge (and banter)! I would love some tips on the following for our Easter skiing trip. I would guess I am a confident intermediate (12 Weeks but spaced out every 2-3 years (due to our location). I have a ‘dodgy’ right knee due to 2 past skiing accidents which tends to hurt at the end of the day. I am happiest on blues and reds, ok-ish on blacks. I am fairly fast generally. But my technique falls apart completely when skiing home at the end of the day in soft slushy snow. The rest of the (all adult) family seem to make light work of it (almost enjoy it). But it is my bete noire, and I am then much slower. Please give me some tips and techniques on how to ski slush? (Yes I am not adverse to down-lifting if need be, but at Easter this year, it could be soft snow from 2-3pm  onwards and we like to ski until the end if possible.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fat skis.
( which of course are horrible on early morning refrozen death pack so it is pick your poison)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We sometimes refer to slush as "poor man's powder" as it can be skied with a similar technique, skis, yes ideally fat ones, close together, subtle turns, bit of a bounce if necessary, no skidded turns. So just ski it like it's powder, but more aggressively. Muscle burn is likely, but it's great fun.
What's that, you don't know how to ski powder? Oh.
@Dave of the Marmottes, Yeah, but I'm not going out in this weather on my race skis. As it happens my new fats aren't too bad on firm pistes, although I've yet to encounter real rockard boilerplate since I got them.
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How much do you ‘sink’ in to slushy late season snow when you are on piste skis?
I’ve never understood the recommendation for fat skis when skiing heavy, wet snow on piste. Especially when it has a high water content and you have to cope with more surface area of the fat ski struggling to glide due to the level of “sticktion”.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rob@rar, Yeh! We agree!  As I read this, I was trying to fathom the benefit of fat skis in slush. I also reckoned that the greater surface area of fats would require more effort to bash through the slush.
I actually enjoy slush, as there's no chance of losing a edge as with ice. Go at it with power and high angles is my recipe. Smash the stuff out of the way, otherwise it may trip you. Great fun, but tiring.
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@Mollerski, I ski slush either fast, making quite edgy GS type turns on gentler terrain, and on steeper terrain more like ‘poor man’s powder’ with a lot of pressure management to shape the turn. Neither requires fat skis, and my experience of skiing wet snow (eg EoSB elephant snot), a ski with a big surface area is a hindrance, especially if not well waxed.
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Sure others are far more qualified than me to offer coaching tips. I have found two things made the difference between happily progressing downward and floundering around in soft "end of day" snow. Most important for me was realising my skis had to be closer together than normal. I tend to ski with my skis somewhat apart, in soft snow that ends up with them going in different directions and the whole thing becomes much harder. Consciously keeping them together makes a big difference. I have also found picking the steepest line I can see helps too, maybe it involves more effort but it seems to actually be easier when in heavy slushy stuff.
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Unfortunately will be on “good” rental skis so looking at the selection that means only 76mm wide.
So treat it like powder. Legs more together, but slightly diff techniques depending on the slope?
Reasonably fast on gentler slopes with big turns. But on steeper slopes, go for gentler turns and more up and down movement? I’m not great off piste/nervous (scene of the two accidents) but I know (roughly) what I’m supposed to do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| I’ve never understood the recommendation for fat skis when skiing heavy, wet snow on piste. |
Nor me.
By lightbulb moment for how to ski slush donkey's years ago was on a pair of Rossi 9x Pro "GS" skis with a 64mm waist when I realised that if you just used more speed and bigger turns, the skis would cut straight through the slush. For me, if you use fat skis you end up skiing the equivalent of the zip line through a set of bumps to stop them sticking and that's far more effort than GS turns on a narrower ski.
My advice to the OP would be that the principle is still the same, don't slow down and try to pick your way through or around the slush bumps, speed up and make bigger turns to cut straight through them instead.
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@Cato, think about how you make the skis turn. There are only three ways to make the ski follow around a curve: you can tip it on its edge; you can twist/skid it; you can press it against/in to the snow. Most turns we make on the hill are a blend of those three steering elements, and a good skier will vary that blend to match the conditions and how they want to ski them.
In heavy, slushy snow twisting/skidding the skis is (a) very much harder work, and (b) runs more of a risk of catching an edge or other kids of ski divergence. So that steering element is less effective when skiing slushy snow than it would otherwise be. So you are more reliant on edging and pressure management. Which of these is dominant in a turn will depend on how quick you want to go: faster, use more edge angle; slower use more pressure to bend the ski.
To refer to your first post, you might think your family were skiing effortlessly. I’d hazard a guess they were putting in a lot of effort, albeit with a good blend of steering elements. Slush takes more effort, no matter how you ski it.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 24-03-24 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Je suis un Skieur, higher speed, GS turns work well if you’re on terrain that you are happy to ski quickly. But steeper terrain does require slower speeds, and you will have the option to press your turns around the slushy mounds (if they have started to mound up).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Cato wrote: |
| Reasonably fast on gentler slopes with big turns. |
Yes.
| Cato wrote: |
| But on steeper slopes, go for gentler turns and more up and down movement? I’m not great off piste/nervous (scene of the two accidents) but I know (roughly) what I’m supposed to do. |
I don't get the up and down advice either, nor do i think it necessary. Concentrate on making progressive, rounded "C" shape turns rather than sharp "Z" shape turns. It's the heel rotation in a sharp turn that will trip you up on slush. Even on steeper stuff you can take a wider line with more time in the fall line than you might otherwise do on firm snow because the slush will slow you down.
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@Je suis un Skieur, haha yes, I had a pair of totally worn out, knackered Rossi FIS GSs that were a dream in slush
Also... slushy bumps 
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You know it makes sense.
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Straightline it.
Hockeystop at the bottom.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Keep your speed up and do a series of small/short hockey stops. If you over-skid a turn you'll get worn out as your pushing a lot of heavy snow out of the way. It's a bit like bumps technique as any skidded turn builds snow under your ski.
Alternatively, long GS type turns and just smash through it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks so much guys. Very helpful! I fear a straight-line could help horribly badly but I have noted no skidded turns (which I fear is my problem at the end of the day) but rounded pressured turns, keeping my speed up and facing down the fallline as the slush will slow me down. And legs more together. Let’s hope the cooler weather predicted materialises. Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Unless you're on fat skis with lots of tip and tail rocker |
Might be worth pointing out that the OP skis on piste, blues and reds with the occasional black. He probably won’t be on fat rockers…
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| Cato wrote: |
| Thanks so much guys. Very helpful! I fear a straight-line could help horribly badly but I have noted no skidded turns (which I fear is my problem at the end of the day) but rounded pressured turns, keeping my speed up and facing down the fallline as the slush will slow me down. And legs more together. Let’s hope the cooler weather predicted materialises. Thanks! |
That's a pretty good summary. Good luck!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Unless you're on fat skis with lots of tip and tail rocker |
Might be worth pointing out that the OP skis on piste, blues and reds with the occasional black. He probably won’t be on fat rockers… |
I didn't say he would or should be; I intended to respond to this (and the posts from others querying the common recommendation):
| rob@rar wrote: |
I’ve never understood the recommendation for fat skis when skiing heavy, wet snow on piste. |
With why I think they are often recommended.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| I’ve never understood the recommendation for fat skis when skiing heavy, wet snow on piste. |
Nor me.
By lightbulb moment for how to ski slush donkey's years ago was on a pair of Rossi 9x Pro "GS" skis with a 64mm waist when I realised that if you just used more speed and bigger turns, the skis would cut straight through the slush. |
Real proper isothermal rot? If so chapeau. One of the scariest runs of my life was taking a pair of FIS GS for " one more lap" past the witching hour and the tails would just sink about a foot in.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, when I first learnt to carve, under the tuition of the venerable Phil Smith on the Grande Motte very early season, one of the things he had us doing was GS turns through the variable crap in-between pistes. The message was, "Hold the edge and let the ski do the work". I simply took that lesson and applied it to slush as another form of variable crap. In many ways it's easier; you don't get chucked around as much in a pure carved line because the slush gives way as you cut through it and once you get used to how it reacts you can deliberately push it around and play with it. I can still ski heavy winter crap the same way when I'm fit enough but I can't play with it like I can spring snow.
I'm probably a bit biased because I've done a high proportion of spring skiing but I'd take sunny spring conditions over heavy winter crud (or boilerplate) any day.
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As per advice given above-ski like powder- rounded turns, facing down fall line on steeper terrain if you have the confidence to.
Basically imagine you are a boat… feet reasonably close together, working as a single unit ploughing through the slush and if you concentrate on one thing it would be keeping weight distribution as centred as possible anticipating early any pull away from the centre if the ski sticks to a ball of slush on occasion, maximising the area of ski in contact with the snow to optimise “plough effect”
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Je suis un Skieur, yeah I think it's great but there has to be some base to push back. Get too isothermic / rotted out and there just isn't which is why a wider ski does a better job of creating its own platform. At least that is my experience based decision. Don't get me wrong the previous laps the GS skis had been great fun but the (groomed) snow suddenly was overcooked and there was nothing.
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I'm in the carve it up with loads of edge angle camp. In general a narrower ski with a bit of side cut is good for that. The only thing I'd add is a bigger shovel or some rocker does help when you don't get it quite right and smash into a pile of slush. I had a couple of moments like that when out on SLs in the slush recently (which obviously don't have either).
The other thing to watch for is when you are getting really high edge angles and you start booting our in piles of slush!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jedster wrote: |
| I'm in the carve it up with loads of edge angle camp. |
To be clear when I say use the bases not the edges, I mean at high edge angles - that soft snow allows that without sliding out is what makes slush/powder so fun. I just mean that rather than focusing on gripping with the edges, one can use the bases as a platform against the soft snow (downhill or to the side), similar to the way a surfboard/water skis/boat works when ‘on edge’ in a turn.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| jedster wrote: |
| I'm in the carve it up with loads of edge angle camp. |
To be clear when I say use the bases not the edges, I mean at high edge angles - that soft snow allows that without sliding out is what makes slush/powder so fun. |
However: when you get onto flat tracks where suction almost stops you dead it really helps to do wide turns keeping the skis on edge to minimize the area of base contact with the snow.
Sometimes if the track's amongst the trees it even helps to maximise skiing along the shadow of the tree (where the snow is less "sucky") and minimize skiing the gaps in the sun 
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@geoffers, wax
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You know it makes sense.
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I am surprised no one yet has given the correct answer - snowboard 
slushy, back foot surfy turns, easy and great fun.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @geoffers, wax |
Agreed, but what if you haven't or don't have any to hand
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Poster: A snowHead
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| dozofoz wrote: |
I am surprised no one yet has given the correct answer - snowboard
slushy, back foot surfy turns, easy and great fun. |
Be still my brethren - for is it not written "and lo, they shall come unto the One True Edge once the slush casts off their ACLs, and they shall get the Elvis leg and wail and gnash their teeth and see the error of their ways"
Here endeth the lesson.
Piste be upon thee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Richard_Sideways,  superb!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Richard_Sideways, that's good that. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
In heavy, slushy snow twisting/skidding the skis is (a) very much harder work |
Unless you're on fat skis with lots of tip and tail rocker
Other than the bit of extra lift at the tip over piles of soft snow or bumps, and the ease of slashing the tails out, I'm also not sure that fat skis make it much easier to ski slush.
But the soft snow in combination with wider/looser skis lets you ski differently - just like in powder - and it's lots of fun. Use the bases as much as the edges. But because there's so much edge grip in slush you can also ski normally on them without the usual disadvantageous of fat skis on piste; basically it's win-win. Whereas I don't think there's anything about the design of a narrower ski that that makes them easier or more fun in slush.
I've never had an issue with fat skis sticking more slush btw, and I wax like once every 2 seasons |
This. My fat skis this year are a Line Blade Optic 104, treated with DPS Phantom base treatment. The latter has been a game changer for skiing in slush, frankly, as that snow eats base waxes otherwise.
Superb in slush. They will carve and are easy to get on edge (this was a shock, when i forst got them - skis reallyvare versatile, these days!), slide, drift and all with minimal effort. They are a bit heavy, but the trade-off is a lot of stability and ability to straightline bumps quite happily  .
OP, you will get to the stage where you can ski anything in slush. Generally I spend icy mornings on an SL ski, and change to the fatties when it all gets soft. Just try a bunch of different skis and see what works for you. As you progress, that will also change. But I'd say as an intermediate, you should go wider for some confidence, and as you learn to carve more, play with narrower ones.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 20-05-24 8:14; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Haven't bothered to read all posts, but for me the word is aggressive. Get the edges high and smash the piles out of the way. I like slush because with slush, there's never going to be ice to wash out on. If you tippy toe through slush it'll not move at some point and 'trip' you. Tiring, but good fun. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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PS. I love slush. OP, you will learn to love it too!
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My tip to the OP would be to look at the terrain and the weather pattern and use that knowledge to work out where you should be at any particular time. In spring snow what's "in condition" can be a very fine balance, and the snow can be fairly variable.
The standard off-piste spring-snow ski used in Iceland was the Volkl Blaze 106. Narrower and much less flappy than winter powder skis. Unless you carry a bag full of the things that may or may not be where you set your compromise. With snowboards, they're all wide enough for that type of snow. An SL race board works fine, for example.
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@phil_w, SL race skis work just as well too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Poor mans powder - I love slush, its best to use use fat skis and be super aggressive thru your turns, think of exploding the bumps and speed is your friend.
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| phil_w wrote: |
The standard off-piste spring-snow ski used in Iceland was the Volkl Blaze 106. Narrower and much less flappy than winter powder skis. Unless you carry a bag full of the things that may or may not be where you set your compromise. With snowboards, they're all wide enough for that type of snow. An SL race board works fine, for example. |
This makes sense to me I think. After posting in this thread and then enjoying the delights of the SFaB and EOSB, I came to the conclusion that my 94 and 114 were by far the most skied and my couple of runs on GS skis on a morning when I thought it might be firm but wasn't were very hard work. I think also that with "slush" there are many graduations and you end up looking for things that help in multiple dimensions: crust, float, push through heft, stiction, complete rot sink. And the ideal ski may vary greatly by skier skill, experience in general variable off piste snow, skier weight and speed attainable (when the snow is really sticky you simply aren't going to get to speeds that keep you planing).
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FAQ
