 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so im 30 this year, and have always done my skiing strictly on piste. did a fair bit of racing when younger, so I just like to carve everywhere. Ive now decided its now or never to try some off piste. I yearn to try, but it all looks hard work (im not lazy) and id be having to master a new art (I love a challenge). Total respect to good off piste skiers it looks amazing.
Where should I start? What skis would you recommend if cost was no issue? (ok so I know I need a snowboard on each foot and also know buying expensive skis wont buy ability) any tips? Was hoping to try a little on the S11BB and see how it goes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When I was a child I dreamed I could fly.
This dream repeated itself as I got older.
One day the dream came true.
There's no going back.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PaulC1984 wrote: |
| Where should I start? What skis would you recommend if cost was no issue? (ok so I know I need a snowboard on each foot and also know buying expensive skis wont buy ability) any tips? Was hoping to try a little on the S11BB and see how it goes. |
Perhaps just give it a try? Nothing too steep, nothing where you can't see an obvious way to return to the piste, read the local avalanche report for that day and be patient with your turns (don't try and force the skis around too quickly and don't stomp on your outside ski). Fatter skis will help if you are learning to ski in deep snow, but aren't essential. Perhaps rent a pair for a few days to see how you get on with them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Off piste is fab. Nothing better. I call it "scribbling on the mountain" when you hit an open space of untouched snow and leave your mark.
I am still pretty crap at it, but for me, it's about being away from the crowds, exploring the mountain in your own personal space and the physical sensation.
Skiing of the side of the piste is the way to start on gentle slopes. Bear in mind that in early season the risks include rocks under thin snow (what happened to Michael Schumacher). Some snow is fluffier and easier to ski through, and then the sense is just joyful. A sort of bouncy "whuff whuff whuff" feeling...
Technique is easy to explain but harder to master! I am no instructor. Ignore the "lean back" advice. You still have to get your weight over your skis and finish your turns. BUT you have to keep the weight even. If you put too much weight on your downhill ski, it acts as a brake (think of the the effect-a Pile of snow heaps up underneath your ski and you fall over). I like to think, not of my skis, but of my feet, keeping the sense that the soles of my feet are evenly in contact with the whole of the insole. Plus my nemesis...keep your hands forward...
A bit of speed helps and don't try to hurry your turns.
Choosing a pair of off piste skis is so much a matter of personal choice and preference. Fatter skis certainly make the whole experience so much easier. As a broad generalisation, for a first pair, I'd look a some skis with on piste abilities in the 95mm under foot range, not too stiff and with a reasonable turn radius, still sub 20m. You are going to be popping on and off piste and basically want skis that won't knacker your legs when you ski them on piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Perty wrote: |
Off piste is fab. Nothing better. I call it "scribbling on the mountain" when you hit an open space of untouched snow and leave your mark.
I am still pretty crap at it, but for me, it's about being away from the crowds, exploring the mountain in your own personal space and the physical sensation.
Skiing of the side of the piste is the way to start on gentle slopes. Bear in mind that in early season the risks include rocks under thin snow (what happened to Michael Schumacher). Some snow is fluffier and easier to ski through, and then the sense is just joyful. A sort of bouncy "whuff whuff whuff" feeling...
Technique is easy to explain but harder to master! I am no instructor. Ignore the "lean back" advice. You still have to get your weight over your skis and finish your turns. BUT you have to keep the weight even. If you put too much weight on your downhill ski, it acts as a brake (think of the the effect-a Pile of snow heaps up underneath your ski and you fall over). I like to think, not of my skis, but of my feet, keeping the sense that the soles of my feet are evenly in contact with the whole of the insole. Plus my nemesis...keep your hands forward...
A bit of speed helps and don't try to hurry your turns.
Choosing a pair of off piste skis is so much a matter of personal choice and preference. Fatter skis certainly make the whole experience so much easier. As a broad generalisation, for a first pair, I'd look a some skis with on piste abilities in the 95mm under foot range, not too stiff and with a reasonable turn radius, still sub 20m. You are going to be popping on and off piste and basically want skis that won't knacker your legs when you ski them on piste. |
Awesome thanks muchly. The skiing alone thing is always a problem, as I have no one who wants to try with me - they all want to stay on piste. Hoping the S11BB will sort that though!!
The technique as you describe and from what I have read makes sense, but ive just got to retrain my legs and brain from most weight on downhill ski to keeping weight more even and turning with my upper leg rather than ankles 
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Turning from the ankles by pivotting both feet NOT "turning with my upper leg" is the way forward in powder IMHO.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Turning from the ankles by pivotting both feet NOT "turning with my upper leg" is the way forward in powder IMHO. |
Contrary to what I have read, but i really am in no position to argue - I get the feeling Ill be taking some lessons again this season 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Turning from the ankles by pivotting both feet NOT "turning with my upper leg" is the way forward in powder IMHO. |
in my uneducated view there are loads of ways to make a turn off piste
PaulC - it sounds like you're probably quite a technically proficient skier, if you have raced. I'd join go with the "just do it" advice. You're only looking at minor adjustments to technique esp if you get some fatter skis - 95-105mm underfoot should do it. Then it's a case of evening up the weighting across the skis - doesn't have to be 50:50 but if you feel your outside ski digging in, unweight it a bit. if you tend to drive the tips of your skis hard when initiating a turn, you probably want to dial that back too - give the tips a chance to stay on the surface of the snow. otherwise, i'd just go and have a play and see what feels good
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Makes sense to me. Technically i like every run to feel perfect which i guess is whats always kept me on piste. Time to try; now i have an excuse to buy more skis
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jfdi. On second thoughts don't, it's really difficult and dangerous.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dave of the Marmottes,
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PaulC1984,
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Where should I start?
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If you want to have lessons --- Snoworks is a good place to start.
If you just want to get on with it Skierslodge in La Grave is the place to go ........
Cleverer people than me may disagree -- but skiing off-piste or on is still skiing -- so there isn't really too much difference, and having raced you should have no big issues converting
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You know it makes sense.
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If there is a difference between on- and off-piste skiing, then I think it is this. On piste there is always the desire to want to go faster, to carve the perfect turn, or basically just compete with whoever is around. I find off-piste to be a complete liberation from that. It is more about freedom, away from the madding crowd, and feeling the snow under your feet, at one with nature.
I can hardly believe I wrote that, because I am not that sort of touchy-feely person. but that is why I love off-piste so much. It will be frustrating at first if you are used to being able to master hard snow, and worth getting instruction to help with the different techniques for different conditions - pure soft powder is all too rare.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Peterkct wrote: |
If there is a difference between on- and off-piste skiing, then I think it is this. On piste there is always the desire to want to go faster, to carve the perfect turn, or basically just compete with whoever is around. I find off-piste to be a complete liberation from that. It is more about freedom, away from the madding crowd, and feeling the snow under your feet, at one with nature.
I can hardly believe I wrote that, because I am not that sort of touchy-feely person. but that is why I love off-piste so much. It will be frustrating at first if you are used to being able to master hard snow, and worth getting instruction to help with the different techniques for different conditions - pure soft powder is all too rare. |
touchy feely or not i like the sound of how you put it - thats whats drawing me to it
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Poster: A snowHead
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PaulC1984, I love skiing on piste as much as anyone (and probably more than some) but I know exactly what Peterkct means about the joy of the 'touchy, feely' side of skiing off-piste, especially those days when you score some unexpected powder snow. This was one of the better mornings of last season when we were due to be training on piste but the snowgods surprised us with some fresh:
https://vimeo.com/85041345
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
The skiing alone thing is always a problem, as I have no one who wants to try with me - they all want to stay on piste.
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So try America or Canada. Anything within the ski area is patrolled and avy-controlled and safely skiable by the solo skier.
Also, a number of ski areas run camps or similar aimed at developing off-piste skills.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Likewise Hokkaido, Japan.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| PaulC1984 wrote: |
| ... Where should I start? What skis would you recommend if cost was no issue? (ok so I know I need a snowboard on each foot and also know buying expensive skis wont buy ability) any tips? .... |
I'd start on piste on a powder day at a resort. You can get most of the feel and you're riding on a base 30cms down so it's significantly easier than back country snow. If you go somewhere mainstream you'll have to fight for tracks, but there are lots of less popular places where you can ride fresh tracks on piste days after a storm.
One snowboard is sufficient. Obviously it's pointless wasting powder with skis.
Gear designed for powder makes it easier/ more fun.
As stated, Europe's not the best place for powder in my view. Yes, it's there, but you need a posse and you need to know where it is. Go somewhere that doesn't have the on/ off piste concept, and where there isn't a huge local population, and preferably where the tour operators don't run.
If cost is no issue, do what my dentist did: just hire your own helicopter. Level 4 instruction, fresh tracks all the way, it doesn't hurt when you fall, and smoked salmon sandwiches for lunch, when you want it. Well he is a very good dentist.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| livetoski wrote: |
On skis then hire for the first few times, but remember lots of people skied off piste on 2meter skinny skis and had loads of fun.
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Yeh, I had loads of fun on mine in the 80's, didn't know any better!!!
Best advice is to ski the skis as a unit, 50:50 or however you want to call it, then you won't keep finding the inside ski going off to do its own thing.......
Go for it
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you can race you can probably ski
Off piste pretty well. Choose your day and get some 98mm skis. The hard bit is skiing piste and/or moguls on off piste skis
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It's fun and you don't even need to wear Lycra!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you can carve you shouldn't have any problems converting to off piste - it's the people who are used to skidding who have problems (and you don't have to work to hold the carve - the snow does it for you). In deep light powder you don't have to do much (except balance) but you don't get that a lot. In heavy crusty snow you just have to exaggerate what you do normally.
90-100cm at the waist should be fine for the skis. That's what I ski and I'm off piste about 90% of the time. Don't get enormous powder skis, you want something that will work most of the time. There are a number of resorts where you can ski off piste with a group of your standard with a guide or an instructor. For example Alpine Experience at Val d'Isere. http://www.alpineexperience.com/
If you ski on your own near the pistes you will be missing a lot and any powder will be quickly trashed. It is the experience of going off the back and making the first tracks that will really hook you and the guide will still find you untracked long after the last snowfall, somewhere off by yourselves..
Frankly, with a good guide I feel not only freer but safer off piste with (generally) no ice, or maniacs and skidding beginners to dodge, and it also feels like something natural - interacting directly with nature rather than something man made. There are so many kinds of natural snow. Pistes all seem a bit same-y.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 1-07-14 11:51; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
Don't get enormous powder skis
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Well, at least not at the start.
I did a week's course in Chamonix with Chamex several years ago. I went from ok black run standard to reasonably competent in ok snow on 30 degree slopes within the week. If you have the time and the money then an intensive course is most likely the way to go. I'd recommend either them or Mountain Tracks. Do not do the Skierslodge thing unless you can already ski off piste well - i.e. good itinerary run standard at the minimum. They do not instruct.
I'd hold off buying more gear. What you will want or what will work for you once you are semi-competent is not what you will want at the start. Once you've taken a first step a 100-110 mm ski with tip rocker and a heavyweight freeride binding (like a Baron) becomes a reasonable purchase. Then followed by a dedicated freeride/ or touring boot with tech binding inserts and a touring ski with a tech binding.
Obviously there's a bunch of safety gear to be bought as well but it is better to rent that at the start than to buy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Guides will normally lend you (or rent you) a transceiver, but that is really an early purchase you should go for if you want to go in the off piste direction.
I'm afraid the Dynafit bindings and touring boots I haven't got around to.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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there's a bunch of safety gear to be bought as well but it is better to rent that at the start than to buy
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Given that major factors in the performance of such safety gear is training, experience and familiarity...maybe it is better to buy as soon as you know you'll want it with you?
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maybe it is better to buy as soon as you know you'll want it with you?
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Agreed. I'd still wait and demo rather than buy on spec.
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You know it makes sense.
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gorilla, i probably just misinterpreted your comment
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cheers for all your comments guys, much appreciated. A course is certainly the way to go I think!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PaulC1984 wrote: |
OK, so im 30 this year, and have always done my skiing strictly on piste. did a fair bit of racing when younger, so I just like to carve everywhere. Ive now decided its now or never to try some off piste. I yearn to try, but it all looks hard work (im not lazy) and id be having to master a new art (I love a challenge). Total respect to good off piste skiers it looks amazing.
Where should I start? What skis would you recommend if cost was no issue? (ok so I know I need a snowboard on each foot and also know buying expensive skis wont buy ability) any tips? Was hoping to try a little on the S11BB and see how it goes. |
Next time you go skiing just join an upper level esf class. That's where I started anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cheers - half my problem is all my normal ski pals have kids now so stick to piste. Whilst mine is 2 and not skiing yet, I want to take the chance before im stuck to the piste with child and wife in tow! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PaulC1984, I think this is how esf works for French anyway, and for us also. You drop your kids which is same meeting point as for your off piste lesson, and pick them up at same time and same place.
Esf are not all bad and in fact my experiences have always been very good. They pack some serious skiing into 3 hours, nearly as much as some groups would do in full day. Probably because so many french clients like you are ex racers and generally very good skiers and want a half day of proper skiing before skiing with kids rest of day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One tip: don't ski tentatively because you are afraid it won't work. That's the way to make it not work (except perhaps in very light powder, which is very forgiving, especially if it is on a firmer base).
Plus what others havc said: keep your weight centred and roughly equal on both skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Little Martin, WOW! - enough said
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Two great videos. Now need to go make some turns. Next weekend.
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ulmerhutte, Lucky S@D!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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was in a similar situation (though rather older!) - had mucked around by the side of the piste but never quite got the hang of powder - so this year took the plunge with some friends and did a week's course / guiding with pistetopowder in st anton. conditions were great for us, if not vintage for the resort, and we had a fantastic week - now completely hooked and can't look at a mountain the same way, for all the reasons mentioned above. I'd always wondered why on earth people would trek up a hillside when the resort had kindly put in all those lifts, now I know. we skied in groups appropriate to our ability / experience and met lots of happy solo travellers.
main tip is fitness - the better shape you're in, the more fun you'll have.
enjoy
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travelwomble, Fingers crossed fitness wont be an issue! I joined Nuffield Gym 12 weeks ago. Doing 2 Body Pump sessions, 2 Circuit training sessions and one day swimming a week and my god what a difference. lost nearly 2 stone and ive never felt so fit! Its made a huge difference to my skiing and doing the different sessions means im making all parts of my body work (aka I bloody ache in places i didnt know I had!)
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