 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think it will have much effect, but if the big operators do drop beds those beds will still have to be sold somewhere. Maybe it will be a year for more self-booking.
Dunno why Gove thinks it's any of his business when people take their kids away.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why did you book flights rather than just walk across the Channel?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jesus, F---ing Hell Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gove = GOD!
QED , ...... He wins!
WTF do parents KNOW about "Peak Periods"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they ski, then they pay!............... AND if any TEACHERS ski, then they pay twice as much for February Half Term!!!!! ( Serves them right!!!)
That nice Mr. Gove = dysfunctionalnonskierpolitician
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 12-03-14 20:22; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jesus, there have always been heavily discounted last minute packages - if you book in advance to secure exactly what you want, that's the risk you run. There are plenty of threads on SHs advising that people who are flexible about where they go, and travelling outside school holidays, should leave it till the last minute to book if the budget is tight (or if they want to be sure, before they decide, that conditions in their chosen resort will be OK).
You don't say where you are going but in France, once the school hols are finished (on Saturday, this year) accommodation rented direct is at "low season" prices.
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My thoughts as a taxpayer contributing to the provision of free schooling to children is that they should jolly well turn up to school during term time.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| My thoughts as a taxpayer contributing to the provision of free schooling to children is that they should jolly well turn up to school during term time. |
Agree, or failing that, the parents don't start F***ing moaning when Teachers go on strike 
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I think most kids do go to school during term time, frankly it is a bit silly going to school outwith term time. Just not always necessary to go to school throughout every term time, parents pay taxes too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| scubadancer wrote: |
Agree, or failing that, the parents don't start F***ing moaning when Teachers go on strike |
The thing is, you can't really have a school without teachers but a class with a couple of kids missing probably means the other kids get a bit more time.
I dunno. We took ours out all the time up to 11, when I think we could legitimately say the education side of school was less important (they were streets ahead on everything, and what they missed in lessons they made up very quickly, and they got a lot out of going away, hearing different languages spoken etc).
But after 11 we felt it was (and is) serious enough that we should pay extra to go only in school holidays. We're lucky we can afford it, I suppose.
The point is, it's our decision. What the hell business is it of Gove's?
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Most teachers will say that it is very disruptive to classes if children are taken out in term time. Their irritation is compounded when the parents ask for homework for the children to take with them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If parents really want to save some money, put the kids into private school, who break up nice and early for Xmas, and take them away the week before Xmas every year. Dirt cheap, loads of places available even last minute, and you'll probably save more than the cost of a private education every year from some of the numbers I see banded about on here.
Plus your kids will be further from the influence of Michael Sodding Gove, which has to be worth a couple of grand a year, and most of their mates will know how to ski as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My daughter has had pretty poor supply teachers for the last month for her A level Psychology lessons. How much can I fine the school I wonder!
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| northernsoulboy wrote: |
Dunno why Gove thinks it's any of his business when people take their kids away. |
Because as Education Secretary it is his JOB to ensure that kids get educated.
And in government think, that means they must go to school throughout term time.
I really cannot understand why anybody would have any difficulty with understanding why he thinks it is part of his business.
Whether he is right to ban all deliberate absences or not is, of course, another matter entirely.
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You know it makes sense.
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alex_heney, probably as most parents have this odd view that they know what is right for their children overall better than anyone else - weird I know
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
| jesus, there have always been heavily discounted last minute packages - if you book in advance to secure exactly what you want, that's the risk you run. |
Exactly - as it's our first family trip I wanted to guarantee the resort and accommodation - and be able to bask in the knowledge that it was all booked up. Maybe next year I'll have the snowballs to leave it last minute!
But that brings me back to the point of this thread - as it's been covered elsewhere, it's not really about the right or wrong of taking the kids out of school in term for a holiday (personally, I think whilst at primary school is ok, but beyond that exams start looming) - but more wondering about how the industry will react to Gove...
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Poster: A snowHead
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jesus, when are you going? I booked for the 13 April this season in Jan 2013. It is still more expensive for that week now than when I booked it.
I have seen a number of post reckoning that Easter is low season and you should be able to get good last minute deals. I am watching the prices to see what happens this year, as I am wondering if the rule change will change that.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 12-03-14 23:31; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We're going 23rd March, so out of school hols. I suspect vacancies owing to the Gove effect, more so than last year before the rule was introduced.
l'll be watching what happens to prices across various resorts/TOs/accomm styles as a guide for next season. Assuming of course the kids actually enjoy skiing! They may detest it and plead never to go again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jesus, ah yes seen some good prices for that week. Of course there could be other factors like the rumours about bad snow year earlier on in the season putting people off?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Boris wrote: |
| alex_heney, probably as most parents have this odd view that they know what is right for their children overall better than anyone else - weird I know |
And probably true in most cases.
But there certainly are parents who would not bring up their children responsibly without rules imposed from outside (and some who don't even with those rules of course). So teh government legislate for those, and the legislation of course covers everybody.
But government always think they know better than individuals anyhow 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jesus wrote: |
But that brings me back to the point of this thread - as it's been covered elsewhere, it's not really about the right or wrong of taking the kids out of school in term for a holiday (personally, I think whilst at primary school is ok, but beyond that exams start looming) - but more wondering about how the industry will react to Gove... |
I don't think these rules will actually have all that much of an effect. There never have really been all that many (as a proportion of total wintersports holidaymakers) UK kids during term time. There have always been some, and there still will be some, where parents think a £60 fine is a lot less than the difference in cost, but the proportion is not such that it is likely to make a significant difference IMO.
The simple fact that prices will be way higher during school holidays shows that is when most parents go.
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its not a £60 fine, its £120 PER CHILD PER PARENT! which can add up quickly! Unfortunatly Gove and the education system assume everone has the same job as them. Some of us cannot have holidays in school time, my choice isn't wether to save a few quid, it's either go in school time, or not go at all. My kids get far far more 'life' education and become far more rounded citizens by going on holidays than if they were at home all the time. It's all about 'deflection' of blame. Theres any number of reasons why our education system underperforms, and chronic absenteeism in difficult inner city schools is one of them. Middle class parents going skiing is not, but they are an easy target.
Going back to the Opening question, I think it WILL have a small effect on prices, but not a huge amount.
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There is a simple solution to this.
You educate your child at home but with a part time application to the school.
The part-time application is for the school year minus 2 or 3 weeks (whatever your holiday requirement is).
All this takes is a letter to a head teacher expressing your wish to home ed but with 'part time' schooling.
School still gets their cash.... you get to take your kids out...
https://www.gov.uk/home-education
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Staggering Feb 1/2 term in each region over a few weeks would surely help, spreading the demand for flights over a month instead of a week? I do hope tour ops would charge less for these weeks than the current peak week.
The peak holiday week puts a surge of pressure on UK ski areas as well, mountain and artificial, while mid-week can otherwise be quiet. I think local areas and ski schools would do well from having several weeks of family hols mid-season. I did notice 1/2 term this year for some areas in Central Scotland was a week earlier than most, may have been good for those in the early week.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Boris wrote: |
| alex_heney, probably as most parents have this odd view that they know what is right for their children overall better than anyone else - weird I know |
And probably true in most cases.
But there certainly are parents who would not bring up their children responsibly without rules imposed from outside (and some who don't even with those rules of course). So teh government legislate for those, and the legislation of course covers everybody.
But government always think they know better than individuals anyhow |
Agreed - but they are also the parents (IMHO) who won't take the slightest notice in any case
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well - here's an example of what one company is planning:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/skiing/10694723/MountainBase-ski-company-offers-to-pay-fines-for-parents-who-take-children-skiing-in-term-time.html
Their owner explains clearly the issue around costs for the operator and why the price rises during school holidays:
“People accuse us of ripping families off by charging higher prices during school holidays but we are actually just balancing our books because we can’t fill the spaces outside of the half term holidays.
“From the perspective of a ski company in the Alps, this year there are three weeks of holidays across the whole of the season out of 21 weeks. If we get the majority of our bookings in those three weeks we have to balance our costs for the weeks we don’t get any bookings. So our prices almost double at Christmas and half term.
“Even then we can’t actually meet the requests for places. Our entire half term sold out in September last year whereas we still have gaps now between half term and Easter and Easter hasn’t sold very well because of how late it is this year.”
But is the DT article correct in stating that it is law that you can't take your children out of school for a holiday during term time? I thought it was just a guideline for the school/parents?
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| flangesax wrote: |
There is a simple solution to this.
You educate your child at home but with a part time application to the school.
The part-time application is for the school year minus 2 or 3 weeks (whatever your holiday requirement is).
All this takes is a letter to a head teacher expressing your wish to home ed but with 'part time' schooling.
School still gets their cash.... you get to take your kids out...
https://www.gov.uk/home-education |
French exchange trip 
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You know it makes sense.
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I think there are a couple of issues, hoteliers in the alps (and elsewhere) will charge premium prices for busy weeks and less for quieter weeks 40% difference in prices is entirely possible, onto that you then add air fares the airlines do charge massive price increases for uk holiday flights that coincide with school holiday times the tour operators often seem to add on a premium on top of these prices though
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for this flangesax, do you think it would be accepted realistically? Or would they it as being a disruption....and possibly the beginnings of part time home schooling revolution? I personally think it sounds great....and would suit our circumstances very well indeed. Especially as I had specifically considered homeschooling or having a tutor for a number if weeks whilst abroad.
Ski Famille have put this in place already....apparently one can have a tutor, 5 x 2hr for around £650 per week (quote for my son) in the chalet during term time holidays. Not that I'd pay that...but could be worth it for a larger family. It may also swing the decision to authorise or not.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 9-07-14 18:23; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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To further complicate matters all schools can now decide upon their own holiday dates, another great idea from Gove. This may really start happening in 2015-16. There is the very real potential that headteachers may start setting different holiday dates within the same borough or county. Parents may well find that holidays vary from school to school. Now the sensible thing to do is for schools to stick to the published county dates, but some headteachers already have different dates for holidays. Headteachers are already starting to think they know better than the county, they have their own pet ideas on things like this. This may cause unmitigated chaos for parents trying to manage the care of their children, let alone plan holidays. So Gove allows schools to set their own holiday dates, and he will now try to fine parents if they take their children out of school - brilliant money making idea! In reality I know that some schools will not be fining parents due to the shear idiocy of the situation. So you could find two week half-terms in October, shorter summer hols here and there, two weeks in Feb (or not) and no co-ordination between schools. Nice one Gove.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So schools previously closed for; a sprinkling of snow, training days, strikes, elections, and now a new one, bike races. But you're in deep do do if you want a few days skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Attendance expectation has risen to 95% from 93%
93% can trigger family fines.
74% of students having attendance 95% or above usually meet their target grade.
I believe students should be in school during the term time.
190 days of school. 175 days of holiday (inc weekends)
My other thought is skiing is something which broadens students experiences.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So glad I'm not a politician. Clearly for some people moaning is a hobby. For a large part of Britain and it's beloved "Free Press", it's a national pastime.
"Why oh why do they decide centrally all the holidays are to be at the same time? Bloody Gove"
"Why oh why does he let them take local decisions? Bloody Gove".
(Let's not get further into "School time is for schooling, the other time (apparently 175 days) is family time" discussion on this thread - that's what the other one is for).
You lot do make me laugh sometimes. I enjoy being British just to watch, read and listen to the sheer waste of energy in getting the hump over nothing. If we could harness it, we'd not be running short of power stations, that's for sure.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arctic Roll, my position on this is well known, so I'll stick to your original question. I think the impact on the tourism industry is likely to be extremely small. There may be a limited impact on UK seaside resorts that have no Interntional clients, but I can't see it really impacting the average TO. Some may have to adapt and work with other country's TOs to spreads the holiday periods, but limited effects overall I think.
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JayDub, great... So I need to put all of my prices up now? 
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Take your kids to a dome today to take advantage of an unexpected day off
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I think it has just compounded the peak and off-peak situation.
From my own small anecdotal perspective of renting a very small apartment where I charge around 50% more for half term, christmas and new year - yet could still sell half term many many times over and can barely give the first two weeks of January away.
I won't raise the price of half term any more - but I do wonder how high it would go before getting no takers.
I am in two minds about it. Clearly the government want to crack down on the habitual skivvers. But as always, in taking a hammer to crack a nut they end up harassing caring parents whose kids are probably high achievers anyway. The habitual skivvers know that no-one is really going to fine them from their benefit money anyway.
The old days of explaining why you wanted an absence and what work you were going tot do on holiday and getting the headmasters permission still seem to me to be a more sensible approach.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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emwmarine, .
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Clearly the government want to crack down on the habitual skivvers.
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Without wishing to get dragged into the discussion on the other thread I just wanted to point out that this is NOT what the new rules are aimed at. They are aimed at cutting down on the widespread but low-level absence. I think many of us were also surprised to learn that they are concerned as much, if not more, about absence in primaries than in secondaries.
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foxtrotzulu,
I am sure you are right, my background knowledge of this is very low as we only have one kiddie left in school and she is in the 6th form and can stay behind.
My experience is really only from renting out an apartment and seeing, just from my experience, a huge concentration in the school holidays.
As an aside, does the low level absence really matter a jot in the scheme of things when that low level is probably from high achieving kids anyway. When we were kids we went on the odd holiday with no long term harm done to anyone. When our kids were younger the primary school didn't mind a few days out of the school holiday and was quite supportive.
I remember when we went to Australia for a family wedding the head was very supportive as he thought education at an early age was much broader than just learning your times tables.
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FAQ
it led me to think about what effect Gove's "tinkering" with the guidelines on school absences will have on the industry.
