Tour du Mont Blanc

A snowHead

Hi all,

Hope you've all had a good winter. I was hoping that a Chamonix snowHead may be able to offer some local, 'on the ground' info....

I'm planning on doing the Tour du Mont Blanc this summer with my brother, so long as my legs can get me all the way around! We've taken a bit of a gamble with the dates and are planning on starting the hike around the 17th of June, as that is the only time we could both get off work. I understand from all that I've read that this is considered fairly early in the season to attempt it as there can still be a fair bit of snow around - depending on how snowy a winter it has been (and how warm spring is, I suppose).

I realise it's still not quite the end of the ski season yet (until tomorrow, I gather), and more snow could still fall up high. Plus of course we don't know how warm May and June will have been yet. But how's this winter been snow-wise? Is there a deeper or thinner snowpack left than usual this year? I think I know the answer (I was in Verbier recently), but to be honest I've not kept up to date with the snow conditions for the last month, so I've no idea how it's been since I was last out there.

I know it's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question as we don't know how the thaw will go over the next month and a half, so apologies for that. But hopefully the first half of the question, how snowy was the winter, can be roughly answered as we'd like to know if we're still on track to give it a go...

Many thanks in advance for any info, much appreciated.

Billy M

A snowHead

Billy M, the winter was not a really snowy one, but as you say 17/6 is early. You might want to check the situation with the hut openings. We did it a couple of years back at a similar time. We started in champex and did it in reverse ie clock wise. By the time we got to the last section over the col fenetre back down to champex it was clear, the first high col from the Swiss val ferret to the italian one had some snow but was ok. Doing it early was a great idea, no crowds on the trail, no scrum in the huts and loads of wild flowers.

Also there was no lift running from Courmayeur but that was no hardship.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Billy m
This is the col ferret but looks worse than it was. Mrs jbob did it in trainers.

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I did the tour 3 years ago starting off on the 15 june it had been a snowy winter and there was a fair bit of snow about but the route was open we had some days when it snowed above 1800 meters Re hut opening http://www.montourdumontblanc.com/fr/index.aspx this is a helpfull site there is a lot of stuff on the web that is helpfull.There is a chance i may be doing it again this year about the same time as you I f i can help, pm me

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Many thanks for the replies jbob & brock, much appreciated.

Yes, I have a couple of lists of the huts (contact details, opening dates etc.), and everything seems to point to pretty much all of them being open then, but in some cases only just, so it is clearly about the earliest time it's possible without roughing it a bit more than we're keen on!! So while it is early in the season it does look to be eminently doable. I assume that's subject to change (I guess they may push back opening should it still be very snowy), but with the relatively low snow levels this year that is hopefully not going to happen this summer. I gather the weeks we're planning to do it were still very snowy last year, for example.

Yes, I think that should the conditions prove to be good then it will be a great time to do it, in terms of a lack of crowds both on the trail and in the huts, which is certainly an attraction. Did you book each hut as you went, the previous night?

We may also start in Champex rather than Les Houches, depending on where we leave the car, which is undecided yet. I gather doing it in reverse gives a slightly different experience - different people to meet each night vs seeing familiar faces each night.

That's encouraging to hear brock, thanks for that. And thanks for the link, it's one we have saved - fortunately there seems to be plenty of good information out there, which is very hand for the first timer. I've ploughed through many a tour diary and it looks great, can't wait.....

Thanks for the offer - if I think of anything I'll send you a message. But if you do decide to do it and we've not spoken, then put a reply here and we'll hopefully share a drink somewhere.

Cheers all.

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Billy M, we pre booked the first two nights in a hotel at la fouilly and in the bonatti, after that we just did it the night before. The caf "hut" in les contamines was full so we stayed in a hotel. The Moulin at Montroc was excellent.

We parked in the open right in front of the tourist office in champex with no charge and was told it was ok. It gives an easy first day.

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Thanks jbob, sounds good.

After all it is free

Billy M, I would second the recommendation of the Moulin - the best tartiflette of our trip!

First time I did it, solo. I started at les Houches. Unless you take the lift up, the first few hours, up to Col de Voza, are quite a slog - your legs may be fresh, but mine were also unpractised (although by the end of the day they weren't, after taking all the high variants - Truc etc) I went out with friends a few years later and we started form Champex, which was better as an intro day. We camped the night before and left our car at the campsite for a nominal charge - then used their showers before hopping in the car to start the drive home (with a few stops). We mainly camped, but did also stay at les Mottets - again the food was good.

We did most of the high variants, except Col de Fenetre - because the guidebooks said it was exposed and my wife suffers from vertigo. I've not done the lower level options, so can't compare high and low, but a reasonably fit person should manage them, particularly if you're hotelling/hutting as you'll have lighter packs than we did.

Finally, if your French is up to it, I liked the FFRP guidebook - the side panels are quite interesting.

Billy M, hello, I did it a long time ago as a student with no cash, so divvied and stayed in the tod hut. The best by far was in Trelechams la Boerne http://www.la-boerne.fr/home.htm.

As an observation- why drive and not get the train. Much more relaxed and Champex in particular would be quite easy to get to via London (Ebbsfleet) -Paris-Geneva-Martigny. This would save yourself a very tiring drive home, give the possibility of a nice lunch or dinner in Paris.

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Thanks again for the replies.

Everything I'd read seems to suggest the Bonatti is one of the best huts in the Alps, but thanks to these recommendations we can add a few more to the list - many thanks! The camping the night before and leaving the car there could be a good idea for us as we'll have tents with us from an earlier part of this holiday (although we're not taking them on the hike, huts only!!).

I certainly like the idea of the high variants, and we'll be packing as light as possible, but I think it will be decided more by the state of our legs on the day rather than my ambitions sat here on a sofa!!

The train is indeed a nice idea ed123, but we are driving as it is a part of the holiday as well - we are going to the Le Mans 24hrs on the way down to the Alps and making the journey a bit of a road trip.

Thanks again everyone.

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Billy M, It sounds a great trip - make sure you do a report, with some pictures!

snow reports

Will do pam w.

We did it at the beginning of September 2004. We were lucky that the weather was good and the refuges were still open. However, we carried a tent that we used from time to time.

Yes, by far the smartest is the Bonatti - it was very new then after the previous one had burnt down. But possibly the most memorable was the Chalet des Grands at the foot of the Trient Glacier. It was unmanned and we only made it in because someone else was there with a key.

I think it's manned now:
http://www.refuges.info/point/2900/refuge-garde/mont-blanc/chalet-des-grands/
That's a great site for checking up about the huts.

Another hut worth a (expensive) night for its stunning location is the Chalet du Lac Blanc on the Aig Rouges. Dinner stops while the sun sets over Mont Blanc.

However, our best night was our last, camped up near Le Brevant on the Col de Bel Lachat looking down on Cham. It's still in the park so not strictly legal but we put the tent up late and pulled it down early Wink

You know it makes sense.

It's a stunning trek. Enjoy!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Thanks for the tips and link, altis, much appreciated. Yes, I was reading about the Chalet des Grands and the route it's on yesterday - it certainly seems that the couple of alternative, higher routes available on the Tour are well worth doing, getting you to higher and more dramatic places - surely what it's all about! So hopefully the weather is good (and our legs can cope) and we can do the route over the Fenêtre de l'Arpette and take in that hut...

I love the idea of camping, but I think for us it will be much easier and more sensible to travel light this time and stick to the huts. Especially as at that time of year we shouldn't have too much trouble with crowds and a need to camp as a result of full huts. Hopefully!

Thanks iainm, will do.

A snowHead

I've done the TMB in early-mid June in a big snow year, and it was all passable (albeit plenty of walking on snow above 2000m!), so irrespective of the snow conditions I think you'll be fine. I did it last year in late June (a very big snow year) and we probably had 10km of walking on snow in total, but nothing impassable. The only dicey bits from recollection are the section before you get to Courmayeur (going anticlockwise) and the section just before refuge elena. On both of these there are a few steep snow chutes where an ice axe has been handy in prior years. In total I think I've done it 5 times now!

The Fenetre d'Arpette variante is well worth doing and MUCH nicer than the Bovine route, although the path on that was remade 2 yrs ago so its now a really good trail vs the old mud/rock/tree root path. Fenetre d'Arpette does hold onto its snow until early July most years on the ascent from Champex, but we've never had a route-finding problem. By late June I'd guess a few dozen people will already have made tracks through it. The descent into Trient is fine and doesn't seem to hold snow at all, so even early June is usually fine.

The other refuge that gets overlooked is the Alpage de la Peule. The food here is excellent (I think the cheese is all from their own cows!) although the dorm is just one big room so a tad noisy.

Its a great trek, and if you enjoy trail running, its an even better run!

A snowHead

I'd really recommend the variation going directly from Col de la Seigne to the Refuge Robert Blanc. Great scrambling over the the glacier-smoothed rock slabs. Chains & cables in place to help out. Could be a bit snowy at that time of year though.

It hasn't been a big snow year and it has been a mild winter, but snowfall has been "average" above 2000m.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

stevomcd, from the robert blanc did you go over the col enclave to the lac jovets?

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snowdave, thanks for the post. Certainly sounds promising given the relatively small snow year this winter, if you had few problems after a big snow year. Good news. Yes, the Fenetre d'Arpette I would like to think we'll do as it sounds like it is very much worth the effort, but obviously we'll make a decision on that on the day. We'll add the Alpage de la Peule to the list as well, thanks. Do I take it from that that you've done the UTMB? Nutter!!

stevomcd, I'd not come across that place yet, but having looked at the pics on Google it looks like quite a location it's in!! I see it's something of a side hike type thing - whilst it looks impressive, I think we might avoid adding too much in the way of extra km's to the route. But I'll keep a note of it in case we're feeling strong.

Cheers all.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Not quite the utmb, I've done the CCC (courmayeur to chamonix) a few times but also run the tmb as a 3 day trip and run most sections of it multiple times! I've also hiked it a fewer times in its entirety- my preference is as an 8 day hike camping, or a 3 day run using huts - both very different experiences but both fantastic.

I can't stress highly enough just how much more beautiful the fenetre d'arpette is than bovine - I do both as regular training runs from chamonix and whilst bovine is easier and faster, it's a relatively pointless option because it has none of the high mountain grandeur of the fenetre and really defeats the object of doing a high mountain hike!. Similarly there's some bizarre variant in the kev Reynolds guidebook that cuts out the high ridge walk before refuge bonati - it's a daft variant because if the weather is too bad to do the ridge (it's not steep, it's a wide mountain ridge on which you could graze sheep) there's a much nicer path contouring round below the west face of the ridge at around 2000m with spectacular Mont Blanc views. Instead he suggests a less scenic route to the east.

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I would agree with snowdave, missing the high ridge between the Bonatti and Courmayeur would be to miss one of the very best sections, with magnificent views. When we did it the champex side of the fenetre was very rough, I'm pleased to hear it's been recently improved. The one mistake we did make was to select the low option between Les Contamines and Les Houches.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Hi,
jbob, it's the bovine path that's been improved, not fenetre d'arpette, sorry I was a bit ambiguous in my comment! The last part of the fenetre ascent is still boulders and steep, although the descent to trient is a little better now.
mooney058, it really depends how fit. Marathon fit? What kind of mileage would be a comfortable day in the mountains and still a fun trip? Assuming decent but not marathon fitness:
The easy way to start is to fly to Geneva, then get a minibus transfer or hire car to chamonix, then get the 2-4x daily bus to courmayeur. This leaves you with about 70km back to argentiere. It then all depends whether you've flown in that day and we starting in the pm (thus refuge Bertone is the obvious first night and very pleasant) or whether you are starting in the am in which case bonati is a very easy hike. From there the obvious next stops are la peule then champex (ideally the relais d'arpette to knock half an hour off the next morning but the club alpin in champex itself is really nice and right on the lakeshore) and from champex it's a days walk back to argentiere, we're you can pick up the bus to chamonix and head home. However, realistically that's our days hiking so you'd need to fly home late the last evening.
I think there's a bus along the Swiss val ferret which you could take to just below refuge elena and then make it to la peule on day 1, champex day 2 and argentiere day 3.
Or, if you're all very fit, courmayeur to champex is about 50km and is 8 hrs gentle running!

All this talk of the tmb is making my feet twitch.
For the record the ccc is 80km and 8000m vertical. Maximum respect snowdave.

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Great, many thanks for the advice, Snowdave! The group is not marathon, just 'regular' fit Very Happy

we play football regularly, ski 2-3 weeks a year, one of the guys is just back from a month's trip to Nepal, so just the regular guys who do some sport. The trip is meant to be fun, but half of the group never did actual hiking, as most enjoy going down the mountain on a pair of skis ... We will be taking a train from Paris (most guys are flexible as families/kids/school would be one week away), returning to Paris as well, for an extra day or two to 'recover' the kilos Very Happy

most importantly no one from the group has hiking experience in this area, but there is still some time to prepare for the trip. So physical aspect of a trip is in away secondary, fun and nice scenery is more important

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jbob, nearly.. It's 100km and 6000m vertical. The course is sometime different due to weather, but the official course when i last did it was the full one. I did it one year when it was only 85km and that was quite pleasant, but the last 15km are nasty (up flegere and down again).
For a marathon fit runner, doing the whole 100 or so miles in 3 days is challenging and nice without being absolutely brutal. I did it with a few buddies last year and all really enjoyed it.

mooney058, if you're coming in on the train then I'd consider starting in st gervais or les contamines and going to refuge les mottets, then maison Vielle, then Bertone for the last night, then just an hour the next morning back down to courmayeur for the bus back to chamonix. That would be reasonably chilled and reduce the transportation overhead a little. If you had time on the last day you could take the cable car back to cham instead.

snow reports

Snowdave, would this take us via some higher places like fenetre d'arpette?

snowdave, when my daughter did it they ran up to GM and Montenveres. Shocked

They had snow and strong wind over the col ferret, it was funny watching the trail runners blasting past the TMB'ers with their big boots and big packs. For them due to bad weather they shortened the distance but added vertical. It was the same year the utmb was all in France due to the weather but the ccc managed three countries the same weekend!

You know it makes sense.

mooney058, it would take you over the col des fours variants if you wanted, which shortcuts a bit of dull road walking before refuge des mottets tho I have to admit its one of the few variants I've not done. It gets universally good write ups from those who have. Col des fours is as high as fenetre d'arpette and in a reasonably remote area. Mottets refuge has everything from dorms to twin bed en suite rooms and we had an excellent dinner. The col de la seigne the next day is also beautiful.

jbob, we had a similar experience when I ran the TMB last June there was still solid snow on the ground over the col du bonhome, and white out blizzard conditions. However, we were travelling at a reasonable pace so shorts and t shirts were still fine - every now and again we'd encounter a TMB hiker looming out of the mist, universally dressed like Edmund Hillary. I suspect they all thought they were hallucinating as 4 blokes in t shirts and shorts ran past them!

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snowdave, thanks once again, that is basically my route sorted. Now just a couple of months waiting.

A snowHead

I was in the alps last summer in June and although a fairly mild winter there was still a fair sprinkle of white stuff on the highest peaks. This year with an even milder winter you should be okay to leave the crampons at home (depends how high you go...) as most of the snow will have disappeared. If in doubt the cru team do a pretty good job of updating the snow reports - http://www.cruchaletschamonix.com in realtime at both chamonix and further up col ferret. So you can get a pretty good idea of current conditions. PS - just a little bit jealous... wink

A snowHead

snowdave & jbob, a quick question for you if I may. I'm just going through all the tips listed here and adding some notes to the guide book and I just want to confirm I've understood what you're saying about the Courmayeur to Bonatti section correctly...

I gather there's 3 options (listed here from west to east):

1 - Path that contours round below and to the west of the Mont de la Saxe (listed in the guide book as the 'new' route of the TMB, and thus the one to take)
2 - Path that takes the high route, by following the crest of the Mont de la Saxe and up to Tete de la Tronche (listed in the guide book as the 'old' route of the TMB)
3 - Miss out the Mont de la Saxe ridge entirely by using the path to the east of it, in the Val Sapin and up to the Col Sapin (listed in the guide book as a variant)

Am I right in thinking that, weather permitting, your recommendation is to follow the 'old' route along the ridge of the Mont de la Saxe (option 2 above)? And failing that use the flank to the west (option 1 above) as the back up in bad weather? And to ignore the Val Sapin route (option 3 above) altogether? That would certainly make sense as while it sounds more difficult as it climbs much higher (and so more susceptible to bad weather), the ridge certainly sounds like the favourite option for views/scenery.

Many thanks

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Col de la Seigne to Robert Blanc isn't a side-trip, it's a short-cut! You can go to Col de l'Enclave from the Refuge more-or-less directly. Saves you a big descent down to Les Chapieux in the Vallée des glaciers, then a massive climb back out and over the Col du Bonhomme. The Vallée des glaciers is pretty dull, and if you're up for a more adventurous route, I'd really recommend the Robert Blanc variation. I suspect elapsed time might not be much different as the terrain is a lot more challenging, but way better than a plod all the way down to the valley, then all the way back up the other side!

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Billy M, Route one contours and ends at plampincieux, we did it as a day outing from Courmayeur this winter and is pleasant enough and might be a good option if you aren't staying in Courmayeur and wanted to crack on.
Route two and three both start the same, climbing up from the refuge bonatti into a high lonely valley turn right then up to col sapin, if it's nice a short climb bearing right gets you on to the wonderful saxe ridge, it's broad and grassy with fantastic views, plus you pass the bertone ref for a quick drink, IMHO only if things have gone pear shaped weather wise would you go straight over the col and down to finish on route three. My description is for the clockwise route and starting the day at ref bonatti.

I haven't done the col de enclave but it looks on the map to be tremendous, high and wild. We dropped right down to les chapieux and had a very nice lunch sitting out in the sunshine, unfortunately it was followed by a tedious 1000 m climb to the Bonhommie where because we volunteered to help move a yurt were treated to some free beer. The Bonhomme is great, we were also treated to some bouquatain fighting outside.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

There is another variant marked here as variante, over the col de fours, which avoids the long decent and reascent, but you would miss the lunch. If I did it again I would do this variant.

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This is the pt col ferret today!!

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Billy M, yes, 2 is 'best' route for me, and 1 is fallback. 2 is one of my favourite parts of the route.

After all it is free

Thanks jbob & snowdave. Good stuff, it's all straight in my head now, cheers. And great to see there's still some good skiing to be had, jbob!! Brilliant. Although I hope you don't mind too much if I selfishly wish some of that snow to disappear in the next month!!

Yes, I've got the Col des Fours pencilled in as the intention in that corner as everything seems to point to it being by far the more interesting route than via Les Chapieux.

stevomcd - aaaahhhhhh I see. I didn't realise that it was possible from Robert Blanc to go over the Col d'Enclave, or indeed directly to Col de la Seigne in the other direction. It all becomes clear now. My map (Rando Editions, A1 Pays du Mont-Blanc, 1:50,000) doesn't have that route on it, the only route to or from the Robert Blanc it shows is a one way track from Refuge des Mottets. So I had no idea there were other options, I just thought it was a dead end track from Refuge des Mottets!! In fact, looking at Google Maps it seems to show these paths better than the hiking map does!!!!

So, I take it then that in fact you can go from Col de la Seigne directly to Refuge Robert Blanc then on to Col d'Enclave? That looks to go over the Glacier des Lanchettes and we won't have any 'gear' with us - a potential problem? And then pick up the path from there down past Lacs Jovet to La Balme? (or the reverse if going anti clockwise). Thus cutting out the supposedly less interesting Bonhomme--Chapieux/Fours--Val des Glaciers area entirely. Interesting.

Anyway, thanks again everyone, much appreciated.

You inspired me to dig out my log from 2004. We went anticlockwise starting in Les Houches. The bit up/down the valley was our last day's sightseeing.

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Billy M, a new route was created a few years ago from Col de la Seigne to the Robert Blanc. This passes below the glacier snout, over terrain which was formerly glaciated and now consists of ice-smoothed rock slabs. The Bourg Saint Maurice Bureau des Guides added chains and cables in many places, making it easier to scramble over the slabs. It's a really interesting walk/scramble and much more fun than the muddy plod down to the valley and back. I did it a few years ago and spent the night in the refuge in October. There was quite a bit of early snow on the slabs, which made things quite challenging! Got to the hut just as darkness fell, having had to push on through a herd of Ibex to get there. Great trip!

I haven't gone up to the Col des Enclaves myself, but there's a path marked on the map and I don't see any obvious difficulties. You pass below the Glacier des Lanchettes, no need to cross it. I'd get hold of the relevant 1:25000 maps, the 1:50k French maps aren't great sometimes.

Help!!

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