 Poster: A snowHead
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Iv'e just had my first experience of a dry ski slope. I was competing in a slalom race as part of my university ski team. I found it really hard.
It seems to me to be impossible to edge effectively on a dry slope, yet I saw people today skiing extremely well as if they were on snow.
Does anyone have any tips for dry slope skiing? I would really appreciate some help for next time I go!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to snowHeads george 
There are some people around here with lots of dry slope experience.
Do u know what surface it was?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks PG, that makes me feel a lot better! It seems it just takes practice to get the proper dry technique.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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george stern, get to your nearest slop and join the race club. Soon you won't notice the difference !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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er sorry, SLOPE ! 
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George, the delights of my first Kings race also left me a little perplexed. Had done a small amount of racing growing up but gave up about 5 years before going to uni and had concentrated solely on snow skiing (and a brief and ill-advised encounter with a snowboard). When I got to uni I thought I'd start it up again, more for the social scene than everything else. Anyway, at the first training session I couldn't ski for toffee. Took over a month to get any kind of racing technique back, purely because (as MB says) I was now a fat student. Don't let it put you off though, it comes with time. And the Charmaine helps. 
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George, I also learnt to ski on snow and when I got home felt the need to ski more often and began attending my local dry slope. I got invited to race training and within 2 hours or so found myself adjusting my technique. Now I love dry slope skiing almost as much! Keep at it! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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george stern, your experience is, as you will have gathered, not uncommon. I wouldn't care to argue with Martin Bell with regard to ultimate skiing, but as you have observed it is possible to ski to a pretty high level on plastic.
It is interesting to see what happens when we get the occasional visitors from an Alpine country who have never been on plastic but are clearly very good snow skiers. They tend to struggle for a few runs but then get the hang of it and start skiing.
I'm not sure what it is, but I suspect that part of the problem may be that you travel more slowly on plastic at a given gradient, so the mind/body has to "adjust" to this in some way. It's not that the technique is different, it's to do with the timeframe within which things happen and the feedback you get from the surface.
death*on*the*roof, do we know each other?
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Alan Craggs,
Arguably the greatest skier who has ever lived, Ingemar Stenmark, was once invited to the All-England Championships at Gloucester, and by all accounts he got the hang of the plastic fairly quickly!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Martin, I hope someone got some good photos of that appearance because that's quite a story! In terms of sharpness of edges I seem to recall that Stenmark was unique in demanding full sharpness from tip to tail. I guess the sharper the edges you're using on the plastic the quicker the slope is going to go bald - a major factor for the slope operator.
I've skied on almost all plastic ski surfaces since the 1960s and have not found better edge bite than on Dendix (or the similar Ski Tech) but the grid-type surfaces are going out of fashion because of the thumb sprain problem.
It seems that Briton Engineering are doing quite well with Snowflex (a continuous carpet-type surface), but I don't know the respective market shares. Snowflex seems to have been widely used on recent slope renovations we've reported on snowHeads.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martin Bell, well there are skiers and then there are skiers I guess ! I wonder if anyone has any pics - maybe worth highlighting a request for such in a higher profile way?
Many years back I had an "adjustment" period when switching from snow to plastic and vice versa, but these days I just go from one to the other without problem (other than the groan of going back to plastic  ), certainly far less so than when switching from skis to blades, which seems to take me about 3 runs before I get standing properly and eliminate the "wobbles", even though I know "mentally" what to expect.
Not had a chance to ski Snowflex but I have heard tell that it's hard to get an edge into it.
And David, our mutual mate Ali always recommended tip to tail sharpening - in true Scottish style why pay for a full edge and then blunt part of it? Aye.
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Although I learnt to ski on a Dendix slope, I did find it very difficult to come to terms with the steeper, and spray lubricated slope at High Wycombe. I use to lose it (the edge) all the time, and it took me a fair while to ski it with any fluency.
I have a video session of a couple of us skiing on the dry slopes at High Wycombe. I may post if I can render the clips to a suitable size.(Thanks in advance to Alan and Alex!)
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You know it makes sense.
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I've just come back from having a lesson at Plymouth dry ski slope, but feel somewhat grumpy about it. It's hard work. The mats are in a poor condition, the skis are horrid (I'm not taking mine) and the teaching a bit vague. On holiday we were being taught to carve, and check speed by 'completing the turn'. At the dry slope they were teaching us to check our speed by skidding a bit before making a turn. But it was impossible to get any speed up and I felt I was working my legs hard and this didn't seem correct.
I'm all grumbly about it and can't see how this is going to help.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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A common theme seems to be that very sharp edges help. I'm a bit worried about taking my own skis though. Will it damage them in any way? Also what should I do to the bases? Leave the wax on, take it off, does it matter?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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george stern, Your skis will suffer - but they will be much better than the slope skis, and you'll get some more use from them - or look on ebay for a cheap second pair.
They will suffer in two ways. The first is that - you'll need to keep the edges sharp, so the will wear away quite fast - having a left and right ski allows you to swap them around so you can keep one set of edges for when the others have gone.
The second is, if your slope does not have a misting system, the bases will take a beating because of the heat generated - to be honest of the slope really is that dry, then I will use slope skis. To mitigate this you can apply one of the really really hard waxes (Polar-X from Data). Over time you'll fine the bases wear away faster than the edges (railing), this resullts in skis that go in a straight line - not nice. A quick wizz over a grinder sorts this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I Don't like the sound of that seeing as my skiis have only three days use on them. I skied on a railed pair once and I'm not keen to repeat the experience. Guess I'll just have to go with the three year old, blunt, slope skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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george stern, have a look on ebay for a second pair ! The children I coach improve by about a second, over a 8 second course. For me the difference between sharp and old skis, and sharp and new ones is about 1/2 a second. If I use slope skis, the result is a DNF.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Martin Bell said
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Alan Craggs,
Arguably the greatest skier who has ever lived
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Praise indeed for our Alan?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And some more praise for Alan (although from someone not really qualified to say...)
When I went to Castleford for the snowHeads meet, I was expecting Alan to be there. Although we'd never met, and I'd never seen a photo of him, I picked him out of all (not just snowHeads) the other skiers there. He was the only one who skied like an instructor rather than "one of us" 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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High Wycombe clips(2+MB)as promised. There's even one of Martin Bell doing the Ski Sunday bit(3+MB) piste preview of High Wycombe.
Ok, it was me. I can dream a bit can't I?
There's not much carving going on I'm afraid, just the usual skidded turn, but the skiing appears (feel free to disagree!) to be more fluent than the real snow skiing in the St Anton clips.
PS If you listen carefully in the first clip, you can hear the birds(feathery kind) chirping in the background.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Are the links working ok? Or is there something wrong with my media player.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Links worked fine but took a while to download. There's a slight strobing effect of the dendix and the camera zoom near the end of the first clip. Epileptics beware.
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In response to Alan Craggs, I don't think I know you. My name's Emma. But you may know my older brother Mike. He used to work at the slope a while back 
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You know it makes sense.
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death*on*the*roof, would that be the same "mad Mike" who now works in London and is into telemarking these days? - if so then we have met I think. If it's the other Mike then I don't think that we have.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Alan - what exercises on the dry ski slopes would you recommend for someone trying to get to grips with short turns? My top ski tries to get in the way, so there is an inclination for my skis to cross. What am I doing wrong? (see how I blame my gear...!) Any tips ? I have been practising pivoting, as you suggested ages ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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This is the last of the plastic series(1.5mb). Is it my imagination or is there a bit of carving going on in this clip?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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erica2004, You ski 'tries to get in the way' ?
What is the first movement you make with you new outside/turning/uphill ski ?
When you finish one turn, are you standing on the midlle/front or back of the ski ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think this is what I do -: I pole plant, weight top ski, turn, pole plant, weight top ski...it's between the turns where my top ski wobbles. I know you're all going to say I'm doing it wrong.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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erica2004, at the advice given by the good people on here I bought the "All Mountain Skiier" book that they were hyping, and it seems a good read.
One point that I picked up, that I hadn't been told in countless ski lessons, is that you can't just leave the inside ski to do it's own thing whilst you're using the outside ski to do most of the work. The inside ski needs "steering" (basically twisting/pushing with your leg) into the same direction as the outside ski.
Something else to worry about 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Martin, I hope someone got some good photos of that appearance because that's quite a story! |
David, there may be shots of Stenmark at Gloucester somewhere in the files of the English Ski Council, or if you can track down John Shedden he may still have some photos of that period. It was quite a coup to bring him over (I believe Bojan Krizaj was brought over the following year) and something that would seem less possible nowadays.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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erica2004, Not at all ! Without seeing what you do it's very difficult to suggest too many things...... I think you are starting the new turn by steering/turning/stemming the top ski - which causes it to cross the other one.
On plastic we all like to start the new turn very quickly - usually because the edge of the slope is only a mat or so away ! When practising short turns, you'll naturally want to start the turn quicker, because short = quick !
Usually this is achieved by starting your new turn by turning the top/outside ski in the direction of the new turn. This can lead to the skis crossing.
How short are your short turns ?
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"One point that I picked up, that I hadn't been told in countless ski lessons, is that you can't just leave the inside ski to do it's own thing whilst you're using the outside ski to do most of the work. The inside ski needs "steering" (basically twisting/pushing with your leg) into the same direction as the outside ski." (quoting button didn't work)
marc gledhill, I don't agree with with this. If you have NO weight on the uphill/inside ski it will go along with the other one. The problem is that most recreational skiers do keep a LITTLE weight on it (sort of hedging their bets), and that's what causes the problem with crossed skis.
There are techniques for double carving and keeping weight on the inside ski, but these are not part of this discussion.
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most recreational skiers do keep a LITTLE weight on it
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Yep, that's what I was taught. The more lessons I have - the more confused I get
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alan Craggs,
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FAQ
) so we don't get sued.
)
I think "arguably" is the operative word here .... 
). They cross because either they're going in opposite directions - ie you have physically turned one but not the other at the same time, or they are both on their inside edges and are weighted - the curse of the vestigial plough/stem turner or they are going in the same direction but the outside ski is turning much more strongly than the inside ski.
