 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone,
I'm a skiier, around level 8 in ability on that 14 level chart whatever it's name is that Snowheads linked to.
Doing my first forays into freeriding this winter, one of the things I found the most difficult was traversing. I have no problem staying on the traverse, but found myself in trouble with regulating my speed. The paths we took were basically just ski wide, so there is no space to shred any speed, and I found myself either accelerating far beyond the people ahead of me and risking running into them, or just losing control when the bumps became very high and combined with a lot of speed with nowhere to go.
Any tips or vid links would be apprecaited.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Scrub with pivoting your tips uphill and kinda smearing the traverse. This f**ks it up and results in massive moguls eventually and a real PITA for slowboarders but that's their lookout for having a poor traversing implement 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You're right, it's not easy!
1) leave p.l.e.n.t.y of room ahead.
2) put your downhill ski in the track and balance on it then scrape your uphill ski along the soft snow above the track.
3) when all else fails, abandon the track and head up into the soft stuff - that's what the first skier along was using.
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Err.. what's freeriding? Is that when you haven't paid for a lift pass
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Most people here just seem to put in a lower traverse line, not cause it's bumpy but because they can't hold the higher line. It annoys me no end. 
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4) Plan ahead. Use areas where you can to knock off the speed to allow you to stick to the track through tricky bits.
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DisconnectedAG, I'm about the same level and also struggle with traversing. When out with an instructor/guide last week, he told me that I needed to get my weight forward, put most of my weight on the downhill ski, and have my shoulders facing down the mountain. I did find digging in the downhill ski helped with speed but I'm a long way from feeling like I've nailed the technique!
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@Gämsbock, that doesn't make any sense. You're going sideways, by nature, so you can't have your shoulders down the ski. And the problem is a mogul type environment where you can't make turns, so I'm not sure we're talkin gabout the same thing. When it comes to going downhill in the off piste, I am also a beginner, but there I agree about the position and so on. My off pow skis (Bacons) demand a fairly centred position (not too drive-y), but the overall yes...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Handy Turnip, It's when you hide in your friend's backpack to save money. It's a bit awkward in chair lifts, but then you can split the costs for the pass, so it's actually great.
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DisconnectedAG, it felt counter-intuitive to me as well, but he said it several times. That doesn't mean he was right, but the point he seemed to be trying to make was about balance, i.e. if I put my shoulders in the right position and kept my weight forward, I would be balance and so in a better position to control my speed. I think we are talking about the same thing - I'm also referring to a bumpy traverse where you can't turn.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DisconnectedAG, yes, you can and should have your shoulders down(ish) the hill.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DisconnectedAG, 
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Nice and forwards and knees well bent to soak up the bumps and remain stable. Small pivoting movements to steer the tips uphill and smear your progress/scrub speed. Weight on downhill ski, allowing both skis to be used as breaks (snowplough has application here if there is space!). Plenty of space between you and skier in front of you. Don't be afraid to leave the track for the soft stuff to slow down/avoid obstacles.
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't get the 'shoulders facing down the mountain' business either. That effectively causes a kind of torque between your upper and lower body, making your skis want to seek the fall line, which is not what you want here - you want to keep going perpendicular to the fall line. You do want to get your upper body leaning out from the hill slightly (so your centre of mass is over your downhill ski), but facing in the direction you're going.
I have to say these icy, bumpy traverses are never pleasant, but you often have to do them if you want to get to the good stuff. My speed control technique is to use the uphill ski as a brake where possible (carefully!), as others have mentioned, and to take my own line when things get too nasty (after all, there's nothing sacrosanct about that particular track, it's just where the first skier down there chose).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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J2R, not down the hill, somewhat down the hill. I assure you, on a traverse, bumpy or not, across a steep slope, it works.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, I have no doubt you do this stuff better than I do, so I'm curious - what do you find this technique 'buys' you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| J2R wrote: |
| @under a new name, I have no doubt you do this stuff better than I do, so I'm curious - what do you find this technique 'buys' you? |
It helps keep you on the edges
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| It helps keep you on the edges |
I'm familiar with counteracting (turning my upper body to 'face the base') while skiing to get this effect (a tighter carve). Just can't see how it benefits in a traverse. But I'll have a play with it next time I'm faced with one of these traverses.
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J2R, wot Mosha says. I'm rubbish at explaining why, it kind of allows your skelton/musculature to more easily effect better edge angles.
Which leads to greater stability in the traverse.
Anyhoo, who knows? Who cares? Seems to work...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was taught to traverse - but I suspect it's often neglected these days, like side slipping. I was taught weight on lower ski, uphill ski in front, uphill arm in front, and the steeper it is the more you need to turn the shoulders down the hill to angulate and get the uphill edge of the downhill ski biting. It's a very stable position (and one I find a lot easier than the turning at the end of the traverse  )
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pam w is right - facing down the hill in a traverse is a much more stable position than staying square to your skis. When you stay square there tends to be less pressure on the inside of the downhill ski, and more of an inclination to allow the tail of the downhill ski to wash out - at the same time this ski often creeps ahead of the uphill ski, allowing the hips to turn in towards the hill, and causing the inside ski to slide back.......which often means the next thing that happens is the inside ski gets caught on a bump, you loose control and find yourself sliding backwards down the hill! 
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We seem to be discussing two different scenarios:
1) traversing a steep piste with bumps
2) traversing off piste along a bumpy track made by the passage of skiers
From the OP's description, I think he means the second.
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Most people focus toward the uphill in this circumstance, for security, but it doesn't really work well, unless you want to reduce speed by taking a shallower line altogether. ie. leaving the traverse line you're on.
So head the other way: use the downhill side of the traverse line.
One way to think about it is to hang your tails over the edge of the traverse. This puts the powerful part of your edges (the bit under your foot) on the ridge-edge of the traverse track. This actually gives you something to grip and hence the power to slow yourself down. Another way to describe it would be to 'rail-slide' the downhill edge of the track.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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altis, not sure there needs to be much of a distinction , other than a bumpy traverse track rather constrains your options. You still don't want shoulders square to direction of travel
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| altis wrote: |
| From the OP's description, I think he means the second. |
That's what I've been referring to, certainly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| admin wrote: |
| One way to think about it is to hang your tails over the edge of the traverse. This puts the powerful part of your edges (the bit under your foot) on the ridge-edge of the traverse track. This actually gives you something to grip and hence the power to slow yourself down. Another way to describe it would be to 'rail-slide' the downhill edge of the track. |
This is OK if what you have is a nice clean ledge, but often you have a deep rut which simply won't allow this. I think the problem most people have is that they feel trapped within a narrow track with insufficient room to do any of the normal braking manoeuvres.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| J2R wrote: |
| admin wrote: |
| One way to think about it is to hang your tails over the edge of the traverse. This puts the powerful part of your edges (the bit under your foot) on the ridge-edge of the traverse track. This actually gives you something to grip and hence the power to slow yourself down. Another way to describe it would be to 'rail-slide' the downhill edge of the track. |
This is OK if what you have is a nice clean ledge, but often you have a deep rut which simply won't allow this. |
Irrelevant: that's when the technique is at it's most beneficial. The deeper the rut, the more pronounced the edge and hence the more useful it is.
May I suggest that you may be looking for the flaw rather than trying to understand the method? - I spent the whole of last week off-piste in Serre Che, Montgenevre and La Grave; there had been no new snow for over 2 weeks by the time we left so trust me, I know my rutted traverses
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| I think the problem most people have is that they feel trapped within a narrow track with insufficient room to do any of the normal braking manoeuvres. |
That's exactly right. Hence, get out of the hollow, whether it's a ridge or a traverse, and up onto (or even over) the edge where you can control your skis properly.
I learnt this many years back when watching 'hapless hopefuls' hurtle down the very concave track on the ridge towards the grand couloir in Courchevel, mostly out of control, most of the way. Then an instructor gracefully rode the edge of the track in complete and intricate control every inch of the way - ping! 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 19-03-14 12:22; edited 3 times in total
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As I thought then...
Usually, these tracks are not steep so little or no edging is required - you can just rattle along the bottom of the trough.
However, they are full of traps for the unwary. Concentrate most of the time on what's immediately in front of you. Stay centred so that you can quickly make extreme movements to stay on the track. At easier moments take in what's further away so you can plan ahead.
To slow down gently, try to keep the downhill ski in the trough and run the uphill ski through the softer stuff. To brake more, tip your uphill knee outwards and scrape powder from the uphill side onto the track. This requires good balance and core strength and you need to be able to put two skis back in the trough quickly when things get tough. Plan ahead!
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You know it makes sense.
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Some good food for thought there. I 've got much better at these traverses than I used to be and don't fear them as I once did, but anything which makes them more comfortable is always welcome.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| altis wrote: |
| To slow down gently, try to keep the downhill ski in the trough and run the uphill ski through the softer stuff. To brake more, tip your uphill knee outwards and scrape powder from the uphill side onto the track. |
Now this is where I disagree.
IMO, trying to use your uphill ski for braking like this is asking for trouble. I'm not saying that it can't be done, it can be OK momentarily here and there, but not something to be relied upon as the more speed you need to scrub off, the more weight comes off your downhill ski and the more unstable you become. It's not the sort of situation where I like to have my skis pointing in different directions to each other.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thread seems to be back on track to the right question, now it's just fine tuning.
When traversing off-piste I always use the soft snow to slow down, one foot in the powder/both up in the slush/quick detour.... hard to do much else if a plough's not on the cards
I would also agree with altis, uphill ski in the junk, certainly can't drop the downhill into it, it'll just slide away from you with the soft stuff and you'll either have to load all your wait on the uphill one quicksharp or clamber back up in embarassment. Not totally sure about scraping the snow down though, i tend to just put more weigh uphill the more i need to slow down, worstcase scenario it breaks aways and you drop back onto the track.
If you need to stop quick its a sharp detour up the hill in my book.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DisconnectedAG wrote: |
| I have no problem staying on the traverse, but found myself in trouble with regulating my speed. The paths we took were basically just ski wide, so there is no space to shred any speed, and I found myself either accelerating far beyond the people ahead of me and risking running into them, or just losing control when the bumps became very high and combined with a lot of speed with nowhere to go. |
Suspect the reason you are going faster than the others is because you are leaning back. Getting your hands forward so you can see both of them in your peripheral vision can help.
Putting one foot uphill in the soft is a good way to slow down but you need to be careful not to hit something (rock, crud, refrozen track) or you could end up spinning. If the uphill snow is anything but soft and fluffy it might be better to go uphill (out of the track) with both skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DB wrote: |
| Suspect the reason you are going faster than the others is because you are leaning back. Getting your hands forward so you can see both of them in your peripheral vision can help. |
It could be something as simple as weighing more than the others and/or having longer skis, though, couldn't it? I ski on skis 10cm longer than my partner's, and weigh more than her, and in a schuss I always end up going faster than her.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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heavy and long skis, that'll do it! and waxing etc... it's the eternal issue on traverses, run in the back or lose all your speed... frustrating! just like everyone in the world who seems to walk slower than me 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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J2R,
Yes it could be heavier skier weight, or longer and better waxed skis too. I can remember my first forays into offpiste, I wasn't the heaviest or have the longest skis but boy did I pick up speed on the traverses. My natural reaction was to shy away backwards away from the track. Getting my hands forward helped me get off my heels.
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Why is too much speed a problem? You’re on a traverse so you’re not going that fast – well not fast in terms of the speed you would travel at on a regular piste.
The problem is twofold. Loosing balance in the bumps and waves- this is a balance problem. Take some mogul lessons, or a bit of practice in the park may help.
The other problem is running into the back of the others in the group. Be first after the instructor … You won’t run into the back of the guide. He will be going fast along the traverse. If you are in the middle or back of the group, it is much more difficult.The first person glides to a halt and then five others stop while still on the traverse and all of a sudden your stopping distance is reduced by ten or twelve meters. Ask the others in the group to step off the traverse when they have come to a halt so that those behind have somewhere to stop.
A guide explained this procedure to a group I was with last season and pretty soon we were all traveling along traverses much faster.
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J2R, I should think your partner would rather you went in front. It's very intimidating not to say frightening being caught up by someone bigger, heavier and possibly slightly out of control! My OH goes in front...I have been known to have to bale out rather than crash into him if he falls though. Always bale uphill.
Like the ladies above I was taught to traverse in a relaxed flexible forward, knees bent stance with top ski ahead, most of the weight on lower ski but always ready to adjust as necessary, and shoulders facing downhill pivoted at the waist, hands forward poles parallel for balance but always soft and flexible and reactive to the snow depth and the terrain, not stiff. To slow down just gently slide slip with the tails or one tail off the track downhill when you can. Leaning back makes you go faster.
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| snowyowl wrote: |
| I should think your partner would rather you went in front. It's very intimidating not to say frightening being caught up by someone bigger, heavier and possibly slightly out of control! |
I was actually referring to on-piste schussing above. I always do go in front on traverses, and I go much faster than my partner (but, I would say, still in good control ). I still don't manage to quite keep up with guides I've skied with, though, who have gone at an amazing pace on these traverses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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J2R, That's good!
And do you keep up with Lewis Hamilton in the motorway? You don't have to keep up with the guides. It gives them some perverse pleasure to outrun their clients. 
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Surely you're not suggesting Lewis breaks the speed limit, are you?  No, I know I don't have to keep up with the guides, but it's good to keep within sight of them!
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