an experiment.

A snowHead

Having just this afternoon broken my tibia I want to try an experiment in old school healing.

Stats: 60, 205lbs, bmi 27.5 (lardier than I want) and genuinely 'big boned' had a bone density scan prove it. I want to see how fast I can recover without immobilizing the break completely or taking modern medication or pain killers . . . A sort of medieval approach to rehabilitation.

I know this sounds like rule 5+ but I have a 'limited' background in sports medicine and am an avid lay consumer of medical research to that field, much of which is saying that we molly coddle our injuries and that we really should be (with care) applying rule 5, but that our overuse of analgesics to mask healing and pain can lead us to extending the damage and healing time.

I'll start documenting progress tomorrow.

A snowHead

Ow is all I can say to that.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

anarchicsaltire, life is a terminal disease, buggered if I'm not going to fight it. wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Masque, oh dear. How bad? What happened?
And WTF are you thinking of? Depending on the severity of the break I can understand not wanting to fully immobilise, assuming you are absolutely religious about keeping the weight off it. What does your doc say?

I didn't have pain relief after the first 2 weeks and as long as my leg was immobilised and had been "fixed" and there was no weight bearing there was no need. I'm not convincef I needed meds while in hospital either but I wasn't about to try and find out.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Masque, I understand the "no analgesics" argument but in the olden days a lot of fractures, whilst they mended, didn't mend quite right - or so I gather from various "forensic archeology" programmes on TV. My fractured pelvis mended just fine and I didn't need much medication - and the doctor told me that weight bearing wouldn't do it any harm (hurt like hell though, so I didn't do it except by accident when being cack-handed with the crutches) but it had been X-rayed and was all in the right place. Are the bits of your tibia in the right place?

Good luck with it - look forward to your bulletins.

Why do I have a powerful mental image of Baldrick on a pair of hand-hewn crutches?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Masque, Fingers crossed for a good recovery for you here. Well as much as I can at the moment. My take on the experiment: I can sort of see where you are coming from, but be careful. I guess it depends on how bad is the injury - is it a crack, a full thickness break, is it stable, will it stay stable if you use it etc? Also, how will get on with medical insurance if you have ignored medical advice and then made it worse?

I must admit though that I have some sympathy for your train of thought. I also try to avoid a conventional approach, 5 weeks ago I did something robustly knackering to my hand - it swelled like a balloon for a few days. The thing is that A&E is 35 minutes away and I faced the prospect of a 4 hour visit once getting there and then the possibility of being plastered which would mean I couldn't drive over a few very busy weeks where I needed to. So I strapped it, took a minimal amount of painkillers and it went down. Currently I have fair mobility, full feeling, but I can't splay the fingers and lift a weight without pain across the knuckles. So after 5 weeks when it should be getting better I have reluctantly booked a GP visit for Tuesday when I expect I shall be dispatched to A&E for Xrays. I just hope I haven't risked a long term problem by not going sooner and doing the 'conventional' thing. That is my concern for you so please be careful.

After all it is free

Jonathan Bell, Fracture is just above the right ankle, single with no radiating or secondary cracks or fracturing. It is apparently complete but non-displaced (boots were nice and tight), the Fib is ok with no apparent fracture or pain. I did discuss this with the ER dock and I'm staying close by should anything head in the wrong direction. The airboot is enough to stabilize the area without the rigidity or support of a full cast. Had it been any worse this would not have been my approach to this.

There is and could be felt, some ligament strain but no tears. Most of the current pain is just a straightforward strong ache and while I'm advised that I should avoid all weightbearing for at least a week, the Fib is fully supporting in a static pose with no discomfort from the damaged bone.

The avoidance of analgesics is primarily to allow me to monitor and restrict any excess I may be dumb enough to inflict on myself.

The Doc advises that he thinks that it will be 8 weeks for full repair if I were in a cast, I would like to half that with care and careful rehab/exercise. He does think that I'm very odd in taking this approach but has not specifically advised against it but has asked that I stay locally and check in weekly or if there is any change to the wound area, the pain or if I develop a fever/infection of any sort.

memo for record: Scotch; no matter how singular or rare is not a substitute for Morphine snowHead

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Masque, many advances in medicine have been made by people going against orthodox wisdom.
You may be successful in your experiment.
But as Jonathan Bell suggests: you may end up with one of the nastier complications: especially non-union.

It does rather depend on what you mean by "broken tibia"
There are many different ways to break your tibia, ranging from the trivial that don't really need much intervention to the severe that without active intervention can result in disaster.
http://orthopedics.about.com/od/brokenbones/a/tibia.htm

Breaks (fractures) of the tibial shaft can be especially tricky, with a particular risk of non-union
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1252306-overview#a0102

So, not using modern medication or pain killers is fine: you will just be miserable.
Failure to immobilise for some types of break is foolish
BUT, whatever you do, if you smoke cigarettes: STOP NOW.

EDIT: crossed post.
My post has ended up rather out-of-date as missed Masque's above post
Best of luck. Little Angel

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Jonpim, Cheers, not smoked for near 30 years. I'm very aware of the potential complications and as you can see I have precautions in place.

snow reports

Day 1: Iced the injury 3 times in the night and maintained light to moderate compression with immobilization. Pain level at times in the night was enough to wake me but then slept well from 03:00-08:30. Woke to no discomfort at all other than moderate tenderness and a small swelling at the injury site. I can stand with full weight on that leg without any tenderness.

To be honest, if I had not had an X-ray and diagnosis I would probably have attempted to ski today . . . an nice fresh 4" fell in the night. Sad

Heading into the gym to the recumbent bike and a very gentle swim to see what it feels like.

You know it makes sense.

Masque, given Jonathan Bell's comments above, I would not be taking any risks that I didn't need to take, myself.

On a somewhat unrelated injury topic, I was told 25 years ago that I could spend 6 (weeks? months?) in bed and my spine was unlikely to develop arthritis or 10 days in bed and it might easily develop arthritis.

As a fun loving party animal 21 year old, what seemed best? ... and who wakes up with chronic (if mild) back pain many days now?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Hells Bells, +2.. and to what end?

A snowHead

+3. Don't take the risk, Masque, though we'd still love you just as much, even with a varus malunion - though a rotational malunion as well might be pushing your luck.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Masque, sometimes I think you are completely bonkers rolling eyes

.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Masque, go for it my son wink

You'll need to Register first of course.

Rest , immobilise, only weight bear when your doc says it is OK to do so. And FFS,at least take some pain relief at bedtime. Sleep is essential for healing. Do you want to be able to ski in 2015? A malunion might make that an impossible dream.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think you are absolutely aff yer heid! I am following my doctors/physio orders, so i can hopefully heal quicker and better and maybe ski in 2015. I had my accident on 9 January and I've been told only to weight bear on my toes only. All of this is driving me mad too because I'm an active person - lying about watching Netflix whilst doing physio exercises and having to rely on friends/family to get shopping, not to mention the fact that I can't get into the shower is driving me mad - but sometimes you've just got to lap it up.

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Masque, so how is it today? hope you didn't catch your leg in the sheets...or are you sleeping in the boot?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Masque, For me, one of the most important parts of the skeleton for good skiing is the how the tib and fib align with the bones of the foot, I wouldn't want to risk altering this.

snow reports

First let me thank the professionals here for their comments, particularly Mr Bell, who I know from a family friend, is held in in huge respect in the health industry (sorry, a bit of a dig at some of the fiscal source issues I'm sure he has to deal with or frustrate him on a regular basis wink

) I also deeply appreciate and welcome his participation here

Next, let's put some ownership on this. This is me, it's my body, I'm intimately familiar with it, it's been through some (some would say too many) rough patches and no doubt will have a few more before it's time to return its components to the universe. It's not a temple it's a ruin and with certainty a lot of fedora wearing, whip wielding phages crawling around my more hidden passages looking for their own 'Temple of Doom'. ALL decisions here are mine and in NO way are to be held or used as an example to anyone else. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED and not just by me!

Here's the 'rub'. One of the problems I have experienced is that some doctors are all too frequently not human . . . no, they're not cyborgs, though you could be forgiven for occasionally thinking so . . . it's not their fault, they have to live and work in a much more bizarre World than we do. Their decision processes are channeled, constrained and perhaps corrupted by the information, legislative and liability overload they are subsumed by.

Two simple personal examples: The doctor who refused to refer me for surgery to repair a right shoulder class3 AC separation that included a complete Rotator Cuff tear, on the grounds that it would be a "cosmetic procedure for women only". This has a legacy of permanent pain, weakness, progressive joint destruction . . . and you have no idea of how much a 24/7 pain can be and how hard I have to crunch past the fookin' mess of broken cartilage to keep some semblance of normal flexible movement and how I (or anyone else) has to come off NSAIDs in order not to destroy their digestive system. . . .

Then there's the 'Houseman' Who told me that there was only "one" repair to a severed Achilles and that I would not be able to ski in the future and that I was "too old" to be doing that sort of things. It was only when I asked the 'Consultant' on the morning of the op "Why do you have such a lying c**t on your staff?", did I get a real discussion on the merits, goals and prognosis of the repair to my now and still after this current debacle, right Achilles tendon . . . though it did mean a two day delay on the op to get an ugly scar but a robust and 100% functioning repair. My memory is fading, but at the time I recall it was an open access, Warszawa 6 suture repair. Certainly not pretty but offset to avoid rubbing in a ski boot.

You guys can work out the 'irony' in the statements of the two primary care physicians . . . rolling eyes

Back to DAY 1: None of what I'm doing is with an unsupported fracture. this first week is just with a minimal to zero perceived loading with the goal of maintaining a good blood and lymph flow through and around the damaged area. The avoidance of pain relief just lets me know and feel when I stress the injury and by how much.

The recumbent bike, set to load 1 (it won't accept 'zero') was fine, just a 30 min light aerobic workout with minimal discomfort around the whole lower leg (2-3 on the pain scale), no specific or localised pain. Had a shower in preparation for crutching to the pool but found that I very quickly developed an edema around my ankle (photos and x-rays to follow). So I went back to the airboot with periodic compression relief and icing. A short trip around Safeway for supper using the side of the cart as my left crutch was an experience more in twatish behavior than outright pain but the second time I landed on my back because an arrogant bаѕtard shoved my cart out of his path was enough!

Night 2: I have to say is 'uncomfortable', averaging between 5 and 8 . . . the most obvious being the skin nerve fire from the compression boot. I'm working to achieve a balance between support and comfort though I'm not sure here is one so just regular cycling of compression and rest. There are second and third forms of pain and because of past trauma, both are distinct and observable. 1: the point source low ache of bone regeneration at the fracture site. This is the one that flashes to fire when I do something stupid . . . and 2: the throb of soft tissues sorting themselves out in rhythm to my heart. In those moments when I release the boot and gently move my foot I can feel the soft clunk as small joints in my foot and ankle, released by stretched ligaments and tendons through trauma or swelling miss their proscribed path only to pop back to home. Not painful, just uncomfortable and if not familiar would be disturbing.

I'll be heading back to the gym this afternoon to push a little more and please note that I have ready access to the med centre and the same doctor who admitted me (I'll try to get him to join and post his thoughts)

Of course . . . I could just be laying here in my bunk drinking cheap Bourbon and eating expensive chocolate wink

Masque, well, good luck to ya. could the oedema be related to the bike work?

Ouch for the shopping cart - 2 crutches and a bag round your neck next time!!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

You know, Masque, there are other, less painful ways to avoid skiing with me! Good Lord, man! rolling eyes

A snowHead

Masque, you are an adult (apparently). We are all going to die regardless. Make your choices. Stick with them if they are informed choices.(I have no doubt that they are in your case) You should really factor in advice from Jonathan Bell though. I know a lot about dog bones, cat bones, cow bones and horse bones and little about human bones, but have arrived the conclusion that JB knows a shed load more than most people ever will

A snowHead

Thornyhill, I'm also a pillock rolling eyes

it's my fibula (the little one) I've had them reversed in my head for this whole time and it stuck that way round. Had a checkup today and all is going very well and been released to start adding light pressure and occasional weight bearing. Pain is down to pretty much nothing even at night.

SORRY ALL for being a dumbass mea culpa Embarassed

That'll probably make the warnings from our dear JB a little less stentorian wink

sorry boss. Fighting the propitiatory software to get the x-ray images, I'll do a screen grab.

If it keeps going this well I may have a gentle slide on the last day or two before I head to KC for the other business

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

HutToHut, Oh dear God, I'm getting worse rolling eyes

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Masque, just take a picture of the xray or computer screen with your phone and upload the image

You'll need to Register first of course.

peanuthead, yeah that's what I did.

Masque, you absolute muppet !!!! When eeyore broke her fib at the EoSB she didn't use any painkillers and she didn't even have the boot - no immobilisation at all! just told to keep the weight off it. when she got back to the UK the fracture clinic took a different view so there was some immobilisation for a couple of weeks, but she was dancing on crutches at Fenlandskier's wedding a few weeks later (but you know she is hard as nails). Your experiment seems a bit girly now wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Masque, so when do you depart Copper? Time to slide a bit with the old man?

After all it is free

holidayloverxx, Laughing

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

The daft thing is I've been sure all along that Masque, had been referring to the smaller of the two bones and I hadn't even give a second thought to which of the two he had named or which way round they were named. I just assumed it was the smaller one, i.e. that it was almost being self splinted by the other way hence he could get away with what he was describing, only 'cos there was very little chance of him doing it with the larger of the two being crocked. Toofy Grin

Help!!

an experiment.

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Ski Fitness, Exercise, Injury and Rehab