 Poster: A snowHead
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Just bee to the ski cub site for the first time in ages to see what's changing and saw this poll on the front page
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If train fares dropped in line with plane fares would you prefer to take the train?
Yes - no luggage constraints
Yes - more convenient
Yes - more environmentally friendly
Yes - takes you straight to resort
No - it takes too long
No - the plane every time
No - too uncomfortable
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It just really annoys me, the train is only an option if you live close to London (or perhaps en-route to the chunnel, don;t know if the ski trains stop en route?)
For me, it shows the parochial bent of the ski club - anyone who's worth talking to *must* live in the home counties.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They can do Polls now ? Is that an improvement of their forum ? Have they seen the snowHeads light ?
On Topic - the snow train starts at Waterloo and picks up also at Ashford. Not a lot of use if you live in Darkest Devon, I agree.
And that 4th question - takes you straight to resort. Not to many resorts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting point. Will the change of Channel Tunnel rail link into London St Pancras (commencing 2006, I believe) make a material difference to anyone in the midlands / north?
Or would direct trains from northern stations (presumably the rail people will finally start thinking of running them when the CTRL is complete) be necessary?
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Lets think - it takes 3 to 4 hours to get to London. Add on another 10 hours (i'm guessing here) for london to Bourg St Maurice, say. that's 14 hours or so. I may be wildly wrong on the 10 hours though.
you can fly from manchester to Geneva in about 90 mninutes, then get a transfer to BsM in about 2 hours. Call ti 4 hour tops.
Which would you choose if both were the same price?
And also, that's only to the French Alps. If you;re skiing in the pyrenees, switzerland, italy....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've wondered this too. It will make a material difference to me reducing my journey time from home to the station by almost 15minutes from the current 30 
Seriously though: from Central London there's not much in it time-wise between flying and taking the train to the Savoie - if anything, allowing for check-ins and transfers, I think the train comes out a little quicker and it's definately the more comfortable option.
How long does it take to get to London from Manchester by Train? How fast would it have to be?
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| u brain wrote: |
| How long does it take to get to London from Manchester by Train? How fast would it have to be? |
According to the timetables, 2.5 to 3 hours depending on the train.
in reality. 3 to 5 hours depending on various outside factors
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Isn't the main advantage of the Friday evening snowtrain that it gives you 2 extra days skiing. Nothing to do with speed or even comfort (not that I've actually done it but friends have). London's lack of integration of the rail termini is a nonsense in this day and age. You can get across N-S from Luton to Brighton (incl Gatwick) via Thameslink (or whatever they call it nowadays) without changing but trying to get from any other mainline terminals to Waterloo with bags and skis is not an attractive option. Crossrail has just been given the go ahead but knowing the way these sort of projects go in UK it will be years late and grossly overbudget.
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Aha,time for a table!
| Camden-Waterloo | 30mins
| | Check-in | 30 mins
| | Waterloo-BSM | 7hrs (with Bar so it seems much less)
| | Xfer - Tignes | 50 mins
| | total: | 8hrs50
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| | Camden - LGW | 1:15
| | Check-in | 2hrs
| | LGW - Geneva | 1:30
| | Bagage Claim | 1hr (and U know it can be more)
| | Xfer - Tignes | 3hrs
| | total: | 8hrs45 |
Ian, kings X is far better connected to the national infrastructure - Waterloo was always meant to be a 'stopgap solution'.
The Friday night service which stops in Paris is my favourite - technicaly it takes longer door to door but it seems so much shorter. U get to Paris just as u start to get bored on the E*, wander round a while looking for a nice place to have dinner then sleep your way down to the mountains - Perfect!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| u brain wrote: |
Aha,time for a table! Nice one U !!!!
Ian, kings X is far better connected to the national infrastructure - Waterloo was always meant to be a 'stopgap solution'.
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One word of warning about Kings X - the stop on the N-S through Thameslink service of the same name is NOT the mainline terminus. It's a couple of hundred yards walk away. Naughty.
Mods - we're getting a bit off topic on this thread. If it continues, part might be better off in Trips ?
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That station is being relocated, I believe, as part of the whole Kings Cross reconstruction, so I guess the interchange will improve.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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u brain, Camden to Waterloo 30 mins? Are you walking?
kuwait_ian, it's easier than you think. If you walk towards the tube from the Thameslink platforms, you very quickly pass the Victoria line, carry on through this tunnel (follow signs to the Piccadilly line, I think) and you soon end up in the underground part of the main station (technically you're alwyas in it, the Victoria line platforms are the furthest end from the main line bit). So although you're technically walking the same distance you're not having to worry about roads, etc.
Kings Cross underground station did in fact move to its present location. I think it was built nearer to the Thameslink end, originally. The Thameslink and mainline stations were originally built by and for different companies.
It's worth remembering that the layout of the underground stations often means that you have further to walk when getting the tube than you think, so you often have to walk a similar distance just to get the tube when getting off at a terminal.
Also, if you're coming in on WAGN, unless you can't use stairs, change onto the Piccadilly or Victoria lines at Finsbury Park. It's much easier, and if you're aiming to pick up the Thameslink, you can pick up the Victoria line and get off at Kings Cross and you're literally a few metres from the Thameslink platform (don't follow signs to the mainline platform though).
Hmmm, sorry went on more than I intended then.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| Isn't the main advantage of the Friday evening snowtrain that it gives you 2 extra days skiing. |
That's the general idea...but if you live "up North" you end up having to take Friday off work, so you may as well book a flight on Fri and have an extra night in a comfy bed.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| That's the general idea...but if you live "up North" you end up having to take Friday off work, so you may as well book a flight on Fri and have an extra night in a comfy bed. |
Great in theory, though I've never been able to find accommodation that'll take a booking for 9 nights. Anyone know differently?
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You know it makes sense.
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Well I've already got a booking for a couple for next Feb "B & B'ing" with us in Bourg St Maurice for a night at either end of their holiday....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Maybe you've found your niche PG 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dave Burt, stay near the airport, and get an early transfer the next morning.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dave Burt, apart from Elizabeth B's very good suggestion, you can also often find somewhere mid-way between the two (or even at the resort if you're brave enough to wait until late notice) that'll take a one night booking at each end of the holiday. Staying halfway breaks the transfer up (esp. if it's 3-5 hour one).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| u brain wrote: |
| I think the train comes out a little quicker and it's definately the more comfortable option. |
U must have a better padded bum than mine  Unless the seats in Eurostar have improved enormously in the last 4 years or so. Ifound Ashford to BSM a real bum-numbing experience. Travelling steerage, of course.
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Dave Burt, yeah found it in the resort. Normally have to book the extra nights nearer the date but you'll easily find accomodation..........well depending on the size of your group.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nick Zotov, Exactly- i used to travel Paris- Waterloo and that was bad enough- trying to sleep on that thing is a joke! especially if its busy! - It was agony! Id rather get an early morning flight on the saturday and get there in time for an afternoon of skiing rather than be hunched up like a battery hen for 9hrs on a train just to get an extra morning of skiing in!
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Ah but Nadenoodlee, I don't know anyone who's ever lost a bag travelling that route 
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admin, i dont know anyone who's got off the train looking "refreshed and relaxed"
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Nadenoodlee, that's called a hangover Seen anyone get out of arrivals looking refreshed and relaxed? I have, but only at City.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| nbt wrote: |
| For me, it shows the parochial bent of the ski club - anyone who's worth talking to *must* live in the home counties. |
I was just looking on the SCGB site, and started thinking about the poll - I actually think that it's showing more openness than your response! It's not assuming that its members all drive Grand Tourers, or fly first class, and that people these days consider other options compared with going to the airport, and aren't so posh as to complain about sharing a train carriage with others.
Come on, give them a break once in a while!
I considered going away for a weekend break a couple of years back with a school teacher friend who lived in Dulwich. There was no way we would fly - too much hassle for a weekend. We considered the train, and the only thing that put me off was the work on the west coast main line meant that there was bus replacements going on everywhere, and this would have involved me carting my luggage around a lot, and guessing at timetables, or paying stupid taxi fairs. In the end, this was what put me off the idea.
Hopefully when the tracks get sorted around here, I will be able to hop on a train, and go skiing. But it would be good if they reduced their prices a bit.
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Nadenoodlee, let me offer you the 'no nonsense' explaination. (Perhaps the details are getting in the way)
What would u rather do?
a)Spend 7hrs wishing u were partying.
b)Spend 9hrs partying.
Ok, so u get the odd complementary drink on a plane...
on a train they let u bring your own!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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More importantly and being someone who has taken the train in the past all the way to Switzerland, the train travels at night, that means you get to the resort early on your first day and often leave late on the last day, in my case this used to mean arriving at 9.15am and leaving at 7.33 pm from the resort.
Ok the trains need updating to make them more comfortable, they could learn a lot from whoever built the new double deck Swiss trains which are both comfortable and quiet, if they could do this why not travel by train, by doing so you gain on average a minimum of 1 extra days skiing for no further accomodation cost, and possibly 2 extra days, plus no baggage restrictions, no chance of lost or stolen baggage, very unlikely to be delayed due to bad weather, no problems bringing your own booze and you may even find a party wagon on the end of the train.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nbt, what's the problem? You norvan gits get to choose from the following:
No - it takes too long
No - the plane every time
No - too uncomfortable
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I;d go for the train for all the reason discussed above, If I knew that we had decent speed railways in this country and could reach dover in four hours - perfectly feasible given the speed of French railways.
under the current system however......
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You know it makes sense.
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nbt, so did you tick:
No - it takes too long
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Must be said - no I didn;t. I owuld have tickerd it had I still lived in London as then it;s a fair compariosn. Living oop north, the train isna;t even an option
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Poster: A snowHead
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nbt, why is it not an option? Is it not because it takes too long, or is it easier to blame the Ski Club for the speed and quality of the UK railways than it is to accept that maybe they were trying to be less Upper Class.?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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nbt, why was ticking 'No - it takes too long' not an option? It seems to fit your situation perfectly.
I await your reply with great interest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thinking about it, it is the right option to tick. I stand correctd
I still stand by my point that the quiz was written by a londoner for people who live in London.
"the train" to me means "the snow train", not "the bus from stockport to wilmslow becasue the west coast main line is shut, then the train as far as somewhere down south and then another bus to Milton Keynes because that section is shut too, then the train to Euston, then the tube across london to the snowtrain...."
and, breathe....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| nbt wrote: |
| I still stand by my point that the quiz was written by a londoner for people who live in London. |
Do you know something we don't?
1. It's not a quiz, it's a survey
2. You'll get to Milton Keynes fine, then have to take a bus from there if you're travelling weekends - I should know. BTW, have you used the train services much?
3. Even with the current railway line works, you're only about 3hr 50mins from Waterloo. How does that compare with time to your nearest international airport, time to get parked, and 2 hours check in?
You see, the train is more of an option for those who don't live near a major international airport. Now, that kinda rules out everyone around London.
Can I ask, are you the Anti-Nick Zotov? From your responses so far, if SCGB asked "Which is better, Birmingham or Manchester Airport?" you'd see that as further proof that SCGB hates you!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's a little unfair to blame the SCGB for the fact that we have a rail system that is at least 30 years out of date, if we had the sort of trains you can find in France (TGV), Belgium (Thalays) or Germany (ICE), and the efficiency of the Swiss to run the system then we would not complain so much, the irony is that those countries all had large ammounts of assistance from British engineers when they developed their rail systems, unfortunately succesive British governments have under funded the rail system to give the result we see now 
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| ... the efficiency of the Swiss to run the system |
I love the Swiss rail system, too. It's a delight to use. I wonder if it really is efficient, though, or has a less pressurised network than ours, and a higher staff to passenger ratio. Don't know the answer. Just musing.
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I wonder if there is any way to compare them? This article makes interesting reading, and the following "The capital of Switzerland is Bern, which has a population (2003 estimate) of 122,500. Zürich (340,900) is a financial center and Switzerland’s largest city. Basel (164,900) is a commercial center noted for textile and clothing manufacturing. Geneva (176,000) is a cultural, financial, and manufacturing center that is also home to the headquarters of several hundred international organizations, including the Red Cross and the World Health Organization. Lausanne (115,600) is a transportation center".
The total population is about 7.5 million. How many sweat their way into London by train every day I wonder?
Meanwhile, over here I live about 100 m from my local commuter line station. For the past 20 years or more there has been a train every half hour from 7am to 7pm. and the service has been called "Valley Lines".
Recently, the trains had stickers proclaiming "Arriva" stuck over the old logos. Now the first train in the morning is at 7am but the next one is at 8.36 !!
"NON Arriva" would seem more appropriate. Meanwhile the city council are hell bent on making it impossible to drive anywhere so exactly how are people with jobs in town supposed to get to them? This country is very rapidly losing what little plot it had left as far as I can see.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| Can I ask, are you the Anti-Nick Zotov? |
Just been thinking about that expression.
"the"Anti-Nick Zotov
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| nbt wrote: |
| I still stand by my point that the quiz was written by a londoner for people who live in London. |
Stand by it if you want, just don't lean to heavily against it! The poll did provide options for people like you who don't live in London. Therefore you point is disproved.
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Fair point, Gerry. as has been discussed in detail elsewhere (and re-hashed on the Kevin McClean thread in The Piste) on the I am still to be convinced of the role the ski club plays in the life of members from "the privinces"
WTFH, I used to live in South London, work round Victoria, and come up to Mancehster every weekend to see Mrs NBT. For years prior to that I lived in Wigan and worked in Crewe (for British Rail as it happens) and commuted by intercity trains. I'm well aware of the state of the railways,and while you;re right we can;t blame SCGB for that, I still wouldn;t rely on the railways for anything as important as my skiing. And the lines are closed through stockport all the time at the moment, not just at weekends.
And as it happens, I live about 15 minutes drive from Mancehster airport, so your last point is kind of apt!
however, I don;t see that "not living near a major international airport" equates to the snow train being a valid choice. THere are lots of flight from places like Bristol, southampton, east midlands etc just in england : surely that majority of the population would find it more convenient to go to such an aiport rather than London to get the train?
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FAQ
