I've taken the liberty of nuggetting James Timothy's words in quotes. It's not a direct quote from his article, which seems to be a well-informed and balanced one ...
There is little, if any, statistical evidence to support the wearing of helmets.
In 2012, a large study carried out in North America showed that serious head injury and death rates had gone up during the previous 10 years, even though in the same period helmet use had gone up some 171%.
Quote:
Personally I wear a helmet on days when I plan to do things I consider on balance would be safer when wearing one. On other days I do not.
The "large study" referred to is believed to have been carried out by the US ski trade organisation that represents resorts: the National Ski Areas Association (NSAA). I've not been able to trace the study to source material, which is also quoted here ...
http://www.skisafety-blog.com/ski-safety/skier-dies-after-tree-collision-aspen/
Another balanced and informed article on this subject was the one in the New York Times a fortnight ago, by Kelley McMillan ...
Totally missing the point. Surely the only reason anyone wears a helmet is to have somewhere to park your goggles while you look at a piste map, without them steaming up.
Though, of course there is a bit of a safety issue with goggles as they reduce peripheral vision.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quite a well reasoned piece on planet ski which has been selectively quoted from.
Well done tangledupinblue, you really have added a new insight into the debate. Your philosophical argument and well balanced and informed opinion of the facts has left me breathless and totally convinced that your view is the one to adopt.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
CS, you are boring. Either wear helmet or don't, but your seeming crusade to convince others not to is boring at best, but more likely just asinine.
After all it is free
After all it is free
MikeM wrote:
Well done tangledupinblue, you really have added a new insight into the debate. Your philosophical argument and well balanced and informed opinion of the facts has left me breathless and totally convinced that your view is the one to adopt.
+1
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boredsurfin wrote:
Quite a well reasoned piece on planet ski which has been selectively quoted from.
... to cater for time-poor snowHeads, Reader's Digest subscribers, those with low boredom thresholds and Twitter users
Similar debate in cycling, but interesting about paper.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Useful links - thanks. As another engineer/ physicist, I'm already aware of the source material, and the implications.
It's interesting to see:
that there are some people brave enough to worry about evidence and physics;
that others believe that their helmets do things they do not.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Sorry guys, appalling language. Happy New year CG.
It just seems that every argument for and against helmet wearing has been done to death. There will be more reports and statistical studies of which one side or the other will take as verification of their opinion and the other side will dispute. but is regurgitation of the same old stuff.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
the article also says this...
The increase in helmet use has had positive results. Experts say helmets have reduced the numbers of less serious head injuries, like scalp lacerations, by 30 percent to 50 percent, and Schumacher’s doctors say he would not have survived his fall had he not worn a helmet. But growing evidence indicates that helmets do not prevent some more serious injuries, like the tearing of delicate brain tissue
and...
“There’s a push toward faster, higher, pushing the limits being the norm, not the exception,” said Nina Winans, a sports medicine physician. “So, all of those factors — terrain parks, jumping cliffs and opening terrain that maybe wasn’t open in the past — play into some of these statistics with injuries.”
I am pretty sure we all must realise that helmets can save lives but that they are not going to perform miracles.
Temperatures have risen, and I wonder how many other helmet users have opted for aircon.
So ... another one for the scientists ... do serious head injuries increase in spring (or spring temps) ... using strict statistical correlation with use of beanies and bobble hats ... or heads naked to the breeze?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 12-01-14 11:50; edited 4 times in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jules444 wrote:
I am pretty sure we all must realise that helmets can save lives but that they are not going to perform miracles.
Pretty much sums up my view. Ditto for airbags, seat belts, etc, etc
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I am pretty sure we all must realise that helmets can save lives but that they are not going to perform miracles.
I completely agree jules444,
It all comes down to personal choice.
I certainly would never consider letting my daughter ski without a helmet - although it won't perform miracles I think it offers her more protection than not having one. I am at peace with my decision that she wears a helmet. I assume the anti-helmet brigade think I am a dreadful mother for making my daughter wear one and I am at peace with that as well.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Very well put jules444 - completely agree.
Important that these helmet debates are both reasoned and balanced. Sometimes these debates remind me of politicians talking (i.e. people detailing all the stats that support their case, but ignoring all the ones that don't). Things are rarely that black & white in life.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Having lacerated my scalp in otherwise innocuous fall, albeit at some speed I would prefer not to repeat the experience, not least the laundry bill.
I am pretty sure we all must realise that helmets can save lives but that they are not going to perform miracles.
I completely agree jules444,
It all comes down to personal choice.
I certainly would never consider letting my daughter ski without a helmet - although it won't perform miracles I think it offers her more protection than not having one. I am at peace with my decision that she wears a helmet. I assume the anti-helmet brigade think I am a dreadful mother for making my daughter wear one and I am at peace with that as well.
On the other side, while it IS a matter of personal choice, what are the reasons (other than just choice) to say you're safer without a helmet?
Too hot? find one with better vents
Not comfortable? You've tried every helmet on the market??
Affects hearing and awareness? Remove the ear-pads, not that ear pads do any more muffling than a beanie.
Affects field of vision? Again, try different makes/models. And they certainly don't obscure more of your vision than goggles
I'm not trying to start an argument, I genuinely would like to know what the reasons would be for not wearing a helmet other than just "I don't want to"
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sweet Jesus this has been done to deathComedy Goldsmith, just move on with your life with or without a helmet....PLEASE!!!!!
After all it is free
After all it is free
tangledupinblue wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, F*** Off
+1
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
^^ Nehh.. it's good banter. Just don't read the **fkn** thread if you don't like it.
The point that I see is that if the figures are mangled or misleading insurers may insist on helmet wearing.
I wore one (of two) for nearly all of one season (4yrs ago I think) and not after - except if there's a lot of tree skiing involved. They do prevent stitches, no doubt about that.
I find skiing much more pleasurable without a helmet so would like to retain the option of wearing one or not.
Without doubt, I felt more secure wearing a helmet, not sure I did anything I wouldn't have done not wearing one, but certainly made some rash decisions because of it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I haven't personally experienced any downside at all to wearing a helmet, so really don't understand the debate. For me a helmet is worth it for the warmth and better goggle positioning alone. Some non-helmet wearers seem to have an obsession about justifying their position, which is really not necessary. If you don't want to wear a helmet then don't, but don't waste your time trying to convince helmet wearers that they are a waste of time or dangerous or whatever. It just makes you look insecure.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I performed a scientific experiment re: helmets with my brother as we argued as to the use of wearing a helmet whilst skiing.
I hit him on the top of his bonce whilst he had no helmet on. He said it hurt and swung for me.
I then gave him a helmet and performed the same test. He said it didn't hurt.
So, I can 100% determine that wearing a helmet will help prevent bumps to the head hurting as much as if you were not wearing a helmet.
On a slightly more serious note, I took a fairly big tumble last season after turning a corner to find a group of people sat having lunch/a chat just below the crest of a drop in. I took evasive action and caught my left ski on the lip at the edge of the piste which spun me around and sent me sliding backwards down the piste. I banged my head as I fell backwards and then I slid for probably 40metres, my head scraping the piste the whole way down.
I got up and was able to brush myself down without much of an issue. Without a helmet, I would have at least got some burns to my noggin. I for one wouldn't ski without a helmet. Other than getting a slightly sweaty head, I don't feel it causes me any issues. Much like wearing a helmet on my bike.
Studies can say what they want about the efficacy of wearing a helmet, but I don't want to use my head as a statistic to determine whether I was right to not wear a helmet. At least if I've worn a helmet and still seriously injured myself, I've done everything I can to try and minimize the risk to myself.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
allanm wrote:
...Just don't read the **fkn** thread if you don't like it....
+1
Seriously, I don't know what's wrong with some people.
Telling another snowhead (even dutch trolls) to "F*** off" ... "get a life" for starting a thread
Just move along...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I took a fairly big tumble last season after turning a corner to find a group of people sat having lunch/a chat just below the crest of a drop in. I took evasive action and caught my left ski on the lip at the edge of the piste which spun me around and sent me sliding backwards down the piste. I banged my head as I fell backwards and then I slid for probably 40metres, my head scraping the piste the whole way down.
I got up and was able to brush myself down without much of an issue. Without a helmet, I would have at least got some burns to my noggin.
That's quite a good argument for wearing a helmet but an even better argument for not blasting at high speed when you can't see what's ahead.
I wear a helmet because I find it much less itchy than a hat, because it plays me music and because I think it might play a useful role in some situations in helping to avoid an injury or reduce the severity. With a silk balaclava underneath it's cosy in cold weather and even today, when it was boiling hot, and I was skiing very slowly with a near beginner, it didn't make my head too hot. And you can park your goggles on it, like the man said.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ALQ, people who can't express themselves or argue a point without using smilies are just uneducated thickos
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Bode Swiller wrote:
ALQ, people who can't express themselves or argue a point without using smilies are just uneducated thickos
Your sentence is hurting my brain
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I couldn't agree more strongly with Swiller
and his approach to helmets.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Personally, I quite enjoy (and learn from) both sets of proponents of for/against.
Find it fun listening to everyone who says they are fed up of helmet debates, opening up the thread and commenting
An intesting viewpoint : perhaps it shouldn't be ourselves who choose whether we wear a helmet or not, but instead we ought to ask our partners or our children who will be looking after us for the rest of our lives following a serious head injury
Comedy Goldsmith's are much better after pressing the "Ignore" option. Saves looking at them at all and justifies supporting the forum by an ocassional financial contribution
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
An Aspen skier, Jonathan Stuart, died yesterday from hitting a tree. Ski Patrol believe that his head, which was helmeted, took the impact.
^^ It's OK bringing up one exception - there will always be.. but what about all these hundreds who would have been killed yesterday had they not being wearing a helmet. They aren't news - are they?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
Some non-helmet wearers seem to have an obsession about justifying their position, which is really not necessary. If you don't want to wear a helmet then don't, but don't waste your time trying to convince helmet wearers that they are a waste of time or dangerous or whatever. It just makes you look insecure.
Agreed.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
krakatoa,
Quote:
An Aspen skier, Jonathan Stuart, died yesterday from hitting a tree. Ski Patrol believe that his head, which was helmeted, took the impact.
Maybe Comedy Goldsmith, could explain how, if he hadn't had a helmet on, it would have prevented this?
Maybe something to do with the time spent putting his helmet on could have changed the snow conditions, or maybe he didn't see the tree.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
I would prefer not to repeat the experience, not least the laundry bill.
