Anyone worked towards, or actually taken, a CEFR test for a foreign language while in the UK?
Background: I can hack my way by in French (or quote from a phrasebook in German ) and would like to get my standard to something more solid. I find it difficult while not in the country to improve, but then abroad am disappointed when conversation with a French speaker defaults to English. I'm sure living there would be the best way forward but, failing that, I read French ski mags and get to converse now and again with French colleagues at work. Now wondering if working towards a CEFR test (likely B1) would be a good way forward.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have same dilemma with Italian. But an academic course with lots of stuff about the subjunctive and complex tenses wouldn't help me much in conversation. Reading in the language helps with vocabulary and listening to audio books is a great way of developing listening skills - one of the most important skills for every day living. There ,are loads of resources on the internet. Babbel.com is good up to B1.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi pam w, I've had a quick look at babblel.com, not tried the course yet. I did some online work last year, might have been on about.com, but I understand babbel is also good for testing your spoken language? Like yourself I'm more interested in learning to converse than finer points of grammar!
balernoStu, I found just watching French TV and listening to the radio improved my French a lot.
Maybe stream the radio from one of the local stations so you get to hear stuff in a Savoyarde accent.
I have a dish at home so that I can watch Eurosport, there are lots of German and a few French channels that are free on the same satellite.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
balernoStu, I'm not sure what the CEFR courses are, however, I did the French Institut DELF B2 exam a couple of years ago and am currently studying for the German Goethe B1 exam for similar reasons. I guess it depends on your personality - I find without a goal, life gets in the way and I don't make as much progress. Studying for the exams motivates me. With both languages I've studied in conjunction with a tutor in order to get conversation practice. With the French B2, I didn't really do much grammar at all, as I already knew enough to communicate and the emphasis was on improving written and verbal communication. However, with the German B1 I'm having to spend a lot more time on it - I think think this just reflects 'where I am at' with the language - it's difficult to communicate fluently if you can't construct sentences properly.
Gämsbock, I believe DELF is a French implementation of the language independent CEFR framework, so levels are equivalent.
I don't need to attend a formal test to be motivated but have found online tests good for establishing how well I actually know certain areas. Of course certification may be handy for the CV, skiing work or other.
rjs, you're doing a lot better than I am if you can follow French media. I try but quickly get left behind! Saying that, I don't have the French channels at home, so only try while abroad.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
CEFR just means Common European Framework of Reference for Foreign Languages. It means that if you are graded at A2 in a language test, that the level is recognised as a level of proficiency worldwide. Prior to its adoption there was no common core of development or expectation of proficiency. You can read a wee bit of background about it in Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages).
To be able to really interact with locals you should be aiming at getting to B2 in the spoken part to be honest. Anything less then the chances are that they will probably try out their English on you or politely move on to a more interesting conversation.
For French it is hard to beat Alliance Française courses to really get you up to speed and for German, the bar is set very high by the Goethe-Institut. Courses with accreditation by either of those institutes mean that the materials and the teachers are appropriate to the needs of the student's level. The teachers will also of course, all be native speakers as well.
I teach English to Germans from A1 through to C2 and when they leave me they get a grading according to their spoken fluency and written fluency - usually the latter is lower than the spoken form. My German is graded at C2 spoke and B2/C1 written. My French is now the other way round with my written better than my spoken as I do not get much chance to speak it on a regular basis - takes me about 3 days to get back up to speed. Languages really are a case of use it or lose it!
After all it is free
After all it is free
I'm doing language courses in Germany but still have the same problem that speaking with all my friends just defaults to English. I've ended up just repeating some of the A2 courses as like a lot of people above I find past that it concentrates a lot more on grammar and I would really like to improve my conversation skills. I also find I get a lot more out of the classes being a bit above the assessed level. Once this set of classes is finished I'm just going to go to an English-German conversation night, I actually checked and there is one of these in Edinburgh so might be worth checking locally if it's French you want to learn. Outside classes I like the Michel Thomas CDs which I listen to sometimes when I'm cycling to work and have just started using the Duolingo website which I really like.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Samerberg Sue wrote:
. Languages really are a case of use it or lose it!
That's the real issue, when not immersed in the country.
lynseyf, yes a CD could be handy for the car, especially en-route to the 'dome. Wonder if my boys would put up with it though!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
balernoStu, when I was based in the UK I used to listen to French and German radio/TV, read the papers online and borrowed French and German films. The internet resources are way better now so you can immerse yourself as well if you make the effort, it just is not interactive, but it does help you keep your ear in. I still have French TV and radio in the background to make sure I don't lose all my French skills. Reading L'Équipe, Libération or Le Monde as well as watching French films all help fill the gap as well.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I don't know if they still do, but the Institut Francais (in Kensington) used to use ordinary TV programmes for comprehension exercises.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Audio books in the car are great if you drive alone but not appreciated by passengers, i find.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
There are some podcasts, e.g. News in Slow French, that are aimed at people who like balernoStu (and me) struggle to get their ear in when listening to native french programming. For TV I find just watching with the subtitles on (subtitles and audio in French) means I can understand enough to enjoy the programme.
I also remember there was a french TV show, with a premise a bit like Friends, that was meant to be used as a language-learning tool rather than pure entertainment (and it shows!). I think the episodes are on you tube, but I can't remember the name of it right now.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If going for CDs like the Michel Thomas ones, or Pimsleur etc. then try your local library. They are expensive to buy but here at least practically free to borrow. They tend to be aimed at beginners and early intermediates though, so you might already have got past that (I'm not really sure what these various levels mean).
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:
Audio books in the car are great if you drive alone but not appreciated by passengers, i find.
I cycle everywhere. I figure the people I cycle past think I'm having a very boring conversion on my phone.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
lynseyf wrote:
pam w wrote:
Audio books in the car are great if you drive alone but not appreciated by passengers, i find.
I cycle everywhere. I figure the people I cycle past think I'm having a very boring conversion on my phone.
Or slightly schizoid lol
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I also remember there was a french TV show, with a premise a bit like Friends, that was meant to be used as a language-learning tool rather than pure entertainment
Remembered now! It's called Extra, first episode here for example:
It's even more like the sort of thing you'd watch as part of a school language lesson than I remember though, but may still be a useful step.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Certainly worh doing a CEFR test in UK in my view in the same way you can learn a lot skiing indoors/dry slopes in the UK and doing BASI 1as it will give you a better basis for the real world. Ideally you need to do a course as language is an interactive process and will give you a better basis particularly with grammer which just like skiing if you don't learn the basics will cause more problems later. Deutsche-Welle is a great internet resources for German as courses and material are free and much of the material is better than paid for courses. Realistically you need to get to B2/A-level standard to be able to start to converse and really C1 minimum, which in reality is equivalent of 9 months of full-time courses. Problem is most people on the continent the standard of English is higher than a Brit's foreig language so there is a natural tendency to default to English as it is easier but try to plough on in the foreign language. The more you learn the more pleasure/acceptance from being able to interact with the locals in their own language and the more job opportunities. Higher standard language tests are increasingly looking like becoming a more likely barrier to working as a ski instructor and under the EU guidance a degree (C1) is the standard required for an examption from a language test.
All depends on your objective. I agree that B2 is minimum for sensible interaction. My French is at or a little above that and i can enjoy an evening f
round a table understanding most and able to ask if i miss something import and and making minor contributions. When i did a week in an Italian school i was assessed at B1 but that might have been generous. I am lost with conversational speed exchanges because of inadequate vocabulary and listening skills. But a formal course with writing and grammar wouldn't help as much as just more exposure. A highly cultured and educated Italian advised md not to bother with the subjunctive whereas my French teacher insisted on it. My son,s Italian girlfriend speaks fluent and expressive English despite a lot of grammatical errors and i would love to reach that level in Italian. The proprietor of a little mountain restaurant with whom i had a short chat in French yesterday asked if i was Dutch and was surprised when she found I was a Brit. I found that flattering given Dutch language skills and the fact that i was very obviously not French. B1 is fine for tourism purposes such as asking directions and understanding the answer. I much prefer speaking with people who speak little or no English and there are plenty of those in my obscure corner of the French alps and in Italy off the tourist track.
typing on phone - apologies for errors!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) and would like to get my standard to something more solid. I find it difficult while not in the country to improve, but then abroad am disappointed when conversation with a French speaker defaults to English. I'm sure living there would be the best way forward but, failing that, I read French ski mags and get to converse now and again with French colleagues at work. Now wondering if working towards a CEFR test (likely B1) would be a good way forward.
