What is a TV? Ski Total's answer may surprise you.

A snowHead

I was disappointed to find that the TV/DVD player advertised as having been installed in every bedroom at one of Ski Total's best chalets was not set up to receive television signals. Ski Total responded to my critical feedback by saying that "where a TV/DVD is advertised this means that the TV is provided for use with the DVD player only, since no channels are stipulated as being offered". They claim that they have followed this practice for some time without issue. Several other guests also felt they had been misled, expecting at the very least to see some French TV channels.

This, in my view, is misleading advertising. The equipment is a TV with integrated DVD player. If it is not connected to an aerial or other source of TV signals it should be advertised simply as a DVD player.

What do other Snowheads think?

If you are thinking of buying a holiday from Inghams/Ski Total/Ski Esprit, (all owned by Hotelplan) you might also be interested to note the following "small print" that they use apparently to avoid compensating guests for such peripheral elements of a skiing holiday. Basically you have to negotiate an individual contract if you want them to deliver all the elements they advertise. Hotelplan are happy to encourage you to buy the holidays by promoting these luxury extras but do not think (or do not want customers to think) they are contractually obliged to provide them.

How reasonable do Snowheads think this is?

" Facilities such as a lift, log fire, pool, sauna, steam-room, hot-tub, TV/DVD player, Wi-Fi, or other leisure facilities contracted through us may become unserviceable during the season. If these are important to your holiday enjoyment, please make this known to us at the time of booking and confirm to us in writing. If we are informed that there have been any changes to such facilities we shall do our best to advise you, if you have alerted us, in writing, to the fact that they are important to your booking, but we shall not be obliged in such circumstances either to provide the facility or to compensate for its absence. If such a facility is considered ‘essential’ to your holiday, then it must be made a condition of the contract, by taking the steps outlined in paragraph 10.

10 SPECIAL REQUESTS
We will pass on any special requests and try to meet them but cannot guarantee to do so. Your special request will be shown on your Confirmation Invoice to signify your request has been made but this is not an indication that it can or will be fulfilled. Special requests do not form part of our contractual agreement and we will have no liability if they are not met. Any special requests you have such as vegetarian or other special dietary meals, special facilities, specific room allocations or any other requirements you consider important, should be made known to us at the time of booking and advised to us promptly, in writing. If you require the fulfilment of your request to be a condition of your contract with us, this can only be done if you advise us in writing and our providers agree they can meet your request and we confirm this back to you in writing, separately to the Confirmation Invoice. "

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A snowHead

Jehu, a TV that doesn't receive TV signals is just called a monitor. And if you don't happen to have any DVDs it's just called a rectangular frisbee. This is why I use these new fangled things called "hotels" where you book independently, they treat you like a guest and they don't need reams of Ts&Cs.

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Ditto above, the only exception being the local info channel which cycles through open lifts, live webcams, weather etc. to help me decide where to go on a particular morning (also resulted in me actually going up the hill on days when in resort it's looked like poor vis, yet webcams show there is plenty to explore above the clouds).

Having said that, what's the point of a TV that's not connected to an aerial Puzzled

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Would normally agree with dogwatch, however the one exception would be this year, when we are arriving on the last day of the six nations! Having said that, our chalet isn't advertising TVs, so to a cozy french pub for the Fra v Irl match it is Toofy Grin

But back on topic, I would agree, if you advertise tvs, there should be local channels. We stayed with Mountain Heaven last year, where mid match the reception disappeared, they had an empty chalet which had sky, and allowed us all to go there for the remainder of the game, and brought our starters up for us! That is proper service.

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I love watchong Austrian tv on a morning. I just tune into the channel broadcasting all the local mountain top livecams

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I wouldn't be bothered by a non-functioning TV, but I'd be pretty p*ssed off if I'd booked somewhere advertised as having a pool, sauna or hot tub then found that it wasn't actually in service Confused

Isn't it this sort of thing you pay extra for when you book a 'luxury' chalet?

After all it is free

When we went with Esprit to Courchevel, the pool wasn't open to start with, I believe they managed to get it open for the last couple of days, it was their first week of the season in a new accommodation to them (and priced significantly less than future years because of it), I liked the idea of having a pool available in case it was a poor start to the season, but thankfully the snow was great, so I really didn't feel like we missed out, but that was luck not judgement.

I agree that if they advertise a TV it really should be capable of viewing TV channels as well as playing DVD's but again personally, the only thing we used the TV for last season was putting on the kids DVD's for them to have some down time after their dinner and before bed, when they have been on the go all day, that was a good way for them to unwind.

Jehu, that's just ridiculous!! I can understand that some stuff might be out of service occasionally while awaiting repair, but to use a clause so as to get out of providing a service on a permanent basis is bang out of order. I know a TV isn't a huge deal on a ski holiday but that's beyond the point. Trading standards?

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French TV channels important this week for the JO!

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I wonder whether their toilets flush?

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We are just back from an Esprit holiday in the Ducs de Savoie, Val d'Isere. The TVs in the room had both DVD players and received a mix of BBC, Sky and french TV. It took me 4 days to find this out as I had assumed that it would be french TV only and it was only when another guest commented that they had watched the stories about the flooding in the UK that I realised I could get my BBC News fix. Esprit do state in their property descriptions if the TV receives UK channels.

The T&Cs quoted above would probably fail a test in court under the Unfair Contract Terms Act. If they say the hotel has a pool and they fail to provide the service then you would be entitled to claim some form of compensation.

I won a case in the Small Claims Court against a tour operator who stated "The price we quote is the price you pay". And 4 weeks later told me that due to the cricket World Cup their suppliers had increased their prices and they were passing this on to me; an increase of around 50%. I protested and pointed out their price promise and they directed me to their T&Cs that said they could increases prices in exceptional circumstances. I disagreed with them and so did the judge. I was awareded the difference between between what the first TO had quoted me and what I then had to pay when I rebooked with another TO - BA Holidays.

The irony was that the prices crashed a few weeks before the tournament started (I wasn't going to it BTW) and even with the cancellation fee I was quids in cancelling my BA Holidays booking and rebooking with them again at the lower price with . Add in the compo from the court case and my holiday cost me next to nothing. Very Happy

At least you had a TV/DVD.
We went with total this year to val thoren and in their glossy brochere it quite clearly stated a TV/DVD was in the chalet thus we took a selection of DVD's. When we arrived we found not such thing and were told it wasn't advertised. Luckily they had wifi which meant we could log straight onto the total website and show the rep the advert which quite clearly stted TV/DVD in the chalet.
He said he would speak with head office. The next day he said they would be ordering a TV but it wouldn't arrive till the following week. I informed him amazon did next day delivery!!
Unfortunately no TV for us during the week and a lot of excuses!!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

You would expect it to have a few channels. And for those of us with kids it does help to give the kids some chill time before bed. Esprit put TVs in each room we stayed in this time. Even had cbeebies which was good.

I understand this point may have annoyed you but hopefully it was one very small issue in an otherwise excellent week of skiing.

A snowHead

A snowHead

I've got to say that the more general question of their Ts and Cs as quoted above is a bit worrying. Could be summarised as "Here's the stuff that we advertise, but actually it might not be available, and if it isn't, then tough titty."

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I wonder if [b]moira[\b] from ski total will helpfully come to this thread and comment?

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Re the tv, YES we had exactly the same with neilson this year! tv/dvd player, but no tv channels. Caught us out for the opening ceremony and I did think it was disingenuous/crap, but better than them having nothing at all, so apart from a brief round of "wtf?" at the rep we let it go. I do agree though they shouldn't be saying it's a tv, just dvd player.

Interesting note on things like hottubs. We've had one fail, but wrote it off to the inevitable dramas of hottub maintenance (one of us has one at home, they are a bug to stabilise - especially when folks keep going in without showering and then turning it up to the max) - if I'd arrived and they said it was MIA all week I don't know what I'd expect, a lot would depend on their attitude I think. Ski total have been a bit crappy with me in the past (minor stuff) so those t&c would worry me though, one more reason not to use them!

aj xx

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Set top aerials have worked well for me in apartments I have rented recently in France, they are cheap to buy, I guess there needs to be a TV transmitter in each valley anyway.

If they say it is a TV then it should be able to receive programmes.

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TV should work. So should lifts. Stay at a decent hotel. Simple, really.

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holidayloverxx, here, have this /

wink

After all it is free

Mosha Marc, ha ha , thanks - I was doing it on my phone - PITA

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I think this is a real bum deal and that Ski Total have taken every step to ensure they never have to pay out compensation even where the imporant of a facility to an individual has been highlighted to them

I suggest Ski Total drop off the bottom of the discerning skiers accommodation list.

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FFIRMIN, so presumably you've checked all the other major TO's T&Cs and found that Total are the only ones with this sort of clause?

Thought not.

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When do people have time to watch TV on a skiing holiday?

Surely the point of being on holiday is that it isn't the same as one's dull suburban English existence!

Too watch the Six Nations!

You know it makes sense.

In the morning, watching panoramacam (don't think they show that on BBC2 at 8am)

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Not fussed about tv when skiing. Usually a TV in chalet lounges before, but never seen one switched on.

A snowHead

I certainly agree with the question about watching TV on a skiing holiday in my view TV isnt necessary but I know some of my recent companions might have argued with that but facilities such a hot tube and log fire are often the deciding factor when choosing a chalet, particularly for the more "senior" ski clients. bobmcstuff - no I havent read everyones T&Cs but this does seem to me (as a former lawyer) as a particularly "weasly" set of terms and conditions which I would interested to see the Courts view of particularly if someone had tried to make a condition of the contract one of the aforementioned facilities. I could see a County Court Judge deciding that the original wording would not over ride the later condition put in by the client and potentially finding the wording described fell foul of the "Unfair Contract Terms Act" (as amended).

Sadly and for medical reasons for me a trip to alps in the true "winter" months and with the uncertainly a chalet holiday might give vis a vis heating on all day, hot tub availability and other creature comforts like a really large duvet to curl up in my days in chalets and winter skiing are over.

I am going to Canada in April to simewhere where the heating in the room can turned up if necessary, the fire will be lit if there is someone at home in the lodge during the day and I will be able to get back to "base" fairly quickly if and when I get cold or my body shouts "enough" (which it well knows how to do but I have only very recently found out why it does it). Its a bummer to have such a condition for keen outdoor sports and skiing person but I hope to be able to do a little spring skiing in Canada and while I have pretty much always rejected water sports - I dont like inadvertent dunkings and head plunges associated with such sports as water skiing and wind surfing and yachingting I think I will find it within myself to float on a coral reef in warm sea wearing a snorkel or even idly paddling around in small canoe on calm waters such as you can do in the West Indies, Indian Ocean etc. Its a tough job but I think I shall find some consolation and even my husband is enured to the thought although there will inevitably be much grumping on the long flights, queues at immigration in the heat and flies and during the transfer until he gets settled under a palm tree with some good crosswords or is able to visit an international cricket match (WI springs to mind)

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Shimmy Alcott, At least it's still sort of TV themed. Not one mention of the R word yet, Smile

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if only i could find a kitchen fitter that could put a tv in....

Help!!

What is a TV? Ski Total's answer may surprise you.

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