 Poster: A snowHead
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FYI...
Telegraph Ski and Snowboard are running a competition to win a 'flare' safety device.
Or maybe a flare 'safety' device... Just thought i'd bring it to peeps attention as the topic was pretty hot for a while.
Does it take much more to add a receive function?
http://www.skiandsnowboard.co.uk/london/cambridge-ski-safety-competition/
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 1-02-14 9:59; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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it does and such devices exist and called 'transceivers'. The ones advertised are just gadgets without any practical use.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Disappointing for that magazine. I would like to think media companies making money out of the ski industry would at least promote the right kind of stuff.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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But don't forget Telegraph have a big stake in the ski shows where they happily take cash from the likes of Cambridge Ski Safety for a stand! That guys face was a picture when my 9 year old listened carefully (while doing her best cute blonde act in case there were any freebies to be bagged!) to his spiel saying how much she needed one and then asked 'but how would I find someone who was buried with that? I think my beacon is better when I am off piste!'
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shouldn't be hard to screw with Cambridge Ski Safety a little more....
I got some nasty / amusing emails from James Aubrey Robson after getting his product removed from sale at Snow & Rock.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flangesax wrote: |
| Does it take much more to add a receive function? |
Adding an analogue receiver would be fairly simple, but not many folk would want something like that. Adding a 3-antenna digital receiver? Way harder.
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A quick copy & paste from previous emails I wrote 
Dear Telegraph Ski & SnowBoard
I am contacting you about the product which you promote called the "Cambridge Ski Safety" avalanche emitter.
http://www.skiandsnowboard.co.uk/london/cambridge-ski-safety-competition/
This product has attracted lots of bad press in recent years.
Snow & Rock and Ski Barlett ski stores got some very bad publicity from stocking it...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=99287
This search only avalanche beacon is immoral for several reasons
1. Avalanche beacons depend on a search mode and rescue within 15 min by other group members. By the time ski patrol arrive its too late.
2. There is no guarantee this product won't be used just "on piste" as intended.
3. Modern beacons are easy to use in search mode. There is no valid reason not to have a search mode.
4. If users really want a cheap beacon then the "pieps freeride" is only £75 and has a search mode.
5. Inexperienced users using this product will not know to switch out of search mode in event of any incident involving another member of the group.
6. This beacon does not meet EU safety regulations. It has not been tested, and never can be due to lack of search mode.
I strongly recommend that you stop promoting this product.
Doing so can only damage the reputation of the Ski & Snowboard show.
Reputable companies such as yourself should be promoting avalanche safety and good practice - not "transmit only" beacons.
Please take time to google "snow-be tranmsit only". There is lots of negative information and reasons why this product is a horrible idea.
Additionally the managing director of "snow-be" has changed their name on their official www site several times after negative feedback. This is not a company to be trusted - nor does this product met EU safety requirements!
Please be warned that being associated with this product could seriously damage your companies reputation!
If it is not then I will be forced to highlight the issue on the various UK ski forums / press.
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If this just gives off a signal, would it be worth getting one just to use as a target for searching for with a real Transceiver? Trouble is with just the two of us I can search for her's and she can search for mine but we can't really do multiple burials. Maybe having one would be a cheaper way of doing it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
6. This beacon does not meet EU safety regulations. It has not been tested, and never can be due to lack of search mode.
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To add to that, I wonder if there's been ANY testing done on signal drift and how often or IF it can be recalibrated.
| OwenM wrote: |
| If this just gives off a signal, would it be worth getting one just to use as a target for searching for with a real Transceiver? Trouble is with just the two of us I can search for her's and she can search for mine but we can't really do multiple burials. Maybe having one would be a cheaper way of doing it. |
If there's only two of you, then you can't get a multiple burial
But yes, training and testing is the only use I would have for this device. That being said, you could pick up a second hand transceiver on eBay for around the same money.
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How many times will this public danger re-emerge?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| OwenM wrote: |
| If this just gives off a signal, would it be worth getting one just to use as a target for searching for with a real Transceiver? Trouble is with just the two of us I can search for her's and she can search for mine but we can't really do multiple burials. Maybe having one would be a cheaper way of doing it. |
Its a saving of £40 over the cost of a new Pieps Freeride on amazon (I don't see any for £75). The Pieps is an actual working, useful transceiver that can be used as a spare (given a decent bit of practise!), whereas the Flare supports a rather dubious company and has no other use.
You might be able to get an old analogue transciever second hand even more cheaply than the Flare, though possibly it might no longer transmit on the correct frequency.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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^ Cheapest Pieps Freeride is now £82 on google shopping.
(The UK£ got stronger!)
The Cambridge Ski Safety and a harness is £64.50
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 31-01-14 23:38; edited 1 time in total
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My 9 year old is very quick finding hidden beacons in the garden using her Freeride.
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You know it makes sense.
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My understanding is that Flare, to give it its new name, is being offered to and considered by ski schools to equip kids in classes (they exhibited at ISPO Munich). Whatever the well-documented negatives (with which I totally agree), I can actually see that sales tactic getting some traction. Imagine the scene... mummy, daddy and au pair handing little Charmaine and Hugo over to the gnarly instructor but comforted by all the visible safety devices in play (helmet, goggles, high viz bib, Flare). Ignorance is bliss. Fear sells. People believe almost anything 'experts' tell them. The bulk price to ski schools will be zilcho because it's just another electronic box and, before you know it, they'll be everywhere. Look at Recco. Just the rambling thoughts of a bloke back from the pub.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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^ messing with Cambridge Ski Safety has become one of my side hobbies
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Poster: A snowHead
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Haggis_Trap, isn't that also known as stalking?
I notice cigarettes are legal and still on sale. They seem to kill a fair few. What do you do though? Invest your life in it? At the end of the day Flare is sold as an on-piste avalanche safety device AFAIK. Well I've been knocking around for yonks and only seen a few on-piste slides and none of them would have buried you. Not saying bigger ones don't happen but they are very very rare as we know. So this product will never get used in anger if used as sold. So what's the real problem? I may not agree with it but as far as I can tell it's legal. As always... Caveat emptor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| So this product will never get used in anger if used as sold. So what's the real problem? |
The issue may be that if someone is asked, when going off piste, "have you got a transceiver" and the answer given is yes, when all they really have is a 'flare'.
Ignorance of the subject to the level to buy one of these doesn't preclude ignorance of genuinely understanding the differences.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| feef wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| So this product will never get used in anger if used as sold. So what's the real problem? |
The issue may be that if someone is asked, when going off piste, "have you got a transceiver" and the answer given is yes, when all they really have is a 'flare'. |
But would they be carrying a shovel and probe? Probablly not. So it really doesn't matter a great deal if they only carry a 'flare'.
If they have never practice searching (which they can't with a 'flare'), they wouldn't be too helpful...
Can it be turned off so at least not interfere in a search?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
Can it be turned off so at least not interfere in a search? |
The question isn't can, it's would it be turned off?
If they haven't got the sense to buy a transceiver, probe and shovel and to practise with them, what's the likelyhood they'd understand the need to turn it off
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No it's not. It's attracted a vindictive campaign of harrasment from a bunch of internet warriors
No, a bunch of internet losers beat their chests to prove how hard core they were to an audience who were much smaller, not only in size, and much less concerned than they imagined.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
This search only avalanche beacon is immoral for several reasons |
grow up you ridiculous little twit... if you are only 13 then I do apologise but if you're a grown up then act like it.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
blah blah I'm better than you are blah blah
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| If it is not then I will be forced to highlight the issue on the various UK ski forums / press. |
If I were them, I'd be looking at getting a harassment notice issued.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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milton9999, you are Mr Cambridge Ski Safety and I claim my £5.
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| milton9999 wrote: |
No it's not. It's attracted a vindictive campaign of harrasment from a bunch of internet warriors
No, a bunch of internet losers beat their chests to prove how hard core they were to an audience who were much smaller, not only in size, and much less concerned than they imagined.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
This search only avalanche beacon is immoral for several reasons |
grow up you ridiculous little twit... if you are only 13 then I do apologise but if you're a grown up then act like it.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
blah blah I'm better than you are blah blah
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| If it is not then I will be forced to highlight the issue on the various UK ski forums / press. |
If I were them, I'd be looking at getting a harassment notice issued. |
The great thing about the internet is that some clueless punter will always choose to disagree.
I salute your right to ski off piste using a transmit only beacon
However I also maintain my right to suggest it is a rubbish idea - and to point out its numerous flaws to anyone stupid enough to promote its use ?
Remember that this device was originally sold by James Aubery Robson for off piste use!
He then changed the product and company name to remove himself from previous bad publicity, after people created a fuss.
Cambridge Ski Safety deserve everything they get.
http://unofficialnetworks.com/dangerous-piece-avalanche-safety-gear-world-snowbe-98574/
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milton9999, perrrrlease... what an effective way to promote your business... join a forum as a sock and then attack....
(probably gets lessons from the white house)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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milton9999, the funny thing is this so called 'vindictive campaign' is really only targeted at the product for being a terrible idea and dangerous. If the CSS chaps took the criticism on board and reworked their product then 99% of people would likely have no issue with it. Instead what has happened is that the criticism has been ignored and the same dodgy product rebranded.
Ducking blatant safety issues and appearing dishonest by rebranding when faced with criticism does the company no good in terms of building goodwill with the customer base.
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One of the key points in my mind was one I raised some time ago, and which still hasn't been addressed.
Since the beacon can't meet the the required standards for transceivers due to the fact they can't receive ( http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/radio/avalanche-beacons ), what evidence can be provided that they meet ALL the other relevant aspects of the standard, including operating termperatures, battery life, frequency drift/calibration.
Without evidence to demonstrate that these devices will operate to a standard that matches ALL aspects of the transceiver standards except the receive mode, then one cannot even say they are fit for the on-piste, in resort purpose for which they are being marketed.
To me, this is the elephant in the room.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Probably as useful as a plastic shovel 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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milton = a village near Cambridge
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milton9999, I've done a bit of off piste skiing, my 9 year old has done a lot of off piste skiing, we both the think these transmit only gadgets are a stupid and potentially dangerous idea. OK avalanches can occur on piste but the chances of being caught in one are probably around the same as your chance of being hit by lightening so if we haven't got our beacons on a piste day we adopt the same level of protection as most people do for lightening strikes, be aware of of our environment and don't do anything daft!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
The great thing about the internet is that some clueless punter will always choose to disagree.
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Actually the great thing about the internet is the anonymity, you've no clue who you're insulting. Your arrogance makes you suppose everyone knows less than you.
The thing about an idiot stick is to make sure you're absolutely certain which end you're on.
& no, I'd not buy one, they're rubbish but they've every right to sell them without being harassed by a bunch of internet clowns trying to impress each other. It's Saturday night, what are your plans? Do some wheelies outside MacDonalds on your BMX to impress the girls from the local comp'?
love & kisses from a professional version of what you're pretending to be
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| milton9999, you are Mr Cambridge Ski Safety and I claim my £5. |
ah yes, Lizzard, I think I've got this one covered. You're a alpine version of the classic Frost sketch aren't you?
You look down on everyone because although you've got a unskilled, menial job & no prospects you're actually better than everyone else because it's in the alps. Oh, and you've got a blog.
I catch on quick.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| milton9999 wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
The great thing about the internet is that some clueless punter will always choose to disagree.
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Actually the great thing about the internet is the anonymity, you've no clue who you're insulting. Your arrogance makes you suppose everyone knows less than you.
The thing about an idiot stick is to make sure you're absolutely certain which end you're on.
& no, I'd not buy one, they're rubbish but they've every right to sell them without being harassed by a bunch of internet clowns trying to impress each other. It's Saturday night, what are your plans? Do some wheelies outside MacDonalds on your BMX to impress the girls from the local comp'?
love & kisses from a professional version of what you're pretending to be |
It seems that milton9999 has some sand stuck in their vadge...
Apologies for pointing out why this product is unsuitable : I can feel your anger from here.
You will need to try harder to get a rise though 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
you've got a unskilled, menial job & no prospects
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Mate, even toilet-cleaning is a skill - I see it done badly all the time. Not that I do it myself, since my responsibilities are more about staff and guest management, budgeting, supplier liaison blah etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting that milton9999 has responded to most other queries apart from mine.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, ah, sorry, you supervise someone cleaning someones else's toilets for someone else. The micro-differentiation is obvious now you point it out. And people said you'd never amount to anything, they'll almost certainly be sorry now. You're not winning the 5 pounds but where would I sent it? I assume it'll double your wages for the week.
Haggis_Trap, do mum and dad know what you're doing in your bedroom? Can't you just self pleasure like a normal teenager instead of smiting your enemies on the internet?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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milton9999, you know absoultely sod all about me, you rude little man. Perhaps you'd like to address the argument like an intelligent adult rather than just chucking playground insults about? Just a thought.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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milton9999, hellooo? Any comment?
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feef, Milton seems to be ignoring mine and toastertalby's opinions as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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feef, and mine. Seems our local "I'm a lawyer what does things innit" doesn't like substantive criticism.
The amusing thing is that whilst he is all about supporting our poor defenseless rebrander's right to sell he doesn't support the right of the consumer to criticise the product and inform advertisers and sellers of their opinion. This way leads the selling of fake metal detectors and other snake oil.
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FAQ
