 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
What are the skiing characteristics of skiing a ski that is too stiff for you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
They feel like they won't turn or take a lot of effort or you need to ski really fast to get them to perform well.
Although all of the above could have other causes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
A lot depends on the length/radius of the ski. A too-stiff GS ski will turn slowly but feel rock solid and smooth. Like a train on a straight set of rails. The more angle you put on it the better it will feel. A too stiff SL ski will ski horribly. When you tip it over the middle of the ski will not be in contact with the snow. As the tip bites the ski will have no stability and try to spit you off. A bit like riding a bronco. The more angle you put on it the worse it will feel, especially if you don't ski with enough drive and energy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
abd, it'll set you on your backside 4 times in the first 50 yards, until you get cross with it!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Scccrrrrrr. Grrrrr. Scrrrr jjuddddeerr Sccccrrrrr and other similar sounds
Repeat ad nauseum until the lactic acid in your calves and thighs match the pain in the tendons in your knees
Well that's what I remember anyway
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
What are the skiing characteristics of skiing a ski that is too stiff for you?
|
I also think that, in all but rare cases, you are probably better off skiing two skis rather than one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
abd, lack of control is the most obvious, you will be unable to carve a turn smoothly at low speeds
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Your pants are too tight?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
hyperkub, "When you tip it over the middle of the ski will not be in contact with the snow" - for an adult? I assure you that at least as far as my 60kgs and my 165cm FIS SLs go this is simply not the case.
And what exactly abd, do you mean by "too stiff"? longitudinal stiffness has (within the ranges that are typically used) little to do (IMO) with how the ski feels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I saw a series of pictures illustrating this point taken at a masters competition. Most of the racers were using FIS 165 skis. On several occasions you could see daylight between the centre of the ski and the snow when the skis were angulated in the turns. They were not heavy/strong/skillful/fast enough to bend the ski. Of course this is most likely to happen in an icy race track when a lot of angulation is applied. But even a light person can bend a stiff ski if they ski powerfully and with enough speed. And anyone csn ski a stiff ski if you don't do anything demanding with it.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
hyperkub, that's interesting. I am struggling to get my head around the physics as even my puny weight can deflect my 165 FIS SLs completely while static so that there's no light showing.
Pictures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
A) you have to bend the ski into considerable reverse camber when doing a tight carved turn, not just get it flat.
B) you have to bend the ski quickly in a real skiing situation. Its a dynamic system not a static system. What is happening is that the skier is getting the ski up on its edge quicker than the ski bends.
The same thing happens with long stiff skis. If you put a skier new to racing onto (for example) a pair of my GS skis which are 189/r28 the first thing will happen is that they will tip the ski over at their first turn....but nothing much will happen and they will be quite likely to fall over. They expected the ski to bend and turn and when they don't get the expected reaction from the ski they become unbalanced. The main difference with a long straight ski is that it will still be in contact with the snow along its length.
I can't remember where I saw the pictures. Maybe on epicski???
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
hyperkub, I'm still not seeing it. I get your point, but , no I don't see it.
I was skiing powder last week on my 203 SGs and they were fine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Skiing a 204 SG ski in powder will work, but it almost certainly isn't carving (unless you are travelling extremely fast). So it's not such a relevant comparison. Incidentally SG skis are softer than GS skis....
Let's throw the question around. Why do ski manufacturers make soft skis if anyone of 60kg or more can handle a stiff FIS SL ski?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
BTW the first time my son skied on an SG ski he fell over on his first turn, just as described above.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I used to think i liked having a stiff ski - maybe it was my macho side...now having spent the last 2 years on movement ski's they are generally a softer ski than the enduros and Blackeye TI in addition to atomic and rossi slalom skis, and i have now realised that a less stiff ski is much easier to ski, fewer aching muscles and much more fun in almost all situations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| abd wrote: |
| What are the skiing characteristics of skiing a ski that is too stiff for you? |
When you have to post on snowheads asking?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Funny man kitenski, funny man
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| hyperkub wrote: |
Let's throw the question around. Why do ski manufacturers make soft skis if anyone of 60kg or more can handle a stiff FIS SL ski? |
Because there's also power involved. An explosively strong lightweight skiier could probably flex the ski more than a heavier skiier who's not so nimble and not so explosive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
abd, 
When my wife borrowed those skis you did your L1 on she hated them, although she could turn on them she said it was really hard work and she felt like she had gone back years in her skiing ability. I suspect that was due to the fact they were too stiff for her.
Shouldn't you be wallowing in fresh snow???
and are you asking about some specific skis you've tried?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
IIRC one of the Irish racers (Conor Lyne) had issues with his skis being too stiff in the run-up to the World Champs or Olympics, had to remove the Powerline plate and revert to the older plate and subsequently found he was going much better. philbo may know more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We are wallowing in soft snow (30cm overnight & it's been snowing all day - apparently we are due 70cm today. Alta Badia is apparently closed due to snow).
I hired a pair of Rossi 9GSs yesterday; had a great time carving on the piste, however as I got tired & the piste got all bumped up they were much harder work. It's interesting, because for doing instructor training you can't be changing skis every 5 mins so you need to have a ski that's versatile - shame because on piste the GS skis were loads of fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sideshow_Bob, what interests me is what was happening that caused him to come to the conclusion that they were too stiff? I'm guessing it's that he was struggling to bend them and therefore manipulate the turn shape. However that's a ski for a particular purpose (ie carving), rather than what most of us (including instructors in training) want is a ski that's good in a variety of conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| lampygirl wrote: |
| hyperkub wrote: |
Let's throw the question around. Why do ski manufacturers make soft skis if anyone of 60kg or more can handle a stiff FIS SL ski? |
Because there's also power involved. An explosively strong lightweight skiier could probably flex the ski more than a heavier skiier who's not so nimble and not so explosive. |
If you read my earlier post you are saying pretty much what I said. Explosive power means that the ski will bend quicker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| abd wrote: |
| Sideshow_Bob, what interests me is what was happening that caused him to come to the conclusion that they were too stiff? I'm guessing it's that he was struggling to bend them and therefore manipulate the turn shape. However that's a ski for a particular purpose (ie carving), rather than what most of us (including instructors in training) want is a ski that's good in a variety of conditions. |
The explanation I gave was in terms of carving (i.e. what happens when you tip the ski up onto its edge on a relatively hard surface). In other circumstances the ski will behave differently, requiring a different description/explanation. For example when skiing moguls the edges are not of primary concern. What matters is that the ski/leg acts a bit like a car suspension, where the ski acts like a spring and the leg muscle like a shock-absorber. A sports car might be lightweight but it will have stiff springs and perform well on a smooth racetrack. Take it on a bumpy road and your teeth will fall out. Conversely a limousine is heavy but is softly sprung. Supremely comfortable and absorbs the bumps and jolts....but take it round corners fast and it will roll and stagger. It's the same with skis. The GS ski is like a sports car and you can crank it over on a nice surface and get a surprisingly tight turn out of it. However when the snow is bumpy it transmits every jolt, leaving the shock absorbers (your legs) with a whole load more work to do. This isn't an exact analogy because GS skis are also heavier, which helps them to chop through smaller ruts and crud. The extra length also gives the skier more stability in the longitudinal plane.
M
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
