 Poster: A snowHead
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I wondered whether anyone had any experiences of working a season for the above. I want to know if what my son and his girlfriend are experiencing is par for the course or not.
They are running a 14-16 person chalet, and went out on Sunday December 1st. There was a lot of training, and they didn't get a day off until Friday 13th, nearly 2 weeks later. They were all supposed to get uniform at the group training in the first few days, but most people didn't get theirs and were told they'd get it in resort. 18th of January and they still don't have it. They aren't allowed in the chalets they work in unless in uniform, but they each have one shirt lent them by a friend who got her 3. So they have one shirt each, one day off a week when they don't need to be wearing it, and no access to a washing machine until they kicked up enough of a fuss about it just after New Year. The friend's shirts are size small, my son keeps being told to tuck his in, but he's a 6 foot lad in a small polo shirt!
For the first 4 weeks the guest manifest for the following week was incorrect for various reasons, usually dietary requirements not notified, so the guests turn up on the first day to a dinner where they haven't been catered for. On Christmas week they thought they had 14 guests, but 16 arrived due to a last minute booking on the Friday night and no-one bothering to tell them. Another week they were expecting 2 children, but there were three because an age had been written down wrong. I don't know what the last couple of weeks have been like, I think they are just too busy and fed up to communicate with home.
A couple of weeks ago the dishwasher broke, and they were told it may not get fixed because there weren't any spare in the company. They're cooking 3 course meals pus canapes every night, and they don't even have a food mixer, or soup bowls, or enough cutlery and crockery to lay the whole meal out beforehand.
There is supposed to be a chalet of the week awarded , but last week no-one got awarded it with no explanation, and that's in the middle of the low spot in January when they should be trying to boost staff morale.
I'm sure there is more, they are both very fed up. It's very hard not to be a concerned parent and try to jump in and complain/try to fix stuff, especially when we were out there at New Year (staying elsewhere) and could see how hard they were trying to do everything properly to give the guests the service they were paying for. Cos it's not a cheap chalet. But of course, you have to leave them to fight their own battles.
Just wondered if this rang true with anyone else, or whether they are somewhat unlucky?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Which country?
Not being notified of dietary requirements is common, very rarely the companies fault, more often than not it was either the guests not notifying the company in advance, or the booking agent (iglu were/are notorious for it in my experience) not notifying the company to pass on to resort. Similar issue with guest ages. Chalets tend not to have food processors in them, but should have a stick blender and more often than not an electric whisk. Day off they should have had (note, as with other companies, it is a 24 hr period rather than calendar day, so midday Wednesday to midday Thursday for example would count as a day off). Lack of cutlery/crockery in chalet, have they asked the RCM, from experience during set up week in the chalet when an inventory is filled out, you also have to do a wish list for missing items and anything else you may want/need.
Feel free to drop me a PM if you want, worked for them for several seasons and have done odd seasons for a few other companies.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller reported elsewhere a serious flooding incident at Inghams' HQ, which apparently disrupted their business quite seriously at a critical time. Maybe this explains what sounds like untypical performance for this company.
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karin,
Not getting day off in the beginning and having a day off per week is normal and made pretty clear to applicants. It's the same despite which company you work for. Dietary requirements should be on by the booking team to the reps who pass it on to the chalet hosts. Sometimes people just don't pass these on to the TO, so the chalet hosts are meant to double check if there are any dietary requirements on the first night when they do their introductions.
Working in the mountains is difficult, and there are issues but it comes with the territory. For a lot this isn't what they expected and/or want to deal with so you get a fair few people leaving in January. It's not meant to be an easy working environment and this is compounded by the fact that for a fair few it's their first full-time job. Should also be said that a lot of initiative (like in any workplace) falls on the hosts to inform the reps/chalet manager to raise their issues and ensure that progress is being made.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Daughter of a friend took her own electrical equipment and cake tins with her when she did a season in Meribel - on the recommendation of some of her friends who had done seasons previously.
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| karin wrote: |
I'm sure there is more, they are both very fed up. It's very hard not to be a concerned parent and try to jump in and complain/try to fix stuff, especially when we were out there at New Year (staying elsewhere) and could see how hard they were trying to do everything properly to give the guests the service they were paying for. Cos it's not a cheap chalet. But of course, you have to leave them to fight their own battles. |
This. The curse of the helicoptered parent generation.
Your son and his g/f may be having a bit of a tough time but it is their tough time. A good learning experience for him. It is only a short term work experience and the last thing he needs, I imagine, is a parent trying to stick their nose in.
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karin,
Working a season can be tough and a lot of hosts do find it difficult at the beginning. It is also easy to get caught up in feeling angry and/or stressed about things when you're really busy and trying to get your head round a completely new job. Things like having to wash the starter plates for dessert, last minute dietary reqs or not having a chalet of the week award can feel like the end of the world when you're already stressed and tired but actually these are par for the course in the majority of big companies.
Some practical advice for what you can do to help is:
- Get them to speak to their resort manager, explain the situation about the uniform and ask whether they would prefer to provide more uniform or whether they would prefer them to work in their own smart clothes - saving the uniform for the first night. Often things like this happen at the beginning of the season and everyone forgets about them - if they ask again now they will either get more uniform or permission to wear their own stuff I'm sure. 3 polo shirts is usual per person.
- Get them to ask the maint man in resort to come and look at the dishwasher with them. The majority (but not all admittedly) of dishwasher problems can be fixed relatively easilly if you spend some time online looking at suggestions for how to fix it. A good place to start is checking if there is an error code and if so looking this up; if it is washing but not well unplugging it, pulling it our and cleaning everything top to bottom etc etc. A few hours spent trying to fix the dishwasher will pay dividends later. You can't run a season without a dishwasher so if this doesn't work they should call their manager, explain what they have tried and then ask for a new dishwasher. If this doesn't work they should call then next person up. This is the only thing on their list which is a real issue and they should push to get this sorted.
- Look at their set menu and make changes to accommodate the equipment which they have. If they don't have soup bowls serve the soup in dessert bowls. If they don't have any bowls serve salad instead etc etc. If they organise themseleves in advance for what they are using this issue will dissapear as they will know what needs to be washed when etc.
-Most companies have a system for replacing breakages/missing equip which will have been explained in training. If things need to match (eg 3 small plates to match the ones they have) they can make this happen quicker by sending measurements, photos and makes so the person doing the purchasing has all of the information needed.
- check numbers, dietry reqs etc etc in the welcome chat with their guests so they have some warning before they serve dinner.
- Try to encourage them not to think or worry about the chalet once they leave in the morning. Do their job in the morning and the evening to the best of their abilities, and enjoy their ski time in between. After all - it's why they are there!
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karin, i've never worked a season, but know a few people who have.
i'm afraid your son and girlfriend's experience is not uncommon.
The drop-out rate at the start of the season is considerable
If you happen to be in a resort before christmas, you will often see/hear young (they are usually young) English in tears about "exhaustion", "can't cope", "ghastly room", "broken equipment", and this is before any guests have actually arrived.
Then for the staff, the first couple of weeks are two of the toughest of the year: Christmas and New Year.
Busy, full chalets, clients with high expectations, and the staff are still green and learning.
It is tough. Some survive, many don't.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Actually why do the chalet people not get a day off, does that not contravene both British and French law?
Why should they put up with such awful working conditions so that people in Inghams can make lots of money.
I think it is disgraceful how some of the seasonaires are treated by some companies. Coming out for the season this year I know lots of seasonaires, and while some companies are ok some are just taking a loan of young people out for the season.
I don't work by the way, I'm retired so no axe to grind.
Good on the parent above for raising the issue.
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I have a food intolerance (not sure if that is the right word?) to eggs & cream eating too much of either goes straight through me and worse triggers an asthma attack. Thankfully I can eat a small amount of both with no ill effect. I always declare it and the last two Hols I have gone on I have booked DIRECTLY with Esprit so no middle men to blame. I always arrive with the staff having no knowledge. We have been booking the larger chalet hotels so they always have a food choice meaning it is easy to to avoid those foods so it hasn't been a problem. However if my reaction was more serious it could be nasty and I can see how difficult it would be in much smaller chalets where the amount extra food / variety of food available is much less.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Welcome, everyone, to ... err ... natives.co.uk !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Our son and his girlfriend are out working with Esprit this season and we have hardly heard from him (only when he wants something) which I think is a good sign.
They have a good room right next to the slopes, on some work days they can manage up to 4 hours skiing a day and they also have a full 24 hours off to do whatever they want.
They are provided with all their food, ski equipment for the season, a full area lift pass and I know he isn't finding it too stressful.
They have had a few minor gripes, he was also asked to rep for Inghams on transfer day on one of his first weeks and thought he would be shown what to do but was just left to get on with it. I understand the training weeks were a bit stressful but they seem to have settled into it now.
karin, I think the relatively minor problems your son and girlfriend are facing are par for the course for seasonal work, it could be you haven't heard from them recently because they have sorted out their problems and that they are having a good time.
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Karin, as others said it is unfortunately par for the course. But the resort manager and/or maintenance person should sort out any shortages in cutlery and the faulty dishwasher. I spent my last season as a resort manager in Meribel for a chalet company and I was forever popping down to the stores for replacement crockery, glasses and cutlery.
The uniform bit is pretty poor, to be honest, not really any excuses for that one. I assume they were also provided with company ski jackets?
Dietary requirements not making it through is unfortunately all too common; however it often happens because the guests haven't informed the TO (and from personal experience they sometimes kick off and lie about the fact that they did notify the tour operator, just to make a point). But, while it is a bit of a hassle, the resort manager/chalet manager should be able to help them source replacement ingredients at late notice.
As for the lack of day off for 2 weeks; luxury!! I started my last season on November 15th and, for one reason or another (including standing in for and replacing staff who I had to let go) I didn't get a full day off until early January! And the one day off a week is entirely standard for chalet hosts.
In summary; they may tell you how hard it all is, but they get to go skiing when they want so you shouldn't get too precious about it. Chalet hosting IS hard work, no doubt. And things often do deviate from the plan, there are hurdles to overcome. But overcoming them is the fun part, so just let them get on with it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Dav, You were lucky!
There were 130 of us livin' in a shoebox in't middle o' road
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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thecramps, 
But of course, we had it tough....
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Poster: A snowHead
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1) No day off during training week(s): this is normal, though in my experience it wasn't a particularly busy time, and we were free most evenings.
2) No uniform: I find this odd. I personally would have just told my boss politely that I would be wearing my own clothes until such time as the uniform was provided.
3) Dietary requirements not specified/age wrong: common! Usually not the company's fault. Generally the group leader has filled out the form on everyone's behalf without actually checking with the rest of their group. Plus you get the odd one that just likes to make a fuss 
4) Dishwasher not working. Well, things break from time to time but I would definitely be stamping my feet about this one after two weeks! In a 13 bed chalet we ran ours 3x a day and washed all pots by hand... it's crazy to do all that by hand. If the company hasn't got a spare one and it can't be fixed, well, they can go and buy one.
5) No food mixer, soup bowls, or enough cutlery and crockery to lay the whole meal out beforehand. Common! You can usually mix the menu around to make life easier, but we used to run the dishwasher after starter anyway (containing starter and tea things) so could generally make it work. We took out our own food processor, electric whisk, kitchen knives, and cake tins after hearing these would generally not be provided/or not be much good.
Basically, most of it is par for the course. The uniform seems to me to be the company's problem not theirs: they can't wear what they've not been provided with. If it's important to the company they wear it, then it should appear. The only thing that seems a real issue is the dishwasher, which they should escalate, politely but firmly until it's resolved.
As has been said... chalet work is hard work for very little pay. We generally worked about 60 hours a week. But when you are out on the slopes you should be able to forget about it all...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What Gämsbock says, though the lack of uniform, crockery and dishwasher is all pretty shît and any half decent RM would have been making a pain in the bum of themselves about it long since. That particular company doesn't have the best reputation as someone to work for, though it's not the worst either.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds like the chalet manager in resort is not the best. It would be his/her responsibility to tell the local head office and sort these issues out. To be honest the managers have plenty to deal with as well and some care more than others. They are like any big operator to work for to be honest. There are plenty of youngsters after a ski season so they will get as much out of you as they can, everyone is replaceable...
If they don't get time to ski and enjoy the season then they might as well quit or start asking around for a different job in resort. We always worked hard but had enough time off to make it worthwhile. Not always the case any longer...
With chalets though things get a lot quicker once you have practiced the menu and got quicker at cleaning! They should be free to ski between 11:00 and 16:00.
I really hope that they will get into the swing of things and have a great time in the end!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
the managers have plenty to deal with
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No we don't. I did about four things today, and that was on a changeover.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My son recently arrived to cook at a very high end chalet on a friday morning, with Russian guests arriving that day. He had no idea how many they would be, let alone dietary requirements (he knew the name of the chalet and googling suggested it only slept 10 people, so he cooked for 10 though in the end they were only 7). He had to order food to be delivered to the chalet for the first day and had to assume there'd be nothing (ie no salt and pepper, no oils etc). He did two weeks without a day off and indeed with very little time off as some of them were generally hanging round the chalet all day and expecting meals and snacks to be produced (fair enough, with what they were paying). He was generally working a 15 hour day but it was only for two weeks and he was paid shedloads. His first season in the Alps (some years ago, this isn't his usual line of work but he was so short of dosh a couple of weeks work was welcome) he went out to work with Scott Dunn and got so fed up with them before the training period finished that he told them they could stuff their job and went freelance. Whatever the level of chalet, and whether it's simple cooking or "fine dining" I guess the stress of that kind of job is pretty high and I do think a lot is asked of inexperienced kids having to run a chalet. Though in the days when we stayed in chalets I found they did a pretty good job - and one couple, in a cheap chalet in Plagne 1800, were exceptional. They really learned as they went along, and because of their attitude nobody minded if things went a little bit wrong.
Whatever the problems, I can't imagine that having a parent intervening with your employer would be welcome - it would be hugely embarrassing!
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karin, hi my son is currently working for Inghams in a hotel and my daughter and b/f for Esprit in a 28 person chalet, they are all loving it, they all say it's really hard work and Changeover day for my daughter is a 3.30am start, they didn't get a day off as such in the first couple of weeks but did get free time, my daughters had a couple of minor issues but got them sorted with her managers, they have said the company is good to work for, they knew what to expect and are just getting on with it, the upshot is that they ski most days and are having an excellent social life.
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sounds like a great life experience to me
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I have got to say, working for two weeks without a day off? problem? Get a grip, please get a grip. welcome to the real world.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thecramps, Oh push off. Most people get two days a week off, as you well know.
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I run my own business, work long hours and don't get much time off but if I was Inghams I would be embarrassed at how this chalet is run. It somehow seems acceptable just because it's up a mountain ? Why drive your staff so hard that there is a chance try will drop out, it seems dumb having trained and invested in them. Surely the business model can afford basic stuff and in large companies some support staff. I've stayed I'm chalets like this befOre and had some sympathy with the chalet crew, I have also seen a few lazy disorganized ones but not many, most seem so eager to please the guests it's very nice to see great spirited young people trying hard. I hope it gets better for them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This thread reminds me of why I prefer hotels to TO chalets.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've stayed with Ski Total a couple of times; the staff always seem happy - and allowed to get on with their activities in somewhat haphazard fashion. Staff at the start of the season will be a bit green. It's their first-ever job; it's certainly their first-ever catering job. It's hard physical work of the sort they've never done before; they're hungover half the time.
I must say, if I were running a chalet company I'd be employing eastern Europeans professional hospitality staff, not wet-behind-the ears gap-year students. That said, it's a part of the whole experience - being looked after by somewhat green youngsters.
By the end of the season they'll have it sorted and will manage six hours' skiing (/partying) every day.
But they should hassle for the dishwasher. As for the teeshirts; that merely shows a level of naivety. ST cannot sack them for not turning up in uniform if it's never been provided; can they!?
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pam w, your Son, IIRC, did earn a few thousand for that couple of weeks work? Bit different to the OP's kids
No uniform and unable to sort out the dishwasher - they really should be insisting these issues are dealt with
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You know it makes sense.
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| achilles wrote: |
| This thread reminds me of why I prefer hotels to TO chalets. |
+1 or even self catering with most meals out!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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They aren't managing their own RM very well - they need to grow a pair and say they'll be wearing their own clothes until they get their uniform and demand maintenance guy is on their dishwsaher case and/or limiting their menu until they get enough crockery. Food mixer - I understood experience chalet hands took their own - that's a cas eof not enough research I'd guess.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
if I were running a chalet company I'd be employing eastern Europeans professional hospitality staff
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No you wouldn't. They aren't going to work for £60 a week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lizzard, Yes, but if you want that become a desk pilot. Being asked to work two weeks straight is hardly slave labour and not so awful is my point, especially in the context of seasonal work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, yes, my point really was that this sort of job requires quite a lot of initiative and resilience, at whatever level you are doing it. Given how little a lot of the kids are paid I think they do a good job - though many of them would find it utterly impossible to get a job that paid for a roof over their head, food, AND three or four half days skiing a week AND a bit of beer money, back in the UK. My son, working at a far higher skill level and being very well paid, got to take home all his money (less a train fare back to Italy). In the UK he'd have been paying rent or mortgage, council tax, utility bills, food etc. out of that salary. Probably a lot of youngsters in chalets have never had to live off what they can earn and don't know that money doesn't go very far - they will often have been living in the Mummy and Daddy Hotel rent-free in the holidays, in blissful ignorance, getting to save the money they earn on vacation jobs. £60 a week "pocket money" on top of all your living expenses AND a ski pass really isn't such a duff deal for people with no dependents to look after (whereas the Eastern European hospitality staff working in places like London are probably supporting a family).
I like catered chalets - and self catering. I'm not so keen on hotels. Having stopped skiing after my lesson today, because vis up the mountain is absolutely terrible, it will cost me €3 for a pot of tea when I sit and read my book by the fire this afternoon and another couple of euros for a bit of cake. Unlimited "chalet tea" is a very welcome institution, especially if you have kids who are starving after skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ....Unlimited "chalet tea" is a very welcome institution, especially if you have kids who are starving after skiing. |
That'll be the unlimited chalet tea that's all gone by the time a serious skier has skied down?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
That'll be the unlimited chalet tea that's all gone by the time a serious skier has skied down?
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yep, probably. Though when I've stayed in the Melezes in Tignes, the only "chalet style" place I've done for a while, there's been more than enough for everyone.
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pam w, I completely agree with you. When my wife and I did our season we got paid £60 per week, regularly got tips of 80-160 euros per week, our accommodation was paid for, season ski pass, insurance for the enttire season, ski and boot hire (if required), and all food (unless eating out). When you total that up the deal is actually pretty good.
Yes it's REALLY hard work and you have to put up with some awful guests, but by early Feb you get into a great routine. I was skiing at least 4 hrs every day except transfer day. We had one day off a week. There were lots of people that quit in early Jan but for those who stuck it out there was a real sense of togetherness and we made some friends for life.
One thing I will say is that we took career breaks at the ages of 30 & 31 to do the season and felt that being slightly older probably helped us put everything into perspective during tough times. As my wife says to people when recollecting the experience "most days my biggest dilemma was deciding what cake to bake".
Some advise to karin, let your kids get on with it, don't interfere. It's an amazing life lesson and at the end of it I can guarantee they will look back with the fondest of memories and laugh about the difficult times.
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| Quote: |
pam w wrote:
....Unlimited "chalet tea" is a very welcome institution, especially if you have kids who are starving after skiing.
That'll be the unlimited chalet tea that's all gone by the time a serious skier has skied down?
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You must stay in really crap chalets! 
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stevomcd, .....or just be really really slow at skiing down
...ducks.
Actually I've experienced it with some TO places, if you're not there and your place happens to be where a lot of the staff reside, at the appointed time the leftovers disappear down the gullet of various staff and hangers on. Fine when it was standard yoghurt cake. Not so fine the day when the lazy chalet bint decided to splash food budget at the patisserie.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skichampcouk wrote: |
Our son and his girlfriend are out working with Esprit this season and we have hardly heard from him (only when he wants something) which I think is a good sign.
They have a good room right next to the slopes, on some work days they can manage up to 4 hours skiing a day and they also have a full 24 hours off to do whatever they want.
They are provided with all their food, ski equipment for the season, a full area lift pass and I know he isn't finding it too stressful.
They have had a few minor gripes, he was also asked to rep for Inghams on transfer day on one of his first weeks and thought he would be shown what to do but was just left to get on with it. I understand the training weeks were a bit stressful but they seem to have settled into it now.
karin, I think the relatively minor problems your son and girlfriend are facing are par for the course for seasonal work, it could be you haven't heard from them recently because they have sorted out their problems and that they are having a good time. |
I worked for Esprit for a season and I would largely echo skichampcouk's statement. Some things were a bit hit and miss, but generally they were a good company to work for. This sounds a bit gloomy, but overall fairly par for the course based on mine and my friends experience at other English TOs/resorts.
As someone mentioned above, the first few weeks of the season can be very tough (particularly those just out of secondary school or uni) and there were A LOT of dropouts in the first few weeks. I nearly had a breakdown on Christmas day in the kitchen...
Assuming they get some of the issues listed fixed I wouldn't worry too much.
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The work levels are nothing out of the ordinary for the first few weeks of the season, certainly by march/april time they'll be working a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening at most so it all balances out.
The equipment and uniform stuff isn't ideal and is an indication of poor management at both resort and area manager level. If it's that bad the guests should have commented on it on the questionnaires (and if they're smart get the guests on their side to comment something like great staff, poo-poo equipment), the area manager picked it up and got onto the RM about it. Either that or the RM is hiding it from the AM which is even worse. As mentioned above it sounds like they need to have strong words with their RM and if necessary head office staff until it gets resolved.
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FAQ
