Skiing with little kids - suggestions?

A snowHead

Hi

We are going for our first "proper" family ski holiday this coming winter, and would be grateful for some advice on:
- resorts
- hotels/chalets/tour operators (we don't usually go with these - confirmed DIYers - but would consider if it was reasonably priced and made life easier than DIY)
- childcare/nanny facilities
- ski schools were good English is spoken

We will probably be going late Feb to mid-March, as we are not tied to school hols yet, and I think slightly later is a bit better due to it being a bit warmer. Don't want to risk going too late though.

We are:
1) me, decent snowboarder (7 years @ average 2 trips per year, always taking lessons; can get down most anything and enjoy easy off-piste) and also beginner skier (3 days, just coming out of snowplough turns);
2) wife, can board a bit but switched to skiing in 2010. Due to the arrival of Daughter2.0 in Feb this year, she has not skied since early 2011;
3) Daughter1.0, will be 3yrs 10 months. Plan is to get her on skis (she is "averagely athletic", not too timid but also doesn't really like falling too much.)
4) Daughter2.0, will be 1 year old. Good creche/nanny/childcare a must (we used Club Piou Piou in Les Menuires at a similar age with D1, and thought it worked out fine).

We may have a couple of friends coming along, but we don't necessarily need to share e.g. an apartment with them. One is a pretty OK skier (3 weeks and have started skiing reds and even attempted a black), the other is timid (she has a fear of heights) and will likely want a private instructor.

We would prefer Austria, for 3 reasons: in my experience you get a bit more for the money than in France, resorts are a bit lower so sleeping at night is better for little ones, and the friends (if they come along) have never been anywhere but Tignes and 3V and a different experience might be good for them. Next on the list would be Italy, then France, then Switzerland (I like CH a lot but with the strong CHF it's too expensive at the moment), then Andorra and Bulgaria.

Are Kinderhotels worth it (looks like it can be quite expensive)? Which UK based operators would you recommend? Esprit/Mark Warner/Crystal/anything else - being good for kids are most important. Having something like a heated pool and some kiddie activities would be really good.

So, any help greatly appreciated - the more specific the better.

A snowHead

Have a look at Kappl or Serfaus/Fiss/Ladis.

I've not been to Serfaus but has a great rep for family skiing.

Have taken the family twice to Kappl in the last few years. My lot are certainly older but I had wished I discovered it earlier on. They have a big creche facility mid mountain which means you can check on both your kids (should you feel the need). Do not be put off by the 45km of skiing - the skiing is very good with black, red and blue options from teh main chairs - which is great for a mixed group. Nice fun park too. Ischgl just up the road. The Hotel Auhof would be best situated for you. I stayed at the Gasthof Alpenfrieden last time round which was excellent - right on piste etc but that won't suit you in this isntance due to the age of your kids. The Auhof is also at the end of the piste but importantly for you, is beside the gondola station. http://www.kappl.com/index-winter.en.htm
Innsbruck only an hour away

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I heartily recommend Serfaus. http://www.serfaus-fiss-ladis.com/ They are profiling themselves especially as a family-friendly resort and, indeed, the place is full of hotels and restaurants with special arrangements for kids, such as playrooms. English ski lessons are of course available for kids, and I think the creche also offers services in English. The village is very nice and the village underground ensures you can get to the main lifts with very little walking. Leave your skis and boots at the depot by the lifts and you won't have to carry your gear.

We lived at the Darrehof, which was wonderful! Very central, warm and welcoming. The kids loved the play room and swimming pool. I loved the breakfast buffet with local cheeses and cold cuts.There are hotels for all budgets, so you can splash out or go on a budget.

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I can personally recommend Esprit. We wen with them to Courchevel staying in Crystal 2000, in dec 2010, with our 1yr old and 4yr old (at the.time). They were in my book fantastic, right from landing in Chambery once we had our bags they helped us with the baggage to the coach ( a god send with 1 non walking child and another young child), all the way through the holiday. When we got to the hotel they unloaded all the bags for us amd took them upto the rooms for us, there was cakes, hot soups, coffee, tea and squash waiting for us on our arrival, extremely welcome after all the travelling. My eldest loved spritelets and ski club and my youngest was happy in nursery. All though the week the staff were great with the kids even when they carried huge soup pans of hot water up to the room for the time we requested when the hot water failed, that is when in my book how good a company really is, is demonstrated in how they react when something goes wrong and I couldnt fault them.

We are going with them again mext April to Pepi gabl in St Anton.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

boardiac, +1 for Esprit.

booked to go on our 3rd trip with them this season coming.

if you do a forum search for Esprit, you'll get loads of feedback. Book early to save £££s. or, leave it late to save more but take the risk of not getting where you want to go.

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boardiac, Agree with boabski, that Kappl is a great place for families though you would have to DIY and if you leave it late in the season you need to remember that it is predominantly south facing and can get a bit affected by the sun.

Also check out the Zauchensee thread ( About two posts down at the time of writing)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Ski famille are also worth a look, and I think they have branched out into Austria this season

After all it is free

boardiac, another + 1 for Esprit

Used them 3 times (albeit 7 and 8 years ago) in La Rosiere at different chalets. All were very good, food fine, childcare/nannying excellent.

The kids area where they learned (enclosed and safe) was within a minutes walk. Esprit coordinate all this and will come and pick up children in the morning. The indoors activities were all run well - my daughter (started at just under 4) had to be crow-barred out on many evenings.

St Anton and Obergurgl are the Austrian resorts Esprit go to.

boardiac, somewhere other than France a good choice if you go late Feb/early March which is peak French school hols.

As for accommodation, it'd be good to be somewhere where you can have a sociable adult evening whilst kids are asleep - but within easy reach. A catered chalet would be my choice, with somewhere you can hang out during the day with the kids if they are unwell or the weather is too nasty to have them outside. I like self-catering, but not ideal with little kids if you have to stay in the apartment on your own in the evening.

Finally - don't expect to get too much skiing yourselves, look upon it as a family holiday in the snow, with building snowmen, toboganning (1 year olds can love toboganning) and some skiing (or boarding) in the margins. And don't expect your 3 year old to be happy to skip off to ski school on her own for hours each day - some do, but they seem to be other people's children. My daughter was just about OK at 4, on a two week holiday when she'd watched for the first week - she'd have thrown a wobbly if we'd chucked her into ski school first thing. Your goal is to get the family to enjoy it so much that it's their top choice of holiday for the next fifteen years!

Check ages - some ski schools don't take 3 year olds.

My top tip for families who can't afford Esprit-style prices is to take grandma. wink

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Ski Esprit for me too!! Did 8 holidays in total with 3 children. Started when 2 were skiing (Spritelets) and moved on to all three before they eventually got strong enough to ski all day with us. Now back on DiY. Real plus is the full day childcare with a mixture of skiing, snow-club and supervised meals. 08.30-18.30 unimpeeded, after all its Mums holiday too! Not cheap but well worth it.

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Esprit or perhaps Mark Warner

If you aren't tied to shool holidays then what about th elast 2 weeks n Arpil in Val D'Isere- when we went (twice with kids) it was less for 2 weeks then than 1 week Feb half ten- and good weather for the kids to learn in- ie not freezing.

Lots of posts about this if you search.

We have been with Esprit a lot (Chamonix 3 times, Les ARcs / Peisey twice, Le Rossiere once, and Sass Fee in summer twice) very good because they only do families (cf Mark Warner / Crystal / just about everyone else).

Also If you gross less than £200k a year then you might like to think about Andorra (cheap, cheerful, lots of English instructors, food vastly better than I expected, but no social cachet at all).

snow reports

boardiac,

Austria do kids extremely well. When ours were too small to ski they went into the hotel creche, now (5 & 7) they are very happy in the all day ski school. Lunch is chips and cartoons, so perfect for all ages/nationalities.

One thing I would say is that the first time the mushette skied she was only just 4. That was a bit too young for her to try proper skiing. She didn't keep up with the 5,6,7 year olds and didn't really enjoy it. The next trip she and junior were separated and she stayed with the younger kids in the snow park thing. Her skiing came on in leaps and bounds and she loved it.

Went to kaprun with esprit 2 years in a row and was good, however the setup meant if you wanted to skiin afternoon with kids you had to go back to chalet to pick up kids and their skis for lunch

You know it makes sense.

Wow! Very helpful advice as always - thanks!

So, had a bit of look around Esprit and Mark Warner websites, and a week in early-mid March is coming in at around £3200 (that is once you've added creche, lift passes, £300 worth of lessons for Mrs B and D1.0) - and that excludes meals on the hill, drinks, shopping, etc. Whilst I am on a decent salary, it's not quite £200k (!!) so I am wondering...

is that about "par for the course" for a family of 4? There does seem to be a pretty big advantage (convenience) in going with an operator whilst the kids are little, but it seems like a heck of a lot more than a DIY trip. Or am I deluded in thinking that it might be possible to get something comparable for less going DIY?

£500 for childcare is a bit more than we would have wanted to spend, because we want to spend time with the little ones while we are there - so don't really need childcare 10hrs/day for 6 days - but wife and I also want to be able to ski/board together so SOME childcare (at least morning) would be necessary. How do other people solve this problem (granny unfortunately not an option).

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

boardiac,

I have similar aged kids and face similar issues. We went with Esprit last year and I was dreading it. Our 1 year old was ok in the creche, however we skiied in the mornings and took him out of nursery after lunch. Its still necesary to pay for full days though. Daughter was 6 and went in spritelets a.m. and the supervised lunch. She had to be prised out of the club in the afternoon, plus she advanced on the slopes tremendously.
All in all it was a great success. I think if you have little children its worth the £3200 cost although it does seem a lot for childcare. What price is peace of mind and being able to enjoy your board time?
We have booked again on recomendation from the Esprit chalet hosts for La Rosiere.

Cheers

A snowHead

Wish i could recommend you a cheaper altrnative, but we are also firmly in the Espirit camp. Off to St.Anton in January with sideways jnrs (3 and 1.5 by then) Our third trip with them can't fault what they do, especially for the kids.

A snowHead

boardiac, last two times we've done

1) Ski Magic in La Tania in Jan when he was 27 months or so, which was great - childcare inclusive budget chalet deal! The nannies were great. 5 all-days, with a day off for the nannies. Took him to the magic carpet at the top of the gondola
2) Staying in a really budget chalet in Tignes in March (I won't say who with, cos it was rubbish, but it's not relevant), and sticking our by-now just 30 month old in the Marmottons ski school (2.5 is their minimum age) for 6 half days (including lunch). Then bunking off for the rest of the day, taking him for gondola rides etc. I literally cannot speak highly enough of Marmottons. They were genuinely amazing.

Both worked out brilliantly, and for a fair bit less than the sort of prices you're on about!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

boardiac, prior to our trip with Esprit, the first time we went skiing with children was when we had 1, 17month old and we hired a 3 bed apartment in Le Grand Bornand and took my Sister in law (she offered!), I paid for the apartment and the trasnfer she paid for her flight ticket, and her snowboard hire and lessons. It was her very first time and we took it in turn. The second time we went with my parents to Bansko, Bulgaria with our then 2yr old and we took it in turns to look after Ellie, that would have worked better if it wasn't new year and we didn't have to contend with the massive lift queues to get up the gondola making swapping over half way through the day. One issue we found with the DIY self catering option was that the only way we could eat on evenings at a time sensible for our daughter was to cook and eat in as the restaurants didn't start serving food until later.

However I honestly believe that my children enjoyed the Esprit holiday more, as much because they had other children to play with and they had a lot more toys and stuff to play with there, and we had a much better holiday as on evenings we would put the girls to bed at their normal time, sign them into the listening service on the floor, then go down for a nice meal with a bit of wine and enjoy some adult company. So I didn't end up still having to do the shopping, cooking and clearing up after every meal as I do at home, which I may be unpopular for saying this but that does make it less of a holiday for me.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Chasseur,

I suspect you may be further through your mortgage payments than many snowHead

s with young kids Smile

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Chassueur is right. I tried to make this work any which way I could and simply could not under cut the Espirt Deal despite my best attempts. Also once you get the hang of Esprit, booking early opens up lots of options for 'free' child places or lift passes etc. The ski in/ski out option is always much easier, particularly if you choose to collect the little darlings at lunchtime. I would also recommend their "Chalet/Hotels over apartments. They usually have the Nursery or Snow Club on-site and give everyone just a little more room. I would also bare in mind that they don't get a great deal out of skiing much before starting school when their attention span improves! Mine always enjoyed the 'Snow Club' sledging, snowmen and other activities more until they were 5.

Light at the end of the tunnel? After moving to the Alps (kids at 6,7, and Cool

, and when we finally had children who didn't mind a bus ride to the lift carrying their own skis, we bought a Campervan. We had fantastic trips, especially to St Anton and the Dolomites. Even then though, with camp fees and lift passes for 5 you're still hitting around 2.5k all in.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

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boardiac, Chasseur, skiing with a young family is very different to skiing as a couple or singleton.

Cost- masses more especially if there is only one income. Sure £800 / wk for one is fine. But do the maths for 5.

Time skiing / doing ski holiday stuff(pares) with kids - massivley reduced.

To go skiing with young kids either - you need to really like skiing and try not to think about the cost (me)

Or you earn a lot of money and the cost isn't an issue.

Have alook at Andorra

I'll be back shortly with links to some previous posts.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Andorra

Having just accidently spent a week in Arinsal Andorra (please stop it what ever it is you are going to say) I am sure the unless a family grosses over £200k a year then they would be bonkers not to go to Andorra to learn how to ski.

Why?

1. Decent value
2. Food great value (very nice buffet - 5 courses including a drink- €15, burger chips and a drink €9, kids meal incl drink and dessert €6.50) oh and nice Spanish food served by nice Andorran people rather than nasty French slop thrown at you with a Tignes (worse Serre Chevalier) thud.
3. Lift passes cheap - one adult and 2 children passes £150 for 1 week includes all Vallnord
4. Friendly, child friendly resort staff (random helpfulness to kids, stickers, tissues, carrying skis, getting on and off lifts)
5. Tuition- lots of native English speaking instructors- 5 mornings instruction €98
6. Piste area- fine for beginners / families

For the more adventurous- Arcalis must have some of the best (not hardest // gnarliest/ bad boy stuff- just some of the most varied and untracked reasonably steep and snowy and decent drop) lift accessed, accessible terrain anywhere - really.

Why not?
1. No social cachet at all (or is this a why??)
2. Smoking indoors - but less so than Switzerland
3. Longish transfer (take LOTR on DVD) less than VDI

snow reports

MARK WARNER vs ESPRIT
hello ,we have used both . About 7 weeks with MW 3x 2 weeks in Val, both at the Val d'Isere and Cygnaski and a week in Tignes, and various Esprit; Chamonix, les Arcs, Peisey, Le Rossiere and summer in Sass Fee.

Various differences

CHILDREN/Childcare

All Esprit holidays have childcare- all the guests will have kids with them (just possible a few last minutes without but unlikely). Not all MW places take kids and those that do are just as likely to have more guests without children as those that do. So a little difference with the dynamics. At most MW places we have stayed there were some guests who quite obviously objected to kids in general.

Childcare very similar, although my children particularly enjoy the communal singing with Esprit and gunging- not a feature of MW at all. Childcare with MW not obviously different to me, although Esprit , having more children has a better 'vibe'.

Prices for childcare broken down a bit more in Esprit as far as I can remember.

PRICE

Mark Warner a little more expensive.

STAFF

Most MW chalet / managerial /hotel staff very nicely spoken, public school, etc

Levels of service just the same with the exception of MW staff carrying bags to rooms (although I think Esprit have done this at least once)

Chalets/Chalet Hotels

Both highly variable. MW 'Hotel Val D'Isere' one of if not the most expensive MW hotel is really quite run down and tired- it has a pool though.
Esprit 'Hotel Sapiniere' in Cham likewise- and we had no hot water for a week.

Esprit Chalets in Peisey however- amazing- large, luxurious, hot tubs (but a bit icky and could have done with a clean) large screen TVs- big rooms really good.

FOOD
Chalet hotels always better than Chalets (professional chefs in professional kitchen vs students on gap year in a tiny kitchen)
Best food ever in Sapiniere in Chamonix- the chef had worked at the Ivy

SICKNESS

We have often had D&V at MW places in Val- unless we didn't drink tap water and stayed out of the pool. Likewise lots of other guests. Think this is a VdI thing.

Ski Hosting
Much better with MW- good ski hosts with at least 1 group that goes fast.

I think out kids enjoy Esprit more. We ski a lot with kids and haven't been with MW for years- but MW does have one particular gem- the last 2 weeks of April in Val D'Isere are very good value- for adults 2 weeks for 2/3rds the price of 1 week Feb half term. If you have preschool kids then this is really good.

GENERAL MUSING ABOUT SKIING WITH KIDS
SarahAKH, hi welcome to snowheads.

YES YOU CAN!

can't say anything about Stuben but can comment about ski holidays with kids. We now have 3 boys- 7, 5 and 5 months. We have skied quite a bit- between 1 and 3 weeks per year since the first came along and have tried most options- I think 17+ weeks worth of family ski holiday so far.

There are a lot of options and variables- but not just about where/when/how you go- but also you and your family.

HOLIDAYS

1. fully independent-self arranged holiday- no additional childcare- take turns - each ski half a day- look after kids the rest- we have never done this (it is madness)- many do nothing else I can't comment about this but wouldn't suit.

2. Independent- take relative to look after kids. Pros- possibly cheapest option- total choice. Various cons. Not least is possible lack of little friends for kids- which is what will make them happy- or rather makes my kids happy. Can be a nerve wracking experience. Did this once- first time and never again. Grand parents often have strong views on creches.

3. Go with a group of friends with children- independent. A great option for us. We regularly go to an owner run chalet in Peisey (Chalet Himalaya it is lovely- ) with assorted children- who organise themselves and play, go to ski school together/ have fun play uno etc etc. Care of younger children varies between parents. We have shared childcare with other parents and also hired an English nanny though a local British run agency, can also use local creches but we have not done that. This option works best if children go to ski school in the morning and then ski with adults pm. But to do that they need to be able to use lifts, ski blue runs at least.

4. General Tour operator with childcare- ie not everyone has kids with them, eg Mark Warner, Crystal etc. OK pros- adult company, standard ski tour operator stuff if you like that sort of thing. Childcare usually good with crech etc. Cons- some of the other guests may not have worked out that their pensions will be paid by our kids and are a bit arsey about children.

5. Specialist Tour Operator- ie all holidays have childcare either as an add on in every hotel/chalet or included in the price. Expensive but very good. Our children like as many other kids to be around as possible- for ski school, lunch, tea, general monkeying about. We have done this both as a whole family and also just me (dad) and the oldest boy- so far second child has not been old enough to do this- but may next year (unless Mrs Ed comes as well).

CHILDREN

There are a few things to think about.

1. The youngest is 2. THis means no skiing and creche (unless one of you stays in ). My wife perhaps unusually was still breast feeding our older boys till 2 and I am sure she will fed the next one a little till the same age. If you are then the exact layout of pistes/lifts and your hotel/chalet/creche is crucial. Some places are easy (Le Rossiere, Peisey and one hotel in Argentiere) some are a total Fitzwilliam (all of the rest of the Chamonix valley) others are just a pain (Val d'Isere). I suspect feeding is not a big issue for most - it should be mind. So - creche- our children were ok in creche and we were happy with all the TO creches we went to (Crystal, Mark WArner and Esprit). THey had all been either to a nursery or child minder in the UK before- some children are very distressed by creche and this can be a deal breaker. The 2 year old may feel a little left out - but thats life.

2. 4 year old- I am guessing your first ski holiday- so s/he can't ski. Will need to go to a ski garden/ marmottons type place. Is the child continent? This is a deal breaker. Can they go to the loo unaided? Will they take instructions in a group of strange kids from a strange man with a funny accent? How is their general coordination?

3. 6 year old- no real issues.

ADULTS

1. Cost- skiing with kids is very expensive. Peak weeks, lots of extra costs, new clothes, ski school etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Really it is eye watering.

2. Can you cope with doing lots less skiing than normal? You will be forking out shed loads of money to go skiing- so you probably really like skiing- but you will not be able to do as much skiing as normal. You will not be out every day at 8.30- you will be back in good time to pick the kids up from creche (in Chamonix this might mean a taxi from Argentiere to Cham - €lots rather than the bus- free). THis can be stressful for skiing dads especially if they really want to go out early to ski off piste- but have to help get three kids in ski gear and off to ski school. Some couples don't cope with this well- typically with the bloke clearing off leaving a seething wife- to be repaid with interest later.

3. Do you really like skiing? If you are a bit not sure then you might have some problems. Firstly with the cost, then with 'going on holiday and putting the kids in childcare'.

4. Can you leave your kids to it? In creche- when they cry a bit. But also in ski school. Some parents hang around the ski gardens very anxiously - generally the ski instructors hate this.

5. Will your husband wearing ski boots and across icy paths carry 4 sets of skis several hundred meters ( after a night on beer) and still love you?

If think you can answer all these questions then yes- you can go on a family ski holiday with a 2, 4 and 6 year old and all have a good time

oh yes one other thing- take a lot of boys underpants-

and another- after consultation with domestic control

continence- not absolutely essential if a 4 yr old can be persuaded about the concept of the 'ski nappy' not a normal nappy at all- only worn for skiing- additional evidence found in any book about space- most have an illustration of astronauts underpants/nappies. Alternatively take 2 sets of ski clothes and embrace the concept of a 'hot leg'

of course like most things 'continence' is a bit of a spectrum (see Spud in Trainspotting) an otherwise pretty continent on most days 4yr old may well find the arctic climes of the Tignes le Lac ski garden in January too much to bear and have a crafty wee wee down his leg a couple of minutes after coming out of the little hut having had a drink of juice- actually- an otherwise pretty continent on most days 4yr old will find the arctic climes of the Tignes le Lac ski garden in January too much to bear and will have a crafty wee wee down his leg a couple of minutes after coming out of the little hut having had a drink of juice- so a clean dry suit is quite useful, you have to go with the flow so to speak. If with a TO a 'ski nappy' might result in problems. I find it very difficult to discourage this sort of behaviour and the ability to 'hot leg' is a much under-rated and neglected life skill- if I had my way there would be a diploma in it equivalent to 3 A levels.

You know it makes sense.

Esprit 3 times for me . Very basic food and board as you are being looked after by teenagers with limited cooking skills but child care is outstanding so more than makes up for it. Went when kids were 1 and 3, then 5 & 3 and finally 5 and 7.

I love my boarding but could not enjoy it if I'm simply sticking kids in a creche, what is the point of a family holiday if you stick the kids in a school all day and bug off to have fun. With esprit you do not feel that at all, you come back at lunch time and the kids are off sledging and don't want you to take them out of the club.

Just my opinion but I always go for a chalet and not a hotel (esprit and warner have loads of chalet hotels but esprit still have quite a few smaller chalets). This is because my kids are bad at going to bed, the thought of them running riot 5 floors above me during dinner is not an option, in fact it would make the holiday impossible. In a chalet they still come out for an hour or so every night but at least they don't bother anyone and are on the same floor.

Some friends decided this year that esprit was a bit too sub standard for them now so they went with ski vip. Had a great chalet but only child care option was a nanny who would only look after the kids in the chalet, for me there is no way I would leave my kids cooped up all day in a chalet whilst I go out having fun. They came back and said they did no skiing because they took kids to lessons in the morning, then spent 1 hour on the slope before picking them up and then spent the afternoon entertaining kids in the resort. If they were older they could go skiing with their kids all day but the really young ones can not cope with a full day. I could leave my youngest with a nanny in the afternoon and take the oldest out with me but my daughter would be distraught at being left out so i know we would all end up sitting in the chalet or doing something else. We took them out with us two afternoons and my little girl just kept crying and getting upset at everything. When i suggested she went swimming and i took my son she kicked off as she wants to go, she just couldn't cope with a full day. That may work for some but for me i couldn't bear spending my ski week sitting in a swimming pool, a restaurant or walking about.... what a waste, there are far more appropriate holidays like disney or something if you want to do that.

Everybody is different but for me a holiday is for the whole family not just me and esprit allows that to happen. Do not be fooled by the dozens of companies advertising child care, it is often just a nanny who will baby sit in your chalet.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Ahh I now get what you were annoyed at! I thought you were annoyed at me saying every now and then I need a break as well. I don't say I don't get periodIcally annoyed by it like Sunday I turned round and said we WERE going out for lunch as I was NOT cooking and clearing it all up afterwards yet again.....

A snowHead

generally, in my family, anyone who had cooked a meal would sit down afterwards whilst somebody else cleared up. I'm afraid my tolerance of anyone expecting me to do the lot would be nil. I wouldn't insist we went out, though - that costs lots of dosh. Not sure what I'd do. Probably just go and sit down with a book and a cheese sandwich!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There is some very good practical advice here. Does anyone have experience of Esprit (rather than MW) in Val d'Isere?

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boardiac, we were in val d'isere with them last year and are going back this year.

TR from last years trip here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2013745

Sums it up in the thread, but i'll re-iterate that the hotel is basic, and surrounded by much more luxurious accommodation, but the location is ok and not too far from the pistes and you can use the fee bus to get around anyway, included directly outside the hotel to the base of all of the slopes in Val, Fornet and La Daille.

We had a great experience, despite me getting a pretty bad back injury.

Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If you want to DIY it then can definitely recommend Serfaus - worth a search on here for trip reports from last season. We were helped by my in-laws so didn't make use of the creche/ski schools but spoke to a few who did who were very happy and saw the ski schools in action on the nursery slope and it looked very good. The set-up of the village is with families in mind. There is a nursery slope right in the heart of the village (that never got that busy) and there are further nursery/kids slopes further up the mountains. There is plenty of variety of skiing for all preferences and abilities.

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I'll +1 for Esprit. Used them since they were a smaller independent company. Never been able to fault them even as they became part of the larger company. This year was the first time we didn't go with them and finally had the kids skiing with us all day. After the first couple of times I just went last minute (or rather last month or so) with them. I've always been able to get a good deal and more importantly a decent place. This is with being stuck with Easter holidays. Out of the normal school breaks I would say you have a good chance of getting a deal. But you always have to factor in c'est la vie if it doesn't come off. Being able to have your ski holiday when they are little is worth a lot and they love the afternoon club. You can always take them out whenever you want anyway.

boardiac - Went to Val with Esprit at Easter 2011. Had a great time. We moved more towards the Chalet Hotels with Esprit as time went on as you get more of a meal choice and the older the kids are the more chance they had of finding someone to hook up with. The Ducs de Savoie was a nice place. Slightly small bar area would be the main issue if loads want to be in there. The rooms seemed pretty decent not that posh but comfortable. It's set back from the road so the views might not be a great thing depending on room. So it is a slight walk to the lifts or you can catch a bus. Would have gone back this year had there been space. My daughter did ski club in the am and had a good time. We used to ski the am and then pick her up and go off again. Food was excellent.

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We did Les Gets twice last year with our 16 month old and 3 1/4 year old. The resort was perfect for us, we didn't do the full days we were used to but still got in a decent amount of skiing (6ish hours a day) and a lot of fun. Les Gets is a nice resort to get around, the ESF ski school is next to the bottom lift, although there is traffic it's got the feel of a 'proper' alpine resort, at least it did to us.

The first time we went fully catered with a nanny who took the older one to ski school and picked him 2 days before arrival) up for lunch whilst entertaining the smaller one. Having found an amazing last minute deal (booked on the chalet that cost us about 2500E incl passes & lessons etc. Had the chalet been normal price it would have been closer to 4000E

The second time we went self catering, got lots of takeaway and microwaveable meals from the supermarket. The smaller went into the creche and the older was in the ski school/childcare option. We had a nice 2 bedroomed apartment in the centre of the old village for 400E a week, childcare for both kids and lessons for the older added about 600E onto that. My MIL also came with us which meant we could pop out in the evening but if you don't have this option there are cards in the village with babysitters details on them.

I personally found the self catering option the best as we weren't having to work around other people in the chalet. To be fair we live in Switzerland so can do last minute things and don't need to worry about luggage allowance but doing a cost comparison on Ski Famille/Esprit etc DIY was a lot cheaper. Neither were stressful and neither felt like we were

Club Piou Piou were good with the older one, at the end of the two weeks he could parallel turn. They're not very 'softly softly', after spending the first day screaming through the lesson he got told that he was not being a fun child to be around and that he needed to be quiet and start trying things. When the instructor told me that my heart broke a bit but then he barrelled into my arms telling me how much he loved skiing so I don't think it scarred him too much.....

We'll be back next season.

After all it is free

Take the grand-parents and go to a smaller, cheaper French resort like Valmorel where the ski school will be great for the elder child and classes are afternoons, guaranteeing a leisurely start to each day. Drive down in 2 cars in convoy (unless you have a 7 seater), so the kids don't get bored of one car, stay nearly half way down(or home) in Troyes or nearby in an Etap or Formula 1 and have a good family feed in Casino ....book a big apartment from Pierre et Vacances or France Location and enjoy a village which is pretty, functional and will let the old un's have enough space to have a good walk, nice lunch, coffee and allows pedestrian lift access to the mountain and has enough skiing for a happy hassle free holiday without having the lining of your wallet ripped apart by child care and the exhorbitant cost that Warners can be. Book your ski hire direct and sit back and share the chores.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

When our kids were young we spent some good skiing in Puy St Vincent. There is only one ski company that really does it - Snowbizz. They are excellent. They provide Nannys if the kids are really young and their crèche is excellent. Ski school is run by Snowbizz (English company) and is very child friendly. Because it is family oriented your daughters will find a lot of friends to learn with.

We noticed that families like yours would have the youngest in crèche all day (apart from lunch). Children that were learning to ski spent the morning in ski school, and the afternoon with the parents. That meant the youngest got more attention in the evening as their siblings were worn out. Also meant parents got some good ski time and could relax.

The resort is small (75km piste) so is really focused on learners. Ski school for adults was good as well. If you are looking for a challenge, they also run a coach to Serre Chevalier for some variety.

They fly into Turin so transfer is about 2.5 hours, but when we went, the kids had videos on the coach!

When the kids are happy to ski on their own, the pistes all converge on one spot - the bar at 1600m so it's ideal when you need a rest.

The most important thing was price - they are very reasonable. Just looked at their prices and Crèche is £45 per day.

Help!!

Skiing with little kids - suggestions?

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