 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello
I would like to have an avalanche Airbag, and I would like to know- First how is it working in flights (I am living in Israel and usualy I'm flying to Europe), second I'm doing snowboarding, and I would like a large bag, I thought about "SNOWPULSE GUIDE 30L AVALANCHE AIRBAG". Also I would like to know what is the best way to buy it- on the shop or buying on the net, it seems that there is a big different in the price.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I bought mine over the net, from http://www.snowsafe.co.uk/
I went for the ABS Vario as you are fine flying in Europe with the system, the pack is a zip on which means I can use an ultralight 18 litre sac for general use, and have a 25lt one for longer off piste and touring days. I found the 18 lt sac lets me take shovel, probe, duvet jacket, food, little bits of equipment, spare hat and gloves and still be able to wear it on lifts. I ended up sending the first one back as it was too long in the back for me, I ended up with a small size which fitted more snugly. The carbon cylinder was worth the extra as it is just over half the weight of the steel. Never had a problem flying with it, but if you are looking to go to the States you may need to buy a new one there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks "Avalanche Poodle" to the details answer, may you know what is the reason that there difference between europe to the states ?
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yariv_har, The release mechanism for the bag is an explosive charge, so airlines have traditionally been a bit touchy about letting you on the plane with that! The Americans evidently more so than the Europeans. The solution is to hire the bottle and release handles over in America instead of taking them with you.
I also have an ABS system, albeit an older one without the vario system. Very happy with it, although I have never had to use it in anger ( or fear as the case may be ).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yup, also the cylinder being a sealed nitrogen filled unit can cause problems in the States. Europe, no issues, just let the airline know you are carrying it when or just after you book. They see loads of them these days and are not interested. With some other systems that rely on compressed air you can empty the cylinder and recharge it at the resort. There is a lot of info here too... http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=72233
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Steilhang, I had a small localised slide on a bash and had my hand gripping the handle before I even hit the deck. I held off pulling it as I had seen that the crack only went for about 30 feet in front of me and the small slide stopped after carrying me for 10 - 15 feet. They may not do a great deal if you get caught in a terrain trap though so safe route finding is still the most important thing you can do.
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Avalanche Poodle, absolutely. I have just been fortunate enough so far to not actually get caught, although I have had a number of close calls, with two of them being full size slides while I was on-piste, one in St.Anton and one in Kleinwalsertal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Steilhang, As I learn more and get more paranoid about slopes I have found that these times get rarer. Last year I skied 8 weeks and never even saw a slide, I had been hit 3 times in 3 years (4 weeks per year) prior to that.
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yariv_har, I have the ABS vario from last season, sorry can't help on the flying issue as I've never done this. Personally however I am totally unimpressed with the pack itself and wouldn't recommend it; the main strap loosens when sking meaning you have to constantly tighten after a run if you want a snug fit, the ski carry system is pretty poor compared to my Ortovox freerider pack, and the internals of the vario 25L bag are of a pretty poor design IMHO.
Had a look around ISPO last year and by far the best designs out there were the Ortovox ABS, wish I had waited a year and bought these but ho-hum 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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the_doc, Strange, I've never had the main strap come lose on mine. Yeah, the sacks are not as good as the after market versions brought out by other manufacturers. I like the simplicity of the 18lt ultralight sack though, if I hadn't have had a discount voucher I wouldn't have bought the 25lt (it only cost me £20), I'd probably have gone for the Dakine version https://www.abs-airbag.com/en/compatible-partners.html
But although I haven't handled one, I'd definitely check out the Ortovox packs, they look superb. I still like the ability to swap pack sizes though depending on activity. The small pack is fine for riding chair lifts without taking it off (IMHO all of the reported accidents with backpacks catching on lifts are because of people riding with loose buckles hanging down on straps. The only time I've ever caught one is when the pack has been taken off).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the_doc, eh? Don't agree at all. I have Same ABS Vario, really impressed and never have same problems......brilliant new leg strap system (red loop over buckle) really impressed. Must admit the Ortovox ones do look trick though, 2 quality companies (ABS/Ortovox) working well together and further reinforcing that the system is a market leader IMO.
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Agree withMarkymark29 and Avalanche Poodle, I have one of the original varios circa 2006. My strap does not loosen. Also after six seasons I can attest to this bags quality and durability.
I would recommend buying in a shop so you can get the optimal fit. Even though I am 182cm I found the small bag (base unit) most comfortable. I have the 18l for my daily use and 40l for touring. The 18l is small enough to use on chairlifts without having to take it off.
Having just plugged the abs system conceptually I think that snowpulse system that raps round torso, neck and head thus protecting them is better. At the time when I was buying they were just starting out so went with the market leader and if I were buying today I would still go with abs, but with time I will probably switch to snowpulse.
Flying in Europe is not a problem. I pack the canisters and trigger with my boots in hold and bring the bag as carry on luggage
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You know it makes sense.
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It's not out yet, but Lou from Wildsnow says when Black Diamond hopefully release their new system for winter 14/15 that it's going to be a game changer.
that's what i'm waiting for.
If you want one now, just remember that the cylinders take up space. So a Mammut 30litre bag won't actually hold anywhere near 30litre's!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| OliC wrote: |
| that's what i'm waiting for. |
There's always another 'next big thing' on the way. I'm a fan of actually getting kit that works and that I can use now 
| OliC wrote: |
| If you want one now, just remember that the cylinders take up space. So a Mammut 30litre bag won't actually hold anywhere near 30litre's! |
Mammut adjust the quoted volume of their bags to account for the space the airbag takes up, apparently. For any manufacturer, the space taken up by the airbag system will only be a few litres so it isn't like you're losing half the pack space.
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Poster: A snowHead
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And the zip on bags of course don't lose any space as the cylinder is in the base unit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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altis, OliC as you can tell from above when it comes to life saving equipment i prefer the tried and tested. ABS have the longest 'real life' experience followed by snowpulse. As Etto on wildsnow put it 'Very interesting developments, but for equipment as critical as this I’m not going to be a beta tester. Gas cylinder based packs might have their drawbacks, but they are well tested and understood.'
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Avalanche Poodle, nice one, cheers
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| OliC wrote: |
It's not out yet, but Lou from Wildsnow says when Black Diamond hopefully release their new system for winter 14/15 that it's going to be a game changer. |
I think it will only be a "game changer" if its a load cheaper than the the current selection of ABS/Mammut/BCA bags with cylinders.
With the fancy motors, expensive li-ion battery packs and electronics in it can't see it being any cheaper.
Weight wise I recon it will be heavier than a bag with a carbon cylinder, and as i have said before electronics and batteries both hate the cold, much less to go wrong or fail on
a mechanical trigger, you "pull the pin" on a bag powered by a bottle of compressed gas and its going to fill and nothing is going to stop it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| qwertyuiop7 wrote: |
| I think it will only be a "game changer" if its a load cheaper than the the current selection of ABS/Mammut/BCA bags with cylinders. |
The ability to offer you some protection on the way home from a slide is potentially useful, but the fact that you could fly with it quite painlessly anywhere in the world is jolly useful to some folk. If it turns out to be practical, the ability to keep an airbag with small punctures fully inflated is also not to be sneezed at.
I suspect that it could be a little bit more expensive than even the higher end conventional airbags and still make a success of itself.
| qwertyuiop7 wrote: |
| electronics and batteries both hate the cold, much less to go wrong or fail on a mechanical trigger, you "pull the pin" on a bag powered by a bottle of compressed gas and its going to fill and nothing is going to stop it. |
It is worth remembering that both mechanical and explosive triggers have had failures and recalls in the past. Running battering and electronics at low temperatures is a problem, but not an insoluble one and there's been a fair bit of engineering in this area over the years.
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Im always confused why these systems use compressed gas canisters or derivatives of them. Car airbags use micro gas generators where a solid propellant is activated and converts to gas...very quickly. Would have thought this would be a better technology for cold climates as well given the issues you get with pressure variations and temperatures with compressed gas canisters.
Having just completed a 2 yr design project on industrial products using these devices I must be missing something obvious as to why these systems are not used...less so an even more complex compressor/motor system. Curious.
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A few things spring to mind.
Firstly, by using conventional gas bottles and fittings, refills are much easier to come by. Though shipping filled gas canisters has only recently become easy in various parts of the world, carrying empty canisters on a plane is relatively straightfoward. Carrying a couple of hundred grams of toxic explosive material is still a tricky proposition! Motor systems are attracting lots of attention because they are even easier to reuse... just pack the bag and charge the battery and you're good to go for just a few pence worth of electricity and no hassle from any airlines.
Secondly, something with the power of a car airbag but twice the volume sounds positively alarming. Are there gas generating chemical mixes with lower fill rates? Car airbags can break wrists... a surprise detonation of a 150l avalanche balloon on a lift, or in a gondola or vehicle would be pretty hazardous to the wearer and any bystanders. There's quite a bit more engineering required to ensure a safe, controlled burn of the propellant and neutralisation of the resulting gas... avalanche airbags are pretty simple, lightweight and compact things by comparison.
That's not to say there isn't room in the market for a 3rd practical airbag design
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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yariv_har,
The snowpulse guide 30 is only 499 euro from sportconrad at the moment . The refillable bottle is 89 euro.
The bottle only takes up 1 litre of the 30 litre space and can be emptied if going to the states and refilled from a scuba dive bottle.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Has anyone had any experience of one actually working? That would be interesting to hear!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FAQ
