 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Linds, brilliant! They paid up, no quible for my bad back holiday cancellation - I will definitely insure through them again - infact I should do it now 
edit: though not had any dealings for off-piste claims.
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brian
brian
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Linds, we've had a family annual policy with them for the last 4 years or so based mainly on their cheapness. We've had to make 3 claims, one for piste-rescue plus local doctor's bill, one for heli-rescue, loss of skiing etc and one for delay following the volcanic ash fiasco. They paid up promptly and without quibble each time although I think they made at least one administrative error with all 3 claims, so they do seem a little disorganised.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Paid up promptly for Sally's second shoulder dislocation and are now only charging a small supplement to continue covering it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Linds, we were insured with them when JulesB had his slight mishap. medical assistance in France were excellent. Claims department were fine with all the claims for JulesB but were more reluctant to pay out things for other members of the family, but eventually settled all of the claim. We're still insured with them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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We are all insured with DogTag and have been for several years. Our last claim with Dogtag for a broken wrist was paid out in full within 14 days of me sending in the claim form.
We are all insured with them again for the coming year.
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Just had a look at the same level of winter sports cover for Dogtag and Direct Travel with the latter coming in £120 cheaper! Looks like I'll go with Direct Travel for the season as I've had insurance with them for four years now and, touch wood, have never had to claim and so simply ended up with the cheapest insurance going.
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Direct Travel paid up promptly after the OH's accident last year and also refunded our excess as we had used the EHIC card in the hospital. They were really really helpful to me whilst I was in the medical clinic and after.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dogtag was no good for us, too expensive, and didn't cover the number of days we ski each winter.
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brian, with both the piste and heli rescues, did you have to pay first and claim it back ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Astraeus wrote: |
| Just had a look at the same level of winter sports cover for Dogtag and Direct Travel with the latter coming in £120 cheaper! Looks like I'll go with Direct Travel for the season as I've had insurance with them for four years now and, touch wood, have never had to claim and so simply ended up with the cheapest insurance going. |
Surprised at the price difference, perhaps comparing Dogtags highest level of cover with bog standard offering and not using the snowHeads discount scheme?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing, I compared using the SnowHeads discount and it was still much more expensive.
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brian
brian
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jasongibson100, no. In the piste rescue case we had paid it before I got round to claiming (was only a couple of hundred francs). In the heli case the bill was somewhat larger  so we passed that on to the insurer to pay.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'll add my voice in favour of Direct Travel. They paid up very promptly following my daughter's ski injury including on-piste recovery and medical treatment. I found the claims process very simple and hassle free.
Unlike the French clinic who wouldn't even see my daughter, who was in agony, until I went to the cash point and got 200 euros cash!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Astraeus, if you get one of their single trip with winter sports policies just check about trips back - probably not covered (ie if you come home for a few days). I think it was Direct which I eventually found for my son's season, because when I talked to them it was possible to pay a modest additional premium which covered a short trip home. Otherwise the policy will lapse the moment you set foot back in the UK.
You also need to talk to insurers about what work you are doing. It's a bit of a minefield. One insurer which otherwise looked good just flatly refused to cover him once I said that he would be working as a chef.
Your employer might provide some insurance, of course, but not normally to cover skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Linds Not had to claim from them, but had a trip out a couple of years ago while my wrist was still in a cast following a thumb ligament repair. No problems with them covering me - were happy that the doctor had said it was OK - with no additional premium. Prior to the renewal last year we went round the loop of definitions for off-piste and race-training definitions, with sensible answers - posted elsewhere on here - so I can't really fault them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Direct Travel were one of the best for giving a straight answer to most of the questions about what they will and will not cover when they were asked about a month or so ago which was good. But like all these companies they have the' putting yourself at risk clause' so they can always get out of paying up if they really wanted to. If you are not going off piste then most of the companies offer much the same deals, just a matter of seeing which one will give the best price.
If you do plan on going off piste with a qualified guide who, if in France should give you all the safety gear you will need, then Direct Travel are as good as any. If you are doing it yourselves with friends then my advice, make sure you have the right avalanche safety gear and stick to places you know well or they might decide you were putting yourself at risk if anything went wrong. If I can find the wording they used I will post it here later. The same goes for most of the other companies now as well. SCUK, BMC, SCGB, Dogtag, Snowcard, Fogg, Axa - they all have a get out clause if they think you were taking risks so be careful.
I use the carte neige as it is what most french people use and my friends had a big claim last year without any problems when it was off piste. If you use the CN then you only need normal travel insurance for flights, bags etc as a top up which most people get free with there credit card bookings. Or you can get private insurance on top like I have, but that is not cheap.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
If you use the CN then you only need normal travel insurance for flights, bags etc as a top up
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I was wondering about that. But I guess that if CN gets you off the mountain your cheap credit card insurance would not pay to fly you home and deal with other incidental costs if the primary accident was one outwith their terms and conditions?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, carte neige/carrie neige get you home as well, they even take care of the hospital, get you a refund on your lift pass etc. Have a read of the details of my friends accident over on my Les Arcs group facebook page. It is public access so you do not have to sign up for facebook to view it. Link is below.
As long as you are not claiming for the same thing as Carte Neige covers your other insurance is not a problem and covers anything else. Made me realise that for 50Euros a year you can be better covered than for £200 with the big companies. Then just use your free credit card cover for the rest. I think it is time we Brits got smart. Most of the UK Insurance is just playing on your concerns about being abroad. Just my view, and I travel a lot so things do not worry me so much these days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Reading the Carte Neige website there is a 3000 euro limit for medical treatment. The European Health Insurance Card covers 80% of hospital treatment in France provided you are taken to a state hospital and not a clinic.
The Carte Neige S&R costs are also limited if you are outside France.
That seems to leave a potential shortfall to me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's not a very acid test, but I've been insured with Direct for years and never needed a claim. Does that make them good 
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Astraeus wrote: |
| Just had a look at the same level of winter sports cover for Dogtag and Direct Travel with the latter coming in £120 cheaper! Looks like I'll go with Direct Travel for the season as I've had insurance with them for four years now and, touch wood, have never had to claim and so simply ended up with the cheapest insurance going. |
Surprised at the price difference, perhaps comparing Dogtags highest level of cover with bog standard offering and not using the snowHeads discount scheme? |
Why are you surprised?
Even with Snowheads discount, Dogtag have never been cheap. They are recommended for level of cover rather than for price.
Whereas Direct Travel (NOT Direct Line travel insurance) are cheap, but still give a surprisingly good level of cover - enuogh for most of us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been with Direct Travel for years and just had to make my first claim - to replace my Oakley's after losing them in America. Sent off the claim form, cheque arrived about 7 days later. Cracking.
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FWIW I've been with DirectTravel for the last 4 years or so, mainly on grounds of cost and length of cover (sensible trip lengths and no limit on no. of trips). Had to make my first claim with them this year (for something that was basically my fault, and for which I was expecting them to refuse to pay) - they took a little while (it was during the volcanic ash problems, so to be expected), but paid up without quibble.
All in all very pleased, although I am wondering if my premium is going to go up this year having claimed - anyone have any experience of this?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ChrisWo, our basic premium remained the same, apart from a supplement for hubby's injury, now it is mended, it is exactly the same as it was before. Each year of a travel policy is separate from the last one I think.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, Did you read the article that was posted showing how the CN works in practice on my facebook group? As you will see the difference between the costs and what is covered by CN is covered with your EHIC and costs you only 18 euro a day. You get all the rest back. So money wise, it is better than the excess you have to pay on most policies. If you are injured in a resort, you must tell them you are with CN and then they give you the same treatment as a French citizen. You must claim back anything you have paid out, but if you do not have the money, in practice the place you are taken to will claim it direct anyway.
Regarding outside France, yes I see there is a limit, but I have never heard of it not being enough for the rescue and basic medical treatment. After that in European countries the EHIC takes over, even in Switzerland. I think the only place it could be a problem is in the USA. So for me it still seems the cheapest good option.
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Linds, Carte Neige does work in Italy, but you must buy it in France. I do not know if you can get CN online without buying a lift pass. Might be worth someone finding out. It sounds like Direct Travel for what you need is good anyway. Could you tell us what they said re. age limits if any, as people ask this quite often?
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof is right when saying
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Reading the Carte Neige website there is a 3000 euro limit for medical treatment. The European Health Insurance Card covers 80% of hospital treatment in France provided you are taken to a state hospital and not a clinic.
The Carte Neige S&R costs are also limited if you are outside France.
That seems to leave a potential shortfall to me. |
It is very misleading to suggest that a Carte Neige and your credit card insurance and the EHIC arrangements will suffice. That is because most events giving rise to a claim would not be covered appropriately. Ignoring medical issues for one sec, from what I understand, something like 75% of travel insurance claims are for cancellation and curtailment (not covered by Carte Neige) and for personal possessions (not covered by Carte Neige). Most credit card insurance is Travel Accident Insurance (which IS NOT Travel Insurance) which only pays out in the event of death or dismemberment whilst in transit and provided that the travel was paid for on the card. Some fee paying credit cards and charge cards do include Travel Insurance of varying coverage but not everyone has that so it is misleading not to explain that fully and it isn't free. Also most exclude off-piste skiing. EHIC is excellent if you are delivered to a non-private clinic but in many resorts that is all there is and you will be required to pay there and then. OK if it’s a £200 hurty knee but not so clever if it’s a biggie - that's where you want your insurer to start taking control of matters and picking up the total bill directly. Travel insurance is not expensive wherever you buy it when compared to the cost of the trip and much of the premium is actually to cover the cost of cancellation – if you go and compare policies on a like-for-like basis you’ll see that it is the cancellation cover level and personal possession levels that most affects the premium. This is the most disregarded aspect yet many people are forced to cancel ski trips each year because a near family member has been taken ill for example. If it happens on the eve of the trip your operator will not be giving you your money back. So, in my case, a family of four would be down by £3-£4k if we had to cancel at last minute and had followed the advice of going the Carte Neige etc route. A hundred or so quid on a travel insurance policy is a no-brainer. I cannot see the point of cheapskating it.
Whatever travel insurance company you chose, they will have to be FSA Authorised and will be required to adhere to the FSA’s Treating Customers Fairly otherwise they will not be trading. They will also have to be very concerned about the Financial Ombudsman should there be a complaint because the FOS hands out fines and most often comes down on the side of the complainant. Carte Neige are not answerable to either. I’m not saying CN isn’t a good idea, for the money I think it’s well worth having, but you’ll have no protection if a claim is turned down and you’re not happy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We have an expensive policy with American Express. Just rang about the renewal, as it's expensive. Cut off the cancellation insurance (as we are always under our own steam and going to our own place, there's no cost to cancelling) and because I was wondering about cancelling, I was offered a 10% discount. Just did the same with my Saga car insurance, under their "matching quote" scheme. I researched a policy which seemed to give me exactly the same, and cheaper, with Prudential. They checked, and I was right, so I saved £142 a year. For an hour's work.
I think the moral is that if you just pay what you're asked (which I've always tended to do) you're an idiot. Equally, if you think you will get any consideration for being a "loyal customer" you're another idiot. I suppose to some people haggling comes as second nature - not to me, but I think I'm going to start to do it more!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, So what you are saying is simply read the small print BEFORE you buy
Rocket science innit.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
Bode Swiller, So what you are saying is simply read the small print BEFORE you buy
Rocket science innit..... |
or after you buy as you've got 14 days to decide whether you'd like to cancel.
And it is all about the policy wording and not about the marketing words. It's the policy wording you and the insurer contractually sign up to and, in the event of a dispute, it's the document that'll decide the outcome.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| snowcrazy wrote: |
| davidof, Did you read the article that was posted showing how the CN works in practice on my facebook group? |
Yes I did read that and someone on snowheads has posted a similar experience as well (Helen in Serre Chevalier). That seems fine for a normal incident but what if the hospital fees exceed 12000 euros? CN say they limit their payout to 3000 euros. Ok if you are French where you will have a mutuel which will make up most of the difference between the state system and what you will be charged.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, we didn't have the CN when JB had his accident, we used EHIC and our Direct Travel policy for the claim. Refunding the remainder of our season passes proved problematic,which would have been easier with CN I think, the the amount paid out was restricted to 20€ per day for the ski pass, and they only refunded the cost for our trip on which the accident occurred. They returned the passes so we could claim again if we were unable to travel on our March trip, but we retained them and used them again in April when JB had receovered enough to travel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| I cannot see the point of cheapskating it. |
Depends if you are cheap skating the holiday in the first place. As we do DIY trips driving and self catering the loss would only be about £400 if we had to cancel our Dec 18th trip. TBH I've never had to cancel a trip and only had a one day delay (costing £60 for a hotel room). I am only really interested in someone getting me off the mountain and into an hospital. The EHIC then takes over.
I think if you are family unit going on a top end holiday the added cost of insurance makes more sense. Because there is a small chancen the whole lot of you pull out and it is a lot of money on the line. But then that person is probably loaded anyway.
Another way to look at this, is what would you do if you lived in Calais rather than Derby. Would you get the same coverage. What do you do if you take a UK holiday. For me the only difference going skiing in France is the getting of the mountain bit which requires a special and expensive unit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Layne,
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The EHIC then takes over.
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No it doesn't! For some stuff yes, but extras, for example X rays, you still have to pay for (in Moutier by cash or by CC) before you can be dis-charged.
Fortunately we are insured with DogTag and these costs were reimbursed automatically upon receiving our claim form.
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| No it doesn't! For some stuff yes, but extras, for example X rays, you still have to pay for (in Moutier by cash or by CC) before you can be dis-charged. |
You claim it back from the NHS when you get home.
I've read enough to convince me that CN and EHIC will do the job.
Insurance companies prey on our insecurities. Some people want to take no chances. And that is far enough. I am not saying they shouldn't. It's just the way I see it right now. All you can do is read and make a choice.
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Layne,
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You claim it back from the NHS when you get home.
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 ever tried to claim?
and EHIC cover varies fronm Country to country and doesn't cover the private facilities in Ski Resorts such as the Medical centre in Val Thorens and La Plagne and it is to these facilities that you will automatically be taken to after an on (or off) piste accident and then of course a private ambulance ride to the nearest hospital.
I wonder if the NHS would reimburse any of that lot?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Layne, even DIYing for a family of four from the UK can lead to an expensive cancellation. Four flights at peak time can easily be a grand, deposit on accommo, money already shelled out for ski hire etc, all lost if you have a last minute cancellation. It may not have happened to you but it happens all the time to others. One guy and his family on a trip I was on the other year... he went out running a couple of nights before the trip, tore his calf muscle badly and insurance paid out for the whole family to cancel the trip. In the winter some people simply come down with a bug and can't go. I cancelled a trip last year because my mother got ill - she wasn't on the trip and in the end I didn't need to make a claim but, if I had, my policy would have covered it.
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But then that person is probably loaded anyway.
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Bit of an odd thing to say. So it's OK to wave good bye to a few grand then? A normal ski holiday for non-loaded people would be £500 - £800 a head and more if you pre-pay ski packs like a lot of people do, so not difficult to be hanging out for £3-£4k.
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The EHIC then takes over
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if you find yourself in non-private clinic then EHIC helps defray the overall cost but it certainly doesn't "take over".
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| Layne wrote: |
| I've read enough to convince me that CN and EHIC will do the job. |
Have you read the CN website? As I said above the limit they will pay is 3000 euros. If you look on the EHIC website they will only pay 80% of the French social security costs so already in France you have a problem if you have a serious accident which requires more than a couple of weeks in hospital.
(for information, a standard hip replacement operation needing a week in hospital is around 8-10k euros).
If you are not doing park and pipe or that kind of thing or extreme skiing I agree that CN and EHIC would probably be okay but you would be wrong to advise a UK skier that they are 100% covered. Still this is a web forum and people can advise whatever they like. Caveat Emptor and all that.
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FAQ
