 Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry to bang on with yet another insurance question......................
We ski in France. We have travel insurance through our bank which will cover all the theft, cancellation, curtailment stuff.
We have bought our annual carte neige which will get us off the mountain (we do ski off piste without a guide)
We have E111 cards
Am about to renew our annual policy which I took out after much scratching of heads last year with FOGG. I took this out for us as I wasn't convinced I had everything covered and in Pam W's words it seemed a 'belt and braces' exercise.
However, I am now wondering again - do I need this annual insurance policy in addition to all I have mentioned above? Am I going over the top a bit?
Any thoughts much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Repatriation?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wow, that's a lot of small print to read.
Me, I just ride and don't bother with any of that stuff. That's a choice made with knowledge of my personal risks and the potential costs to me.
Other people behave less safely, or assess risk differently and so make other choices - see Prospect Theory for a useful model of why that may be.
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philwig, I would at least get insurance that deals with getting helicoptered off the mountain! I was very much the same as you but fortunately my then girlfriend forced me to buy insurance and I ended up getting a €8000 bill (heli+surgery) of which I paid an excess of £50 (off-piste too!).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And lots of resort doctors are private practices so for something that you don't need hospitalising for might cost you a few hundred euros!
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| loatie wrote: |
Sorry to bang on with yet another insurance question......................
We ski in France. We have travel insurance through our bank which will cover all the theft, cancellation, curtailment stuff.
We have bought our annual carte neige which will get us off the mountain (we do ski off piste without a guide)
We have E111 cards
Am about to renew our annual policy which I took out after much scratching of heads last year with FOGG. I took this out for us as I wasn't convinced I had everything covered and in Pam W's words it seemed a 'belt and braces' exercise.
However, I am now wondering again - do I need this annual insurance policy in addition to all I have mentioned above? Am I going over the top a bit?
Any thoughts much appreciated. |
Off-piste without a guide? look very carefully at your insurance t&c, and if in doubt contact your insurance company. Your age may come into it, too. When I did that sort of thing,the only insurance I was happy with was BMC - not the cheapest. Even if you are uber rich as philwig appears to be, and feel that you can underwrite anythoing that may happen to you, remeber that a good insurance company will effectively take on at least some of the management of your recovery if your problem is at all serious - i.e booking you appropriate transport off the mountain, extra seats as a block on the aircraft, appropriate transport home, recovery of your car ftom airport. The last things you want to be bothering about if you're crook. Well, snowcard was preapred to do all that for me some years ago. Remember also that if your resort doc is private, European Health Cards are not much use.
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Thanks for all the responses
achilles, we are by no means what I would term 'extreme' skiers but we do like to ski between pistes, between trees, to a farmhouse for a picnic stop etc. All within our resort boundaries but if we were to need assistance, I believe for insurance cover we would be deemed to have been skiing off piste without a guide.
FOGG does cover this (I did check with them) but so does the carte neige in terms of getting you down from the mountain.
I believe the carte neige also covers repatriation within the eu although I would have to revisit the small print to check that.
I think I'm left with the question of the private medical bills as davkt pointed out.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| philwig, I would at least get insurance that deals with getting helicoptered off the mountain! I was very much the same as you but fortunately my then girlfriend forced me to buy insurance and I ended up getting a €8000 bill (heli+surgery) of which I paid an excess of £50 (off-piste too!). |
Hi Timmaah. Probably a stupid question, but how can I tell if my Insurance covers me if I need to get a Heli off the mountain should the worst happen? Am I right in assuming that its covered under the 'Winter Sports Insurance' in general or are there special policies/insurance companies that cover this??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh and for evac and repatriation we have Austrian Alpine Club membership, covers summer and winter mountain rescue situations worldwide.
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And another thought, have you checked you bank policy actually gives you the theft, cancellation etc cover if you are on a winter sports trip it doesn't cover?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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scott_j, Should be detailed in the policy document ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yer, I've read through it and there's no mention of it. I (stupidly) assumed that it would have been covered. I think it's probably best to give them a ring on Monday morning. The last thing I need is a €8000 bill only for my insurance provider to turn around and say ''Actually Sir...'' 
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scott_j, My policy document states that cover is provided for mountain rescue. Whilst it does not specifically state helicopter rescue it doesn't exclude it and states that they will pay reasonable costs including search and rescue where it is deemed medically necessary. Surely it will be up to the team rescuing you who will decide if you need a Heli ride or can take a trip in a blood wagon. But yes probably worth a call on Monday to check. I'm going to call mine to ask about cover for off-piste without a guide.
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You know it makes sense.
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davkt, good point - will check that point with bank. Thanks.
Am beginning to realise why I took the belt and braces approach last year and suspect I will be doing the same again this year. My personality type must mean I need to be sure (as much as you can be where insurance is concerned!) that I have all bases covered. Mr loatie far more laid back in his approach to it all - don't know if that is a male/female trait seeing philwig comment - but I'm sure mr loatie will be glad he has a risk averse other half if he is ever in need!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just use my bank account travel insurance, never paid any extra.
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Poster: A snowHead
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queen bodecia, I would do too - in fact we only had the bank account winter travel insurance until this whole 'off piste without a guide' came into play. For me, that's the thing that has put the cat amongst the pigeon with all the fine print you have to wade through to find out if/how you are covered. Our bank account winter cover was pretty good until it came to maximum days covered and the fact that you had to be with a guide if skiing 'off the piste'.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Surely it will be up to the team rescuing you who will decide if you need a Heli ride or can take a trip in a blood wagon
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Yes, and if you have winter sports insurance and are skiing on piste, you will be covered for a helicopter. As you would off-piste, with Carte/Carré Neige or an insurance policy which specifically covers this. One reason I need to take expensive insurance is that I do many weeks winter sports and long trips - none of the cheap policies will cover that. My current policy with MPI brokers was ideal for me, as it didn't assume that you are skiing 60 days in a 60 day trip - which I'm certainly not (e.g. won't be downhill skiing AT ALL this coming week as I don't do lift queues).
Carré Neige (bought with lift pass at less than €3 a day) seems to cover repatriation to what they rather quaintly call "The United Kingdom and the Anglo-Norman Islands but I'm never sure about Carte neige (bought for the season, is essentially a membership of a local sports club). This reference says it won't cover big medical bills and repatriation http://www.ski-insurance.co.uk/france/season.html. Googling on google.fr doesn't immediately provide a definitive answer, most refs come up with Carré Neige. With Carte Neige it seems to depend a lot on the level of cover you take out - I don't think I'd rely on it for repatriation unless somebody can provide a definitive answer.
It could cost you a great deal to be repatriated and if you have a "basic" insurance they would probably refuse to cover costs if the accident circumstances were not covered by their policy. Some accidents cost very little (I fractured my pelvis last year and it was all remarkably cheap) but others cost a lot. Daughter in law repatriated in a leg brace needed long trips in private ambulances both ends of the journey and 3 seats on a British Airways scheduled flight (two for her leg, one for husband). Still a minor injury - if you needed specialist nursing care and repatriation by air ambulance I dread to think how much it could cost.
I don't pay extra for personal items, ski gear, lift passes, any of that - that's all affordable, as is cancellation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've just taken out an MPI Annual Policy and extended the skiing cover for 60 day trips. It also covers off piste. Reasonably priced IMO. I've also added the carte neige equivalent to my L2A season pass (about 40 euros I think) for a belt and braces approach. If I do need taking off the mountain I'd rather have something that is instantly recognised rather than potentially having to pay then claim.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Austrian Alpine Club seems to do pretty much the same as Carte Neige with the bonus of being world wide and year round cover for any and all mountain activity, £45 a year for me and the kids. http://aacuk.org.uk/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davkt, Carte Neige is similar - lots of actitivies and locations, but I couldn't find out about repatriation in the bit of time I spent googling this morning - my MPI policy does cover that though, and like Claude B I found it good value. Usefully cheaper than renewing my snowcard policy.
It's difficult to imagine that any insurance costing £40 a year is going to cover everything!
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I use World Nomads, they are recommended by Lonelyplanet , underwritten by BUPA, offer single, couple or family policies and using WNAUG13 (or other discount codes available online) you can achieve a 5-10% discount.
http://www.worldnomads.com/
For a family of 5, two weeks insurance including ski coverage cost $147.25 (£89)
Full Policy Wording Here: https://www.worldnomads.com/policy_wording.aspx?pid=099d4cc02a2c4020960b24a7fb6418fb
'Explorer Plan' - Standard and higher risk sports and adventure activities: Cover for medical and medical evacuation/repatriation expenses including parachuting. (nb: This includes off piste)
Among other things...it includes rental vehicle insurance excess.
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pam w, I have followed the carte neige link from the Le Grand Bornand website which states:
La Carte Neige est une licence proposée par la FFS qui vous assure toute l'année. Elle vous permet de bénéficier d'une couverture : * Responsabilité Civile - Défense Recours * Frais de secours, de recherche en montagne et de premiers transports médicalisés * Frais de transport sanitaire * Remboursement forfait de remontées mécaniques et cours de ski * Perte et vol du forfait saison * Prise en charge, en cas de bris de skis personnels, de la location d'un matériel équivalent * Frais de soins * Individuelle accident * Assistance - Rapatriement Plus d'infos sur www.grassavoye-montagne.com
www.grassavoye-montagne.com has a faq section which answers the repatriation question as follows:
Si vous êtes domicilié en Europe (zone géographique), la compagnie MONDIAL ASSISTANCE organise votre rapatriement sur un simple appel.
On that basis, it seems to me that the Carte Neige covers repatriation to the UK
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loatie, the FAQ page mentions repatriation to an address in France and when I tried to click through to buy the "Assur glisse" it said it was only valid bought in conjunction with a ski pass. The mystery continues. But as I am sitting here supposed to be doing all my cleaning and tidying up after the Christmas deluge, I will probably keep looking - anything to postpone cleaning the bathroom.  Might even have a glass of wine to help my search along...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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loatie, private medical costs are unlikely to exceed 3600 euros, which is the limit for Carte Neige so I wouldn't worry about that too much. You do have to pay upfront and get reimbursed later but - surprisingly - it wasn't complicated at all. I also think it will repatriate you to the UK, having trawled through the T&Cs in the past.
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http://www2.ffs.fr/carteneige/online
it's all there..... just started trawling through. The cover seems to depend on how much you pay. And you seem to need a medical. am definitely going to need a glass of wine to read it properly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have never had to have a medical for the CN, nor a choice of cover either - usually costs 55 ish euros so I guess it's the "medium" option that you are automatically sold here, which certainly covered everything I needed in terms of rescue, medical costs, reimbursement for remainder of season pass etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, Yep, went with the AAC version (as a no quibbles S&R cover top up to Dogtag) as with 2 kids it is hardly any more expensive than a weeks Carte Neige for the 3 of us and given we all like like the mountains year round the annual cover looked worth the little bit extra.
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The Carte Neige gives you year round cover for mountain sports too - it runs from October to October.
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You know it makes sense.
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miranda, yep the annual version looks quite similar to ACC (had only spotted the weekly one for a few euros a day on top of the lift pass before) if a bit more expensive, the kids are free with my ACC membership.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w,
Hope you're still awake after the glass of wine! Found the relevant repatriation section in the t and c's
4.9 - ASSISTANCE RAPATRIEMENT (G10)
Cette garantie est réservée au détenteur du titre fédéral adéquat pour lequel il a acquitté la cotisation correspondante.
L’assistance Llicence CARTE NEIGE fonctionne 24 h sur 24 et 365 jours par an et organise les services suivants : en cas de maladie ou d’acci- dent corporel garanti, y compris la mort subite, survenant à un titulaire de la licence CARTE NEIGE, dès le premier appel, l’équipe médicale de MONDIAL ASSISTANCE se met, si nécessaire, en rapport avec le médecin traitant sur place et / ou le médecin de famille s’il y a lieu, afin d’intervenir dans les conditions les mieux adaptées à l’état du malade ou de l’accidenté.
Dans ce chapitre, l’Europe géographique com- prend les pays suivants :
Albanie, Allemagne, Andorre, Autriche, Belgique, Biélorussie, Bosnie-Herzégovine, Bulgarie, Croatie, Danemark, Espagne, Estonie, Finlande, France, Gibraltar, Grèce, Hongrie, Irlande, Islande, Italie, Lettonie, Liechtenstein, Lituanie, Luxembourg, Macédoine, Moldavie, Monaco, Norvège, Pays- Bas, Pologne, Portugal, Roumanie, Royaume-Uni, Russie Occidentale, Slovaquie, Slovénie, Suède, Suisse, République Tchèque, Ukraine, Yougoslavie.
So, as Royaume-Uni is included in list, repatriation is covered to uk as I read it ........
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Poster: A snowHead
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miranda,
Thanks Miranda - hope you are ok - didn't realise you had had an accident. Good to know all was fairly straightforward insurance wise with the carte neige.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes, the glass of wine went down fine and have since had a large coffee and the remains of chocs left by Christmas visitors! I suppose a lot would depend on reasons for repatriation. When I was injured last January my insurance (Snowcard) would have repatriated me but I preferred to stay where I was - my little place here is a lot easier on crutches than my three-storey house at home. There was absolutely no medical reason to repatriate me - but it would have been very expensive if I'd not had my own place to stay. What criteria would Carte neige use? It does seem that many of us might be paying really big bucks for insurance which could be covered for €50 euros or so.
What are we missing, I wonder?
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FAQ
