 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I was wondering how much a ski rental shop would charge if your boots and skis are stolen without having insurance? Say for a basic £50/week set of boots and skis? (doesn't £10 a week for insurance seem a bit of a rip off?)
Thanks,
mnbv
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depends if you're happy to stump up 400 quid if someone picks up the wrong skis from a cafe.
As ever it depends on your acceptable level of risk.
Those who begrudge a small premium are often those most upset at paying for the full loss.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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mnbv, a nice shop will charge you replacement cost which for average intermediate kit would maybe not be so bad. Many will charge you full retail to replace as new. Which would be somewhat ouch.
€1.50 a day to insure against a sadly not improbable €750 loss?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I haven't rented skis for many years but travel with some mates who do.
I always think that if you take the shop insurance and something happens then you don't have to argue with your own insurer and if the shop claim that you are not covered you get to have a go at them about mis-selling or having cover that doesn't actually protect their asset (which is what it is for).
Last year one of our group didn't take out the cover, caught a stone on the run home, ripped the edge off his ski (an easy thing to do, no real fault of his own) and got charged €50 for the repair. Suddenly makes €1.50 a day seem a good bet (but then that's how all insurance works - if you don't use it you've wasted your money, if you do use it you've saved some).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The short answer to this question is "No" since commercial insurance only exists to make money. A big concern (e.g. HMG) would carry its own risks. But that doesn't mean that paying a few bob on insurance isn't "worth it" for individuals. The many, who don't claim, contribute enough to pay out the few who do, and to meet all the costs and more of the insurers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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yes they will charge you, probably the new value unless you are lucky - but you've just had your kit stolen so you're not really in a vain of luck are you.
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I'd read the small print to check you are insured if you leave the skis unattended outside a restaurant etc. You may not be. Also there will probably be an excess to pay which means the insurance is useless for reparable damage such as the £50 stone issue above as it will cost less than the excess.
Couple this with the fact you are probably covered on your travel insurance for loss/damage of equipment and £10 suddenly seems quite a lot to pay for very little.
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If you have a big excess on your travel insurance then €1.50 a day to protect that is probably a good idea, especially with the hassle you can get into over a claim. As advised above, check the shop policy carefully. I had to pay for some poles that junior lost the other year as they weren't covered. If the shop policy has an excess then it is probably not worth the expense.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Beware also 'policies' that are a guarantee rather than insurance. So they will pay out a maximum of, say €300 - which is scant comfort if you have hired Gold skis, and discover that you're covering half of them. Particularly when the insurance cost for the Gold skis is considerably higher than for Bronze skis, BUT the cover is just the same...
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what shop insurance may save you is trying to convince the local police station that they are not closed and that you cannot return tomorrow as you have a flight to catch and they need to write their report now, so you can claim on your travel insurance.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| €1.50 a day to insure against a sadly not improbable €750 loss? |
They don't buy gear at full retail, and they certainly can't expect to profit from charging you that to replace second hand rental gear! Anyone would think they were trying to sell you insurance by scaring you.
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| Those who begrudge a small premium are often those most upset at paying for the full loss. |
That's stated like a fact but it's just an incorrect opinion. Perhaps I could counter your assertion with: "people who insure often don't understand the mathematics of what they're doing, as if they did they would probably not do it". Here's why...
In 25 busy seasons I've only wrecked one snowboard, on a buried log. It was my own board and a few seasons old. Policies I've looked at would mostly pay nothing in those circumstances; let's pretend for argument's sake that they'd actually pay me the value of the board, about £100. If I insured for every day I ride for those 25 seasons, you can easily see why pooling my risk at any practical premium would be financially silly for me. I'm simply not that risky, and the potential loss is not that big.
It's a bad deal.
So what's the worst that could happen to me, and would I whine as you suggest?
I could wreck a new board the first day I ride it. That's a warranty issue; snowboards are build to be ridden, and Burton has an excellent warranty reputation. Let's pretend it's a Kessler, £1,000 and only one year's warranty. So no insurance needed for year 1. Let's wreck it in the second season, when the insurance company would value the board at about 40% of retail. If their excess is £75, and the policy cost for a whole season would be... about £75, so I will lose £250 by being not insured if I'm unlucky.
Clearly I can afford to pay £250, or I should not be buying £1,000 snowboards, so I do not whine should I wreck it.
You can run the numbers with any policy and your own history, and decide for yourself if you like the deal you're getting. Whatever you do should be based on sound financial reasoning, or you will lose money.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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philwig, 100% agree. But on rental equipment the bugs will often try to charge full price even on repairable damage.
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philwig, I have seen a shop charge a client full retail to replace a pair of skis that were not even the full retail ski (but the rental version, a ski of significantly lower quality).
Of course they don't buy at full retail (doh!). I know exactly what is paid. A few chums either own or work in ski shops. I also know exactly what several policies state...
" Anyone would think they were trying to sell you insurance by scaring you. " Uhhh, yes, exactly.
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You know it makes sense.
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mnbv, Your holiday insurance may well already cover loss/damage to hire equipment. Mine does.
No one is ever going to nick 'basic' rental skis in a million years
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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red 27, Not deliberately, but I've seen enough people grab the totally wrong skis, especially after drinking.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's like extended warranties. If you put all the premiums you don't spend by not taking out the insurance/warranty into a jar, you'll likely find you'll be in profit in the long run. Of course that also relies on your having the money there to cover any shortfalls should a claim be made in the meantime.
e.g. I've had mobile phones for almost 20 years, insurance works out at about £70 a year, and so that's £1400 I've saved by not taking out the insurance. I've replaced one phone in that time which COULD have been covered by insurance, but it cost me £300, so I'm still £1100 up.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'll insure my car, my motorbike and my house. Anything else I'll replace myself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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feef, i don't think I've insured a phone in 22 years of having one. But I don't leave it in a pile of other phones outside the pub...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| feef, i don't think I've insured a phone in 22 years of having one. But I don't leave it in a pile of other phones outside the pub... |
No, but there's things you can do to mitigate the chances of your skis going walkabout.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The price of 2-3 beers is worth it to reduce hassle in the event of loss/damage. Getting police reports, repair estimates, receipts, paying out of pocket, claiming on insurance, realising there's an excess, just puts a downer on the holiday. The one time I didn't take the hire shops insurance, I put a 2ft score all the way through the base on one ski. Could have queried it, but paid €25 instead as I couldn't arsed to walk up the hill and argue. Just stump up and put it down to cost of your hols.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It was worth it when my skis were stolen a few years back. The ski shop were very nice about it, I was quite upset!
As hobbiteater, said! It was our last day, and the police station was closed!
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feef, i've never had a pair of skis go walkabout in 44 years, much of which was spent with them outside mountain hostelries... 
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So some people prefer to accept a small loss (pay insurance), versus a short term risk of a bigger loss, even if the long term costs are less for those careful people who self insure. From what I understood from Prospect theory, that's what you'd expect.
It's a mistake to assume everyone's rational, and the insurance companies don't generally make rational cases, presumably for that reason.
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Hassle? What hassle?
I got my broken board back onto some piste, borrowed some duct tape from someone to stop the nose flapping, and rode gingerly down to the base. There I opened my toolbox, removed my Visa card, and bought a new board. I threw the old board in the bin with a laugh as I got back to my day.
For me personally it's better to save my cash, that way I can use it solving problems. Or renting helicopters
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My wife's beginner ski's were stolen from outside a bar in Bardonecchia (Italy) on the Tuesday
We were charged 250euro to replace them !!!!!!!
On teh friday we saw the ski's propped up outside another bar............we stole them back.
The hire shop was a bit miffed they had to reimburse me my money.
Since then, we have always used cheap cable locks. (£4 off ebay)
It stops the idiots picking up a pair of ski's that looks like his and bu99ering off in them.
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mnbv, pay the shop insurance. I had a guest who lost a ski on the mountain - didnt have the shop insurance coz he had his own. He had to pay up €400 for the skis, then deal with his own insurance co. His own insurance co had a huge excess and wanted police reports! So that was an expensive mistake. Ive also had guests take the wrong skis from cafes - in error - it does happen. I always advise to pay the shop insurance. Ange 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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philwig, self insurance is often rational and sensible. No question. But if you are a one week a year skier and your rentals get nicked at the start of the season when they have most residual intrinsic value and most imputed future rental value, I'd suggest if the shop's policy is reasonable, it's probably sensible.
I will confess that I've only ever taken shop insurance when it was mandatory (yeah, work that one out. I couldn't).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Personally for the sake of what is often a very small premium I think I'd go with the shop, it's convenience more than anything else, break a ski, damage an edge, have a snowboard taken by mistake (or deliberately) it's a pain, but if all you need to do is go and speak to the chaps in the shop who then issue replacements straight away means your holiday stays as a holiday, surely that's worth the price of a few beers ?
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