 Poster: A snowHead
|
The FIL has booked a hotel in Obergurgl so thought I'd look at travel options thinking it would be simple, well it could be simple if I want to pay nearly 3 grand for Sleazyjet flights from LGW to INN, or have a longer transfer and fly to Salzburg or Munich and pay a little bit less.
Any thoughts on if the apparent lack of direct flights, or the incredibly high prices from the UK (on a Saturday) is that winter schedules aren't fully bottomed out yet (I think unlikely), or if I should consider the other options? (Drive, alternative airport, train, travel a day earlier and book a cheap hotel, or risk connecting flights)?
I've checked direct flights (15-2-2014 -> 22-2-2014 for Munich, Salzburg, Innsbruck and am really struggling
The wisdom of  's will I hope be forthcoming...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Try Austrian Airlines from LHR (not LGW) to INN and you should be able to do it for £343 pp via Vienna. Or from Birmingham for £299 probably via Frankfurt or Munich.
Lack of reasonable direct flights is v probably down to the fact that you have picked the most expensive day of the year to fly to/from Innsbruck. (UK half-term). However, shifting your dates by a day or so either way does not make a huge difference to cost. I am not sure costs are likely to come down much over the next few months.
Munich flights are available from £211 from LHR.
Salzburg flights from LGW are quite pricey at around £470.
Driving looks feasible, but is a good 3 hours longer (13 hrs + ferry) than the French Alps.
Personally, I'd take an indirect flight to INN. 3 hour transfer from MUC is just too long.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Monarch fly to Friedrichshafen - does that give you any better options / prices?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Keep looking around for flights, I've managed to get B'ham - Innsbruck for £50 return before (early Dec though), there can be bargains to be had (often with BA or Lufthansa, too). You can often find flights via Frankfurt or Amsterdam too, an hour or two extra in the airport isn't the end of the world, just get a beer or something. Maybe worth looking at flights to Friedrichshafen too, slightly shorter transfer than Munich.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
LGW to Friedrischshafen is £443 
Manchester to Friedrischshafen is £291. Better, but a bit of a pain if you were looking to fly from the South East.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Thanks folks.
foxtrotzulu, I know, Mrs Ansta1 is a teacher so no option to go on another date I'm afraid. Looking to see if it can be shifted to the Sunday - Sunday as that opens up the option of Monarch flights from Manchester to InnsBruck for £1200 which is almost acceptable.
Would consider a longer transfer time if everything else added up (price and flight time).
Driving is an option 843 miles, so would mean (assuming saturday arrival) leaving after school, over or under the channel then get as far as is sensible before a quick overnighter then last of the drive on the Saturday morning.
NickyJ, yep looked at Fried with Monarch - £1800.
Indirect flights not a major issue, but some connections are either very tight (25 minutes) or next day.
clarky999, Yep, might keep the drive as a last minute option and see if I can pick something up nearer the time for a reasonable price. Not sure if it's a sensible risk given that the world and his wife will want to book travel on either the Friday or Saturday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lufthansa to Munich is always my preferred option, direct flights from Birmingham, Manchester or Heathrow with luggage, ski carriage and refreshments included.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Thanks queen bodecia, realistically what are the transfer times fro munich to obergurgl?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Driving looks feasible, but is a good 3 hours longer (13 hrs + ferry) than the French Alps. |
Depends where in the French alps but, according to Via Michelin... Calais to Val D'Isere is 620 miles, Dunkirk to Obergurgl is 629 - there ain't a whole lot in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
ansta1, I'd hazard a guess at around 3 to 3.5 hours. Never done it myself, but I'm sure someone here has.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
ansta1, queen bodecia, I'd say it's more like 4 hours. The last bit up from Oetz can easily take an hour - it's about 30 miles. And Munich Airport to Oetz could easily take three hours (or more if you get snarled up). When you consider the time from the plane to getting the hire car you are looking at quite a transfer. I think I'd prefer to be spending that time on the road from the Channel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
thanks again all, looking option of moving sunday to sunday, that opens up £1200 monarch flights fron MAN or £1700 from Bristol, both direct to Innsbruck. Still not ruled out multi leg flights which are cheaper or driving. 843 miles door to door according to google routes......
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
monarch take tesco vouchers at 1.5 times face value - every little helps (except in the case of horsemeat)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
monarch take tesco vouchers at 1.5 times face value - every little helps (except in the case of horsemeat)
|
Our excellent local pub put horsemeat on the menu a few months back as all the local jockeys and trainers were asking for it. (Shergar Burgers and Frankelfurters) They loved it, but a high spending couple of bunny huggers got the hump (as opposed to rump) and now it's off the menu once again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| red 27 wrote: |
| monarch take tesco vouchers at 1.5 times face value - every little helps (except in the case of horsemeat) |
Watch out booking Monarch this far in advance. They changed *both* the wife's flights last year to many hours earlier without being clear as to what they were changing. End result was that she missed the flight home as she missed final check-in - despite security allowing her through and people still boarding they wouldn't let her on: so they have lost at least one family of potential customers for ever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
we (2 families) flew to Zurich when last staying at Obergurgl. i am sure the transfer wasnt more than 3.5 hours and we had kids in tow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
In 2011 we skied Solden and Obergurgl by driving to Stubai first to spend the first 3 nights there. Thereafter we drove 62 miles to a self catering flat between Solden.and Obergurgl.
We started as usual from Newcastle to Amsterdam ferry. After a good night sleep the first day was spent on driving the 650 miles from Amsterdam to Neustift near the Stubai Glacier. That year the ferry was leaping and we arrived at Amsterdam at 11:30 which was 2.5 hours later than scheduled. We did the journey in 11 hours after encountering a blocked autobahn near Wesel due to a traffic accident. We had to spent precious daylight time to find our way through the country roads and rejoin the autobahn. Lucky for us there was no traffic jam in Munich and 11 hours journey was trouble free driving as it included stops for meals and fuel.
We stayed at a B&B, 180 Euro for 3 nights for a couple, in Stubai to try out the glacier skiing there. For Solden/Obergurgl we got a 60m2 self catering flat hotel called Sportiv which is 2 miles from Solden and 6 miles from Obergurgl. The flat can sleep 5 to 6 and cost 365 Euro for 5 nights.
The crossing was about GBP 300 for a couple with car and about 11 hours what we need to drive from Amsterdam to Austria say Ski Welt, Ski Amade, Zell am See, Saalbach/Hinterglenn, Zillertal Valley and Innsbruck.
Solden and Obergurgl are only 8 miles apart with 148 and 110km piste respectively. It is a shame not to try one when going to the other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
^^ I wish Newcastle-IJmuiden was that cheap now and in summer. More like 2x that 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| chrisJersey wrote: |
| we (2 families) flew to Zurich when last staying at Obergurgl. i am sure the transfer wasnt more than 3.5 hours and we had kids in tow. |
Train from Zurich to st anton is about 3.5 hours, obergurgl is a fair bit further on than st anton, so good work on doing it in under 4 hours! Did you have a hire car or private transfer?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
andy,
You do it in peak season in summer but ferry is low season for skiing in winter. In winter it is never crowded and you can book almost the day before you travel. In the summer it is a different ball game.
My historical costs of the Newcastle to Ijmuiden crossings were GBP 368, 346, 288, 313, 278 and 318 for 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 & 2012 respectively. The higher costs would have meals pre-booked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Stanstead to Memmingen direct is £161 return pp with RyanAir and then it's 120 miles each way by car.
Heathrow to Innsbruck via Vienna is £344 return pp with Austrian Airlines and then it's 61 miles each way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
clarky999, coach transfer. Heavy snow. Kids say was 4 hours with loo stops. Think it is a similar distance to using Munich. Not ideal but more flight choice
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
| chrisJersey wrote: |
| we (2 families) flew to Zurich when last staying at Obergurgl. i am sure the transfer wasnt more than 3.5 hours and we had kids in tow. |
Train from Zurich to st anton is about 3.5 hours, obergurgl is a fair bit further on than st anton, so good work on doing it in under 4 hours! Did you have a hire car or private transfer? |
Direct train from Zurich HB to St.Anton is just 2 hours 20 minutes, train from Zurinch HB to Oetztal - 2 hours 40 minutes. Bus from Oetztal to Obergurgrl around 40 minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Direct train from Zurich HB to St.Anton is just 2 hours 20 minutes, train from Zurinch HB to Oetztal - 2 hours 40 minutes. Bus from Oetztal to Obergurgrl around 40 minutes.
|
Maybe, but how long to Zurich HB from the airport?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Personally, I'd still just go for a cheap indirect flight to Innsbruck
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I would forget flying so close to the alps with all its inherent risks of delays. Either the train from London to Austria ( Eurostar) or bunny hop cheap schedule from UK to Northern Germany were there is less risks of delays such as Dusseldorf, Dortmund, Paderborn, Hannover or Hamburg you then catch one of the many ski trains specially run from Germany to all the main resorts in winter. I would fly to Hannover from stansted with German wings you pay about £50 return now. Then take the train from Hannover airport the platform is below arrivals it is ride in a lift get the direct train to Hildershiem which 30 mins. then get the ski train to oetz it will cost about £300 return it will drop you off at Oetz train station at the bottom of the valley get the bus it will take about 45 mins for £5. Deutsche Bahn run several dedicated ski services which deliver passenger as near to the resort as possible. I have used the Hildershiem sleeper that runs on Friday night at 19.00 hours and you arrive at Oetz at 08.00 the following morning. The train service in Germany is very good, all announcements are in English and all train staff speak English. I know Lufthansa do cheap flights from UK in advance you could try Frankfurt airport then hire car it is about 5 hour drive to obergurgle german autobahns are very quick. Ryan air fly to Memmingham near Obersdorf they call it Munich but Munich is about 100 k away realy but the benefit of Memmingham it is adjacent to the A7 autobahn that is about a 2 hour drive to Obergurgle. Or buy cheap package deal and do not use the room in some B&B in one of the may hamlets between Solden and Obergurgle, at least with a tour operator they are responsible for getting you from UK to you accommodation.
I now live in UK and travel once a year to ski with friends in Austria and get a flight to Frankfurt and hire a car. Frankfurt is generaly cheap and is not effected by snow and schools hols as much, driving in Germany is easy and quick. German car hire company's are now obligitated to provide winter tyres which will get you through any snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Knees, Blimey Knees. I can hardly imagine a more complicated route if I tried. Apart from the fact that Hanover is a massive dog leg on the route from LGW it is in fact North as well. are you really suggesting that the OP flies to Northern Germany and THEN catches a sleeper?
What is all this about the risk of delays to Alpine flights? i wasn't aware of any greater risk than other setinations and I certainly can't remember being delayed on any recent flights to Geneva, Chambery, Grenoble, Verona etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Stanstead to Memmingen direct is £161 return pp with RyanAir and then it's 120 miles each way by car.
|
hmmm hadn't spotted that option, certainly worth a serious consideration.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I have seen some 'charter flights'
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
That is rather a round about route a couple of post back. If you have to fly and then take train/car I'd at least try to get reasonably close on the flight section. Frankfurt to anywhere in the Austrian alps is going to be 6 hours+ even if googlemaps says 5 and a half (with the possible exception of somewhere just off the Inntal autobahn near Kufstein, and you get no traffic). Flying and then a 9-12 hour night train sounds bonkers - can pick that up in Frankfurt anyway - direct from the airport.
I'd be picking Memmingen, Friedrichshafen or maybe Stuttgart for a no frills flight. Munich, or maybe Zurich for a major airport. Even put Salzburg higher up the list, and I think there's direct train from there to Oetz? Would only choose Frankfurt if you live somewhere where it's a royal PITA to get flights. This is all assuming that Innsbruck is not an option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
there are some direct flights available to INN on the Sat-Sat, either with budget or charter airlines, but the costs are generally between £1600 and £3000 for the 4 of us. I can get it down to about £1400 if I go for multi leg routes, this is okay(ish) price wise, but the worry is that there is either 25 minutes between arrival and the next plane leaving (doesn't leave a lot of room for error) or between 4 and 12 hours which is a fair bit of hanging around in the airport.
I can get direct charter from BHX to INN for £535 pp on the Saturday, but O'leary air from Stanstead to (the other) munich airport and a drive is now looking favourable. even with car hire it's going to come in under £1200 all in. Only downside is the 120 odd mile drive to Obergurgl but that is far from a deal breaker.
So my next question, any idea of the likelihood of needing changes (edit CHAINS) in Mid feb on the drive up to Obergurgl? (the hire car comes with Winter tyres apparently).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
If the snow is so bad you need chains you will not be landing at at any Austrian/Bavarian airport as they will not clear the runways for budget air lines as it costs €5k at time in including the deicer for the runway so you will end up sat in a UK airport waiting for and alternative airport which i have now experienced 5 times in the last two years and that includes Chambery for one of the posters above. The train may seem a little strange but if you board in the north you will wake up in the Alps fresh and hassle free. Trying to intercept the sleeper is difficult and you end waiting on cold platform in the early hours of Saturday morning. Regarding chains most Austrian and Germans do not carry them unless it designated area a good snow tyre will deal with the hairpins to Obergurgle I done it in rear wheel drive cars on numerous occasions (23). If you were traveling in December or March I would not be so risk adverse. Last year some resorts were cut for couple of days. I have lived and worked in Germany for 9 years and commuted from the north to Bavaria for work and to Austria to ski. I can only add that airports are the first form of transport to close then roads which is rare but never the train. With regard to travel times I have traveled from Solden to Hannover in 6 hours thats 500 mile in February. The route from Memingham is is very straight forward three junctions and you are at the Oetz valley. You go over the fern pass which is spectacular for view of the zugspitz the restaurant at the head of the pass which is must for a quick stop to take in the views.
Sorry I may seem a bit cocky but I have done this journey so many times I just know this risks.
Best of luck I hope you get the travel option you want. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Driving will be by far the cheapest option, 843 miles is almost the same distance for me and on previous experience it will cost between £400 & £450 to get a car there & back, that's fuel, crossing & the Austrian toll.
This is based on only doing around 8 miles per litre. If you want an over night stop, only that to add on top.
All depends on whether you are happy to do the drive?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Oh and forgot, you would need winter tyres (to be legal), that could change the costings!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Knees wrote: |
If the snow is so bad you need chains you will not be landing at at any Austrian/Bavarian airport as they will not clear the runways for budget air lines as it costs €5k at time in including the deicer for the runway so you will end up sat in a UK airport waiting for and alternative airport which i have now experienced 5 times in the last two years and that includes Chambery for one of the posters above. The train may seem a little strange but if you board in the north you will wake up in the Alps fresh and hassle free. Trying to intercept the sleeper is difficult and you end waiting on cold platform in the early hours of Saturday morning. Regarding chains most Austrian and Germans do not carry them unless it designated area a good snow tyre will deal with the hairpins to Obergurgle I done it in rear wheel drive cars on numerous occasions (23). If you were traveling in December or March I would not be so risk adverse. Last year some resorts were cut for couple of days. I have lived and worked in Germany for 9 years and commuted from the north to Bavaria for work and to Austria to ski. I can only add that airports are the first form of transport to close then roads which is rare but never the train. With regard to travel times I have traveled from Solden to Hannover in 6 hours thats 500 mile in February. The route from Memingham is is very straight forward three junctions and you are at the Oetz valley. You go over the fern pass which is spectacular for view of the zugspitz the restaurant at the head of the pass which is must for a quick stop to take in the views.
Sorry I may seem a bit cocky but I have done this journey so many times I just know this risks.
Best of luck I hope you get the travel option you want. |
What a load of pompous bollocks! It has happened to me so it will happen to you! 
I live here in the Bavarian Alps right on the Austrian border and we all carry chains when we know there is an outside chance that we may have to use them. Austrian police have the right to stop you and inspect your car for winter equipment, which includes chains. I take my summer box out of the car at the end of October and replace it with my winter box which contains my chains, jump leads, winter screenwash, a blanket ,a piece of karrimat and some work gloves, a torch, and a bag of road salt. I have had to use the blanket, road salt screenwash and torch so far, but never the chains.
Whilst you may have done the journey "many times" I and all my friends and colleagues do it every day, so I think we locals may just have the jump on you!
As for not clearing the runways because of the costs - what planet are you on?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Samerberg Sue, well said.
You will need chains, and I also know of locals who carry them, and have seen cars been prevented from travelling up a road in resort because they do it have snow chains. Yes there are occasionally delays with flights and planes getting reroute, but in 5 winters of guests arriving on flights to Austria (mostly Innsbruck but some Friedrichshafen), a delay owing to a diversion to another airport has only happened about 3 or 4 times, when considering that is across anywhere up to 5 flights a weekend doesn't exactly make it common, Knees has obviously been unlucky.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Samerberg Sue, Sitter, agreed.
I've once had a flight to Innsbruck delayed a day due to snow on the UK end, but the longest delay I've had at Innsbruck was an hour or two - and that's only happened once in a fair few flights. Have also taken off/landed whilst it was still snowing several times too... Never had a problem at Munich either. Deliberately flying to Frankfurt (and then getting a 6 hour train) for a skiing holiday is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the input folks, hotel will take us Sunday - Sunday so will be opting for Monarch flights from Manchester direct to INN.
Not cheap at around £1400 (with extra luggage allowance) but acceptable under the circumstances. The only other real downside is its a 5.15am flight out and a 9.05am flight back. The upside of that is we should be able to get a 'half Jour' in on the Sunday and should be back home in time to have a little bit of downtime before the start of the working week.
right that's that one just about nailed, now to start work on the next one.....
thanks again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
If the snow is so bad you need chains you will not be landing at at any Austrian/Bavarian airport as they will not clear the runways for budget air lines
|
BS
You won't be landing there (Innsbruck) because the no-frills airline doesn't employ pilots capable or licenced to land there, and they will divert to Munich (we'll ignore the fact that that's Bavarian). Lufthansa and Austrian and the flights from Scandinavia will be landing all day long.
| Quote: |
Trying to intercept the sleeper is difficult and you end waiting on cold platform in the early hours of Saturday morning
|
Not really. The train arrives at the station just like any other train arrives at a station. There's a waiting room, you don't need to sit on the platform. But I would advise checking the zone in which your carriage is, on the chart on the platform. The digital displays are even clever enough to tell you if the train is coming in in the reverse configuration too.
| Quote: |
Regarding chains most Austrian and Germans do not carry them unless it designated area
|
Everyone here that I know that goes to the alps has chains. At €35 from the ADAC shop, you'd be nuts not to (and they check your Fahrzeugschein to make sure they sell you the right, compatible set). But what is true is the rental car from Frankfurt (Hahn or the real one), Hannover, Wesel, Köln-Bonn, etc. won't have chains.
| Quote: |
I have lived and worked in Germany for 9 years and commuted from the north to Bavaria for work and to Austria to ski.
|
10 years, but Frankfurt, which is a good couple of hours nearer.
| Quote: |
With regard to travel times I have traveled from Solden to Hannover in 6 hours thats 500 mile in February
|
By car? or by train? You could manage that if you conveniently forget to time the non-autobahn section from Fussen to Sölden, and floor it the whole way.
By train? seriously unlikely, and even if Hannover-Oetz was anywhere near 6 hours, that'd conveniently forget the journey time of the post-bus up to Sölden.
| Quote: |
I may seem a bit cocky but I have done this journey so many times I just know this risks
|
That's OK. Several of us live in Germany too, and have driven to the Alps more times than we can remember, and know the risks.
It's 6 hours from Frankfurt to anywhere, realistically. By car or by train. SO anywhere further North, is both nuts, and by definition longer. Frankfurt, as I said before is only really an option if you live somewhere where flights are a royal PITA. But even then, there'll probably be a flight to Munich, which is 3 hours journey time more convenient.
Oh and ouch at those travel times. They're barely past bed time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Einari78 wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| chrisJersey wrote: |
| we (2 families) flew to Zurich when last staying at Obergurgl. i am sure the transfer wasnt more than 3.5 hours and we had kids in tow. |
Train from Zurich to st anton is about 3.5 hours, obergurgl is a fair bit further on than st anton, so good work on doing it in under 4 hours! Did you have a hire car or private transfer? |
Direct train from Zurich HB to St.Anton is just 2 hours 20 minutes, train from Zurinch HB to Oetztal - 2 hours 40 minutes. Bus from Oetztal to Obergurgrl around 40 minutes. |
I stand corrected, it's been awhile since I've done that journey, and remembered it being over 3 hours. Maybe I missed to earliest connection at Zurich HBF, or got the slow train with more stops, or something.
2 hours 40 from the airport to St Anton: http://fahrplan.oebb.at/bin/query.exe/en?ld=3&seqnr=1&ident=7q.06013168.1372846715&OK#focus
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
