 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok folks, I need some advice
What's a good camera to take out on the piste?
Needs a good lens (optically), manual exposure control and focussing,
and raw image capture. Also needs to cope with cold. I have a little Fuji which
is sort of OK generally, but dies very quickly in the cold.
It also needs to be small - DSLRs need not apply! I don't want
one of them beside my kidneys when I fall on my back!
Anyone got any ideas? Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One of the micro 4/3 cameras would fit the bill, interchangeable lenses by Olympus and Panasonic, some of the latter in association with leica (+a few others) http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html plus if you can't find what you need on that list will take pretty much any slr lens ever made as manual focus and exposure with a cheap adapter from ebay. Smaller sensor so won't match particularly a full frame SLR for image quality but still very good. I've got a Panasonic GF2 but things have moved on a few generations now but mine would tick your boxes
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Canon G15/G16, great lens, optical viewfinder useful when sun's too bright to use the screen, chunky enough to use with gloves on. Great video performance too. Simple to use exposure compensation which is pretty much essential for snow shots.
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Cameras work pretty much as well in snow as they do out of it. You'll want exposure compensation so you can adjust for the brightness. Manual overrides should be standard on any serious camera. Personally I think you need to shoot raw, as snow can be very hard for some camera white balance systems to deal with, and you do get jpeg artefacts in it.
Batteries do have less life in them in the cold, although it's only really noticeable when it's below minus 20. Newer battery technology is hugely better than a few years ago. Camera batteries only have a limited life, so a replacement may help: just get a second as a spare. Keep the spare in a warm pocket and swap the batteries when you need to - you should find the "used" one comes back to life once you warm it up a bit.
I've always used an optical finder in snow; maybe someone here can comment on EVFs and LCD back panels in bright light, but I'd be a bit wary of those until someone says they're good.
Lens-wise, for most shots you want to be pretty wide. If you're shooting a fixed point (eg a jump) with experts then you can go extremely wide; for more general use and competent riders I find 24-70 (35mm) perfect. My buddies who photograph holiday skiers for money use longer lenses (200mm) as they can be more dangerous to get close to. The usual rules apply: sensors come and go, so put your money into the best lens you can find. I like my moderate 24-70 zoom, but a fixed lens would work fine, you'd just get a few less shots per pass.
Oh, you may want to check frame rate and auto-focus speed. SLRs are well past where either's a problem, but I'm not sure about compact cameras.
What's a good camera? Pretty much any of them. At the moment there's lots happening in the non-SLR market, the challenge is just to back the right horse, lens-wise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I gave up on the idea of interchangeable lenses when I found some of the super-zoom bridge cameras which are now available. I have a Fuji FinePix HS20 (IIRC) which takes excellent photos. But I still find it too big to ski with on a daily basis so I normally just I stick with my compact panasonic in my pocket - the TZ40 is probably the equivalent model now.
As for dying in the cold, make sure you are using LiMh batteries if possible and keep a spare set in an inside pocket.
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A friend of mine who is a pro photographer rates the cannon highly. Checking online for prices seems that uk suppliers want around £250 for the s110 and the Hong Kong outfits around £150. Anybody used digitalrev etc?
I want one.
Ps there's a s120 out now!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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+1 for Micro 4/3's
I have a Panasonic GH1, they go on ebay for approx £150 these days and will continue to get cheaper as newer cameras are released incredible shots and you can get a couple of pancake prime lens 14mm and 20mm very small, and your set, the video on them when hacked is incredible to.
Sadly they are not watertight though, if you want that its top end, Pana GH3 or Olympus Em1 both watertight, and then either the 12-35mm Pana zoom lens or new 12-40mm Olympus lens both of which are splash and cold proof.
Personally though those rigs are really expensive, body plus lens you are looking at £1500+ to risk falling on so I went for cheap 2nd hand GH1, I keep 2 battery's in my inside pocket, not that I have had a massive issue with cold yet, and if I do trash it, its not the end of the world because I can get another one fairly cheaply.
I would recomend getting a camera backpack as well, lessons chance of falling on it, you can get good ones from lowepro and kata for example that have a nice little bit in the bottom for the camera with side access, and another section on top you can use for sandwiches, transceiver, shoverl etc.
Have fun
G
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Or if you want the best camera bag out there the Fstop gear Loka is a fantastic camera ski backpack, expensive yes but I have no worries when hauling around several thousand pounds worth of EOS5D MkII, L series glass and Micro 4/3 kit in mine.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Personally I don't need waterproofing, although my gear happens to have it. Just take care of the end-of-day transition from cold to warm and that's it. Cameras are tough. Some of my mates shoot all season with consumer-grade SLRs and they last several years of every-day use before they're done, and they go obsolete before they die.
For pro cameras I much prefer chest bags to back packs. They leave the camera well protected (unless you like falling on your face) and where you can get at it, plus they work fine in combination with standard shovel packs. If you're caring 30 kilos of gear than you'll need a back pack, but in my case at least that's not really what I want most of the time. Each to their own of course.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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+1 for Micro 4/3rds. I had a GF-1 for years and love my Olympus EM-5. I was a pro photographer for a few years recently and would happily have ditched my enormous Nikon D700 + 70-200mm lens for my EM-5 in many situations (low light being the only place the D700 showed a clear advantage) if I didn't fear customers laughing at my "tiny" camera! Which I could get to usually give just as impressive results, just a fraction of the size. Love the built-in image stabilisation too, fantastic for when you are shivering with cold!!
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I've got a M 4/3rds ( the GH- 1) way took big for skiing without a back pack. Great cameras but all too big to fit in a shell jacket pocket (for me - YMMV). Ultimately I m there to ski, not photograph, so the Photos/videos are for my own personal memories, not to get a sense of satisfaction from "creating" a great pic (which I love to do elsewhere so I get that ).
Still think the Canon or equiv (Richoh GR series?) is the way to go; Look at the relative sizes . and remember the old rule , It s the camera that is with you that takes the best photo - or something like that !
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You know it makes sense.
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I have a Pentax WG-1, its shockproof, waterproof, (I've used it for underwater videoing) coldproof and crushproof (apparently they drove tanks over them when they tested them). I love it, its small and compact, fits into my ski jacket without that big bulge, but above all it takes excellent photos, for something that looks like it belongs to Action Man, the photos come out brilliantly. Have had it for 2 years now, so there may be an updated version.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Oh and it has a great zoom for its size. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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mishmash, But all of those cameras would easily fit in the pocket of any of my ski jackets and good as the Canon is I'd hate to loose the flexibility of different lenses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davkt wrote: |
| mishmash, But all of those cameras would easily fit in the pocket of any of my ski jackets and good as the Canon is I'd hate to loose the flexibility of different lenses. |
fair enough , but they won't fit in my shell style jackets with comfort ! As I said, "Great cameras but all too big to fit in a shell jacket pocket (for me - YMMV)" .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GF2 fits in my close fitting softshell fine so I guess it depends on pocket design.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Duplicate post deleted
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 18-11-13 22:06; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My OM-D fitted fine in a pocket with a 20mm pancake lens attached too! I used my camera phone a few times (high end for camera phones - I had an iPhone 4S and a Galaxy Note II) but the dynamic range just wasn't anywhere like as good - which becomes even more important when you're photographing scenes with snow in.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've tried the micro 4/3 route but the sensors are too small, so there is too much noise in the pics.
I recently bought a Nikon Coolpix A in my never-ending search for that holy grail (compact camera that takes DSLR-quality pics). And this camera does just that.
It has a DX sensor, sharp lens, manual controls using dials rather than menus (yes!), manual and autofocussing, RAW pics, continuous drive and is solidly built. It takes fantastic photos because they haven't tried to cram too many damned megapixels onto the sensor and the lens is great quality.
It's certainly not perfect (I wouldn't mind a faster lens, faster max shutter speed and inbuilt optical viewfinder) but I have quickly grown to love this little fixed focal length camera.
Other brands do DX sensor small cameras (a lot of them are better cameras, e.g. Fuji X100s) but they are bigger in size and, thus, too big for me to carry around every day.
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Good luck with that, for now. Your best chance is probably the Sony DSC-RX1R, because it's got a proper sensor in it and you can stick it behind a decent lens. That's not what the OP was after of course.
With more modern alternatives to the traditional SLR "pentaprism" design, perhaps the days of the OM-1 style small-but-professional-standard cameras may be coming back, one step at a time.
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Canon S100 here, and very happy with it on and off the slopes. So much easier than lugging and SLR around.
Bought mine from digital rev, was very impressed with their service and price! Though to get around import fees (I presume) the package was marked as having a £40 value (or similar).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for all the suggestions, folks - plenty of food for thought
Now it's time to write a Christmas list 
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philwig, I have shelves full of pro gear that I use for work, so I know what I want from a 'handbag' camera and that little Nikon ticked the most boxes out of all the cameras I surveyed. No doubt, better ones will come along in the next 12 month (and I'll be in line to try them out).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My Canon S110 now has dust spots on the sensor. Yes, the Canon S90/100/110/120 makes great pictures but a quick google will reveal that it's very badly sealed. Having had a Panasonic LX2 for 6-7 years which was kept in damp jacket pockets between pictures and still going strong in the keeping of one of my lads, I know that protecting a compact's sensor from acquiring dust was possible back in 2006. So for a popular, big brand camera, bought in 2012 not to be, is unforgivable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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moffatross, I had dust issues with a cannon g7, very annoying. Some cameras have self cleaning sensors.
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Nikon 1 AW1 - waterproof, freeze proof, shockproof (within limits), interchangeable lenses from the Nikon 1 range inc 2 waterproof ones, shoots RAW.
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You know it makes sense.
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jbob, that's bad luck too and I see that the G7 is a similar format. Effective auto-cleaning makes sense if any dust is even possible in the camera's design, and if not, like my APS-C, access to the sensor for manual cleaning with a swab and methanol should be made easy. With the S-series, it's totally inaccessible without stripping the camera to pieces and needs to be returned to Canon at customer cost after 12 months from new.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| moffatross wrote: |
| My Canon S110 now has dust spots on the sensor. Yes, the Canon S90/100/110/120 makes great pictures but a quick google will reveal that it's very badly sealed. Having had a Panasonic LX2 for 6-7 years which was kept in damp jacket pockets between pictures and still going strong in the keeping of one of my lads, I know that protecting a compact's sensor from acquiring dust was possible back in 2006. So for a popular, big brand camera, bought in 2012 not to be, is unforgivable. |
Interesting.. is it definitely dust adhering to the sensor?? Not just dust in the viewfinder or in the lens housing which wouldn't make any difference to the actual image....
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've used a little peli case to store compact cameras in whilst skiing... its small enough to fit in a coat pocket, but you can also tie it to a rucksack strap or similar. They're handily crush proof and water proof (and buoyant even when loaded, as it turns out) and don't cost a whole lot.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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moffatross, Thanks for that... Blimey - I'm the most careless lens changer ever and never had anything as bad as that!
I was looking at upgrading my S70 for the few times I don't take a DSLR and the S110 was the obvious choice for me now at £150 ish. I hadn't searched for 'sensor problems'. Had I done so I probably wouldn't have taken much notice anyway, as internet always highlights deficiency. Seeing '1st hand' here has convinced me otherwise though.
Although cleaning the sensor doesn't look difficult, unlike with a DSLR you can't do it 'in the field'.
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allanm, same with my mirrorless but its sensor is 10 times bigger. I suppose that the size of the Canon's minuscule sensor in relation to the size of the muck will accentuate its effect on the image.
Interested in your observation that cleaning the sensor on the Canon doesn't look difficult. Can you see an easy way in ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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After a further google, I found a potential solution for removing crud from compact sensors and that is to vacuum the lens (using the round tube fitting of a domestic vacuum cleaner) without any disassembly of the camera at all. Happily, after three or four goes, this has shifted all of the crap off of the Canon's sensor. Good old internet, eh ? 
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