Skiing and Down Jackets

A snowHead

Am thinking of buying a The North Face Saiku down jacket to ski in in January in Kitzbuhel - I've previously layered with a base, fleece type layer and gore tex shell but I like the style of a down jacket.

In everyones experience, is buying this down jacket a good idea to ski in and if so, what should I wear underneath? Will a good base layer and the down jacket be enough and will I fall into the trap of being too hot skiing and too cold on lifts/stops?

Ta

A snowHead

I wear down when it's -10 or colder. Anything warmer and it's too hot but them I am a fat ba5tard. Base, fleece and shell is a better option unless the conditions are very dry and cold.

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speedy, I would be a bit concerned about being too hot in that jacket, unless it gets to be very cold or you don't generate a lot of heat while skiing.

This Patagonia is my every day jacket for most of the cold weeks of the year, but I rarely ski with it. Instead, I do what you have done and layer with fleece and my shell. If it gets very cold (and I'm not wearing my uniform), I might use the down, but I run hot, and it's usually too much.

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I layer with a uniqlo ultralight down gilet or hoody depending on the cold, usually only if with slow skiers or when I know I'm on long chairs. £40-£70 and v useful elsewhere. They are a good thickness for skiing.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I have a down jacket which I wear when it's VERY cold, but I rarely wear it when skiing, not least because I ski with a pack on, and it just compresses the jacket so much that there is a noticeable difference in it's insulating properties.

I was skiing in white-out conditions last year in Tignes, below -10 and was just wearing a base layer, mid-weight fleece, heavy fleece and shell and was toasty enough.

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I've worn a down jacket as a mid-layer for the last season or two. Amazing when it's cold, and seems to not get over-warm in milder conditions although I don't wear it unless it's -5ish degrees or colder . I had a cheap one which wasn't great at moisture management, but have a new version this year from Salomon which is much better in that respect. For that reason I wouldn't wear it as an outer layer unless it was waterproof.

After all it is free

speedy, don't do it you will melt! Down jackets are great for apres ski or for putting on at lunch/beer stops, but if you try and ski in one you'll be soaked in sweat. My general ski attire nowadays is two t shirts and a goretex shell and even then I still find myself getting a bit hot from time to time. Down is also not very durable and suffers when it gets damp. The combination of bodyheat and snow is likely to ruin your expensive new jacket. As a final point, down jackets also aren't very durable (they are designed with lightweight materials to compress easily) and your jacket will therefore be very vulnerable to tears caused by skis, poles, boots, edges, icy snow, branches etc.

If you like the down jacket i'd suggest a small backpack to carry it in so you can pop it on at stops.

I'd be worried about about durability - it looks like a lightweight packable jacket and the shell fabric on those is generally much more susceptible to getting ripped by trees/lifts/stray ski edges etc than a goretex or similar shell jacket

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Never quite seen the point of down/microfibre mids... they're more expensive than fleece, and much less robust and breathable. Seems like they'd also be too warm for the average day tour, and if you're resort-based you don't need the light weight. And as its a mid, you will presumably not be taking it on and off all the time, so the pack size isn't much benefit either.

Still, someone's gotta keep the economy afloat. Don't let me discourage you wink

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I usually generate a lot of heat and I have worn a Nike ACG down jacket for skiing very often. On warm days in March the down jacket over a tee shirt is warm enough, and on colder days I wear a fleece as a mid layer and a thermal vest. If too hot I just undo the zip a bit to let the air in. I have never been cold while skiing with my down jacket on, even on windblown chairlift rides.

Another advantage of a down jacket is you can pack it up really small squeezed into a carrier bag in your suitcase so you do not have to wear it (like bulkier ski jackets) while lugging skis and suitcases around stations and airports.

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Likemishmash I also have a Uniqlo down gilet which I use as a midlayer when its VERY cold. Otherwise I use a superfine merino wool baselayer and a Fat Face ski jacket which has some insulation (from the days when they made real technical ski wear) and then if its is -10 I will add a merino sweater from Gap. The gilet only comes out of we are looking at - 15 or below, particularly if there is wind chill. The fact that I also wear a back protector and a back pack means that if I put on the gliet at any higher temperatures I end up having my own personal sauna under the jacket, not very attractive Embarassed

I have a north face down jacket that I basically use as a mid-layer sweater under my uniform - I get very cold very easily. It's now about 8 years old and gets used 4+ days a weeks during the season, and apart from a few black marks (it's very light green) there's no obvious wear. I also use it year round as my "keep in the car" jacket.....works well when it get windy at the beach.

You know it makes sense.

just to clarify, I'm not thinking of wearing baselayer, down jacket and shell jacket!!!......I'm more thinking of wearing a baselayer (good quality, I normally wear schoffel or icebreaker or HH) and the down jacket.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I carry a down gilet in my backpack in case it gets seriously cold. I find it significantly better than fleece. It rolls up like a tiny sleeping bag, takes up very little space (about the size of a pint of milk). I would only use it when it's very cold because as mentioned above, they aren't great if they get a bit sweaty.

It is very handy for when you have to stand about waiting for things like ski school medal presentations etc. as the afternoon sun is fading.

A snowHead

speedy, depends a bit on how you ski...

If you're a beginner or in lessons & so standing around a lot you might need the warmth, but if you're skiing energetically you'll likely get too hot.

A snowHead

I ski fairly quick and don't forget, I'm going at the end of January which is normally much cooler than March/April!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

speedy, FWIW (FA prob) I would advice against. Windchill is the great enemy and your previous base/fleece/gortex combo sounds more flexible to me

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I've accumulated quite a bit of insulation over the last three or four of seasons (not exclusively for skiing) including two down jackets, a primaloft jacket and a primaloft gilet. All four are superb however...........

I would not consider skiing in a "proper" down jacket (I have a Mountain Equipment Lightline) but it is great for evenings round the village over a T shirt or any sort of standing around in sub zero activity.

I have a Rab Microlight jacket (similar thickness to the Uniqlo ones but lofts a bit better) which was fantastic in the really cold spell we had in the Alps last year (or was it the year before) - long sleveved base layer, this jacket and shell and I was toasty - it was however -20 and colder.

My standard kit is base layer, thin 100 weight fleece (cheap one from Decathlon) and shell. Ditch the fleece if it is spring-time warm. I carry either the Primaloft waistcoat or jacket in my pack. They compress well and take up little space and are seriously warm.

The primaloft gear is also great for the UK - warm and shrug off the wet (though they are not waterproof) so good for mountain walking thowing on after a run etc.

Horses for courses but no skiing in down unless it is genuinely brass monkeys!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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speedy, good for drinking beer in, otherwise layer up/ down is my advice, get a merino base layer, goretex outer and layer up between as cold conditions dictate.

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I run hot so find it uncomfortable skiing in anything more than a mankini.

After all it is free

for the last 30 years I've usually used a check lumber jack shirt and reindeer sweater. Although I dispense with the harris tweed jacket and use a proper ski one (tk maxx) (harris tweed doesnt have enough pockets or anywhere to put my book). Except last april in 3v last week of the season when I only used a T shirt. (blue)

speedy, now before I begin I should declare I'm an Arc'Teryx freak and think my Cerium is the best thing since sliced bread ( well toast actually)

But if truth be told it's absolutely not an everyday ski in jacket. I prefer and would certainly recommend good merino base ( which you sound like you have) possibly a thin mid layer depending on how your body generated heat, but then a good quality soft shell (Arc'teryx Gamma?) which depending on the exact variety you go for, will offer breath ability, water resistance, wind resistance and warmth (some merino lined). And of course for the outrageous weather an outer hard shell ( which again I think you already have)
By all means get the down/primaloft jacket, but not as an everyday Smile

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I have a North Face down and consider it too warm when skiing.
Have used it at -30 deg plus wind chill and its still too much.
Also ,not good if it rains........
So I have just got a quality Volkl lightweight jacket and will layer up.....
The down is great for après/evenings tho and also folds into its own pocket,so still VERY useful.

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Those of you who take different jackets for apres etc, how do you manage it? Once I've got my ski boots and raclette machine in the case and left enough weight allowance for the three litres of genepi coming home there certainly isn't room for such extravagances. I have to resort to turning my pants inside out half way through the trip to avoid the excess baggage charges Shocked

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The only time I've worn my Rab down duvet jacket is being caught out in an overnight storm on an exposed plateau in 117mph winds and freezing wet snow, watching a night ski race and for walking back from the pub in -29C.

It's rare I wear more than a thin base layer and a shell for skiing, but carry a light synthetic jacket compressed in my pack.

And whilst not very useful in helping you make the decision, this is an interesting take on some of the technology Wink

You know it makes sense.

What half of them said - you'll just drown in sweat. Down jackets ("duvets") are great for the pub or for rescues, but if you're generating heat... no way. I've more down jackets than you lot have TVs, but I don't wear them for riding.

Most people are unlikely to get out much below minus thirty (because they'll turn the lifts off and this is "the piste"), but even when it's cold enough to freeze exposed skin, I'd never wear down for riding. I'd just burn up. It would be like cycling hard in a sauna. Stick a few thin polypropylene layers between a wicking base and your Goretex and you're good to go.

I suppose it depends what you mean. Recent fashion has super-light and thin down jackets (my favourite), which I guess you could use during excercise. Fleece would be cheaper, more resilient, and easier to wash.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

It depends on you. I regularly wear a fairly high loft Patagonia primaloft jacket while skiing underneath a 2L gore jkt and with thermals underneath. I wouldn't say I'm generally a cold person (though my hands do suffer on occasion) but I'd definitely notice the difference if I didn't wear that loft.

I wouldn't say it'll definitely be too warm like some here are doing, but finding out might not be comfortable for you if it does go one way.

A snowHead

some good help on here, thanks all! The one I'm interested in is on the below link, curiously under "ski jackets" on EB's website - I've seen it advertised elsewhere as a "snow sports" jacket

http://www.ellis-brigham.com/products/the-north-face/mens-saiku-down-jacket/306305

A snowHead

I have not used that particular jacket but my Mountain Hardwear down jacket has a similar design and fill power and you could never use it for alpine skiing in any sensible way. The loft is so high you are like l'homme Michelin and you would need a monster of a shell jacket to go over the top if you had not already sweated to death. Shortly after I bought said jacket I used it for snowmobiling in British Columbia which, I had been warned, can get a little chilly. After about 20 mins I had put all mid and base layers in my backpack and still had to stop to vent the jacket every few minutes whence an enormous cloud of sweaty fog would erupt.

Unless you are a particularly sedate skier then down jackets are ott under even very cold alpine conditions. Technical down jackets are more suited to Arctic and high altitude conditions where temperatures below -25C are expected although I would pack one if touring at any time so as to keep warm if you are forced to stop and take shelter by unexpected poor weather, etc.

However, some people do get very cold and for them the best solution its always several thinner layers as these are more controllable.

For the majority of people these high fill power jackets are best suited to hanging around outside of an evening while your filthy tabber mates polute their lungs.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

"Water resistant" is not "water proof" and down doesn't insulate if when. Use as an outer layer sounds a no-no to me.

Like some others here I use a down jacket in the evening. It is too hot to use as a mid-layer even when it's really cold and not durable or waterproof enough as a shell.

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mcspreader, yep, i have a similar experience with my MH jacket. Mind you, it was bought expressly so that I could wander into town in -7C temps with only a t shirt underneath. For which it performs admirably. Any serious activity beyond a brisk walk and I over heat.

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Serriadh, I find a hard shell warmer - more wind resistant than any soft shell I have experienced. I wouldn't want to be out in -25 with a bit of a breeze in a soft shell.

+ you're always going to get some snow melt somewhere and I prefer dry shoulders.

I'll wear a softshell in spring and I try not to ski in the rain.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

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