Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bad link
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shaun, try that one...
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Works a treat
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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no mention of improving the diabolical on mountain restaurants - all the charm of watford gap services on a wet tuesday at the end of January..
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Ah, bertie bassett, never one to resist a dig at your favourite ski resort, eh?
In recent years CMB have actually tried to listen to the criticism. Prices and selection is better. To be honest, the CMB operated restaurants are no worse, comparable or better vs. company owned venues in many North American areas. And at least sell wine.
Really only Brevent-Flegere lacks good independent competition. Grands Montets has the Refuge Lognan and La Cremerie, La Tour has the Refuge de Balme and (new last season and quite great) Ecuries de Charamillon and Les Houches has a handful of good or great places to eat (and not one operated by CMB I don't think)
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Personally, I love the area of Chamonix but that is purely down to my love of being in and around the Mont Blanc Massif… However, I don't think I would ever go there to ski/snowboard on piste… At the end of the day, they can throw as much money as they like at the lift system, it just doesn't alter the fact that the 'on-piste' stuff, throughout the Cham Valley, is extremely limited IMO…
I spent a week in Cham several yrs back, and was lucky enough to have our own transport… We did pretty much a day in each area, but still needed to head out to the Evasion Mont Blanc area to fill the week…
Chamonix is all about the 'off-piste', which of course the new lifts will help, but it will never get away form the fact that Cham will not appeal to the masses, as ski 'resort'… More one for the powder hounds...
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If ALL the customers didn't like it, they wouldn't sell any lift pass. Don't confuse what you consider value with what everyone else wants or is happy to accept.
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feef wrote: |
If ALL the customers didn't like it, they wouldn't sell any lift pass. Don't confuse what you consider value with what everyone else wants or is happy to accept. |
i'm not sure i understand what your saying? They sell lift passes because people want to ride the terrain on offer? everyone that I know continues to give them money because of that fact, and we all continue to enjoy every day on the hill despite CMB not because of them...
i'm not sure how anyone could look at the infrastructure and service being offered by CMB and then compare it with say the PDS next door and then consider the service being offered by CMB to be good value?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And those you know comprise what proportion of the total sales of lift passes in the area?
If it was really that bad, people would start skiing elsewhere or, as you suggest, they are there for the terrain and not the infrastructure.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Quote: |
will not appeal to the masses, as ski 'resort'… More one for the powder hounds
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Even that is a stretch, unless you know the area well, are with someone that does or are forking out for a guide Chamonix is not great. Now to avoid confusion it has amazing terrain, incredible off piste and some amazing options but, it gets tracked out quickely, the lift bottle necks at the Grand Montes can be a disaster if you are not there early. Oh and I really hate the busses/distance between resorts! I certainly don’t think it is value for money, and it is overpriced but you are paying for what it is
That said I would recommend everyone visit/ski there once in their lives as it is amazing!
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eddiethebus, The SERAC restaurants in general have a better selection and (slightly) keener prices (I think...) than they have had in recent years. Maybe I've just got used to them.
"MBU is the most expensive weekly pass in western europe" - well, I guess if you exclude Switzerland from Western Europe. 4 Vallees 6 days (at google exchange rates) = EUR 288.12. MBU = EUR 282.00
I have no comment on infrastructure otherwise. Some of it is indeed rather dated. But then, so is much of the PDS or the Grand Massif.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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eddiethebus, no... but I would question how many "average" visitors actually "need" an MBU vs LP anyway?
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Poster: A snowHead
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its no accident that anyone on holiday who enjoys regular cruisy piste skiing HAS to go to les houches!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eddiethebus, True words here… and as much as love Les Houches as a 'resort' in its own right, it is in no way big enough to satisfy a half decent skier/rider for more than a couple of days…
Chamonix is what it is… It is for the more advanced/adventurous skier/boarder. But I do agree in that you can get just as many thrills in close by regions, for a fraction of the price, a fraction of the 'hustle and bustle' and enjoy a lot nicer 'resort' feel as well…
Does Cham offer value for money…? IMO it does, if you know what you are going for… If you haven't researched your trip and you head there with 2.5 kids and ski school for some and free ski for others… Cham = nightmare… and a pricey one at that...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have did one week and a long weekend in Cham. Don't care about mountain restaurants as I never use them. If they are bad then clearly for some it will be an issue. For me the lift system was pretty poor so if they are finally upgrading a lot then that would be a very good idea IMO! However, I note that this is a 40 year plan with the initial push being over 6 years. So it's going to be a while before you can really see a broad improvement. For me the lack of proximity and interconnection between the segments is always going to be a downer and clearly will always remain. Perhaps over the long run this can broaden the appeal but for me Cham will remain a place to consider for a predominantly off piste trip rather than anything else.
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eddiethebus, AlpineAddict,
May I humbly suggest that you may not necessarily be viewing the situation through the eyes of the average holiday skier?
We have around 45 week-groups a winter staying in our apartments.
They universally seem very happy - often they are on-piste only, or families, or with young children. Often times, when conditions aren't what I'd want (no precipitation but... cold and sunny) feedback is very positive about the on piste situation.
We have a number of parties (generally European) who book every year. (N.B. our experience is that Brits like to try new places every year).
It can't, therefore, be all that unappealing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, what in your view is the attraction for a family ski holiday? Because quite honestly I can't see it. Though, of course, I take what you are seeing on the ground at face value - I don't get why it might be. Unless of course people view the multiple sector thing as a "good thing"?
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under a new name wrote: |
eddiethebus, AlpineAddict,
May I humbly suggest that you may not necessarily be viewing the situation through the eyes of the average holiday skier?
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thats exactly what i'm doing. I couldnt care what the cost of the pass is for a week as i'm never going to buy one, I also couldnt really care what the lifts are like, what the restuarants are like (never use them) or how many pistes are bashed (rarely ride them).
I'm looking at it purely on what CMB offer that could be consider value. They charge more than just about anyone else, spend less on lifts than anyone else, bash less pistes than anyone else, groom the park and spend less investing on it that anyone else (even canned the DC contract because of insurance costs!) They even refuse to open early or close late depending on conditions because they dont have to.
IMO opinion they remain in business and gain repeat custom based enitirely on the elevation and terrain.
I just dont see how the actual service they provide could be considered value.
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eddiethebus, I'm not saying it is I think you and I are talking at cross purposes.
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Layne, I think people do (like the sector thing). And I'm now struggling to define in my own head what a "family" ski holiday is. I don't think I can
eddiethebus, ah, yes, the average holiday skier who never buys a lift pass, doesn't care about the lifts (I guess as you'll never use them without a pass), doesn't use the restaurants and doesn't ski on piste. Yesss, very, very average.
Sorry folks, I'm off. Dogs to bark, etc.
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Quote: |
h, yes, the average holiday skier who never buys a lift pass, doesn't care about the lifts (I guess as you'll never use them without a pass), doesn't use the restaurants and doesn't ski on piste. Yesss, very, very average.
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under a new name wrote: |
Layne, I think people do (like the sector thing). And I'm now struggling to define in my own head what a "family" ski holiday is. I don't think I can
eddiethebus, ah, yes, the average holiday skier who never buys a lift pass, doesn't care about the lifts (I guess as you'll never use them without a pass), doesn't use the restaurants and doesn't ski on piste. Yesss, very, very average.
Sorry folks, I'm off. Dogs to bark, etc. |
thats my point, i'm not critising cmb from my point of view because as you've point out, i'm not interested in the things that your average holiday maker is interested in
you've mis-quoted me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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One size doesn't fit all but for me (with a young family) what was/is important is easy access to nursery slopes, not too much traffic/hassle, easy access to the resort, availability of family budget accomodation, easy meet ups to meet or swap with family members. Not important apres, challenging skiing. The one and half trips I've heard at Cham were great. But that was before kids and it would be near the bottom of my list currently (for a family trip). Eh ho.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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eddiethebus, now I'm (back and) really confused. (I didn't mis-quote you that badly).
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eddiethebus, I'm also unsure of your point. If you want miles of easy blues then sure, you are in the wrong resort. I think the pass is great value when you consider what you get. When choosing a resort I think the price of the pass is a vital consideration, never go for a cheap one unless you are only going to be there for an afternoon. I do feel that investment has been a little blighted by the impending contract end date, but now that's sorted and commitments given its time to look forward.
Chamonix's biggest problem in high season is that it is too popular! Keep up the good work.
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You know it makes sense.
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"The new forty year € 477 million plan" - I'll be 90
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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my point, as stated already, is the poor value that they offer to holiday makers who they ask to shell out hundreds (nearly a thousand) of pounds for a family lift ticket....
eddiethebus wrote: |
They charge more than just about anyone else, spend less on lifts than anyone else, bash less pistes than anyone else, groom the park and spend less investing on it that anyone else (even canned the DC contract because of insurance costs!) They even refuse to open early or close late depending on conditions because they dont have to.
IMO opinion they remain in business and gain repeat custom based enitirely on the elevation and terrain.
I just dont see how the actual service they provide could be considered value. |
IMO they take peoples money year on year without ever really putting anything back in and the resent publicity they are recieving isnt just deserved.
Lets not forget that the only reason the contract was terminated early and re-negotiated was because of the historical poor investment and value they were offering.
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Poster: A snowHead
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eddiethebus, under a new name, this is brilliant - I actually think you'ld both agree if you could figure out just what the other was really saying.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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By the way, I agree with you both. I think.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name wrote: |
eddiethebus, AlpineAddict,
They universally seem very happy - often they are on-piste only, or families, or with young children. Often times, when conditions aren't what I'd want (no precipitation but... cold and sunny) feedback is very positive about the on piste situation. |
No offence, but the only family I could recommend Chamonix to is the Griswalds. So many better places in the area for a family.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Juddernaut, oh, great, someone else I disagree to agree with?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chamonix = marmite
I love it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name wrote: |
Juddernaut, oh, great, someone else I disagree to agree with? |
That is OK. We don't want everybody loving the same place and filling it to the gunwales
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jbob, me too. Chamonix and Marmite.
Vegemite however is the Devil's work.
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I love Cham and vegemite
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Princess?, your are weird. Loving Cham is OK, but putting Vege-yuck on it is toast.
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jbob, Princess?, but why do you love it?
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