 Poster: A snowHead
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Cacciatore, http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/austria.pdf
Winter equipment – All Motorists have the legal obligation to adapt their vehicle to
winter weather conditions (see information below).
Between the 1st November and the 15th April vehicles must be fitted with winter tyres
(which must be marked M&S on the side walls and have a minimum tread depth of
4mm) or all-season tyres which must be marked M&S (mud and snow) and if roads
have a covering of snow, slush or ice outside these dates.
Theoretically snow chains on summer tyres can be used as an alternative to winter
tyres where the road is heavily covered with snow and no damage to the road
surface is caused by the snow chains. In practice, because road conditions and the
weather can not be predicted, use of winter tyres is effectively compulsory.
Note: It is the driver’s legal responsibility to carry the required winter equipment;
therefore, it is essential to check that it is included in any hire car.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kitenski, thanks - extremely helpful.
The M&S marking? Is this a standard marking on Winter tyres (seem to recall seeing a reference to this somewhere else on sH)?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cacciatore, honestly couldn't say if it's standard or not....
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A quick check on the tyres (  should have looked first) and they do have the M&S designation.
The thread which dealt with tyres seemed, to me, to be a bit ambiguous about what is acceptable. If one takes the above AA description "Between the 1st November and the 15th April vehicles must be fitted with winter tyres
(which must be marked M&S on the side walls and have a minimum tread depth of 4mm)", as correct, then I think I've just saved myself some cash.
If anyone has any definitive info, it would be appreciated.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cacciatore, my AA link is pretty clear to me, if you have M&S designation your fine...
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kitenski, yes, even the official Austrian info website links to the site above and quotes:
| Quote: |
| Winter tyres are recognised as such in law if they bear the markings "Matsch und Schnee" (German for "mud/slush and snow"), commonly abbreviated to: M+S, M.S. or M&S. |
However, there does seem to be some doubt from a respected source suggesting that the snow flake on a mountain sign (on the sidewall) is, in fact, the correct Winter tyre designation. I gather this has to do with the performance of the rubber in sub 7 degree C temperatures and All Season tyres not being tested/approved to the specification required to be a true Winter tyre.
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Apologies to the OP for taking this OT.
Could a mod perhaps move this last series of posts to a new thread "When is a Tyre a Winter Tyre in Austria" or sommat similar?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cacciatore, not sure why you are making this so hard.
It's simple, you posted the answer yourself.
Winter tyres are recognised as such in law if they bear the markings "Matsch und Schnee" (German for "mud/slush and snow"), commonly abbreviated to: M+S, M.S. or M&S.
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kitenski, I'm not.
However, the tyres on my car are not "Winter" tyres, but "all season", yet they carry the M+S marking. The doubt surrounds whether that constitutes a "legal" tyre in the Winter months in Austria.
The term "Winter Tyre", as quoted, could be ambiguous - it could just refer to the M+S qualifying them as such (hopefully), or perhaps assumes that "Winter Tyre" is a reference to a type rendering them as having a specification for performance at temperatures under 7 degrees C.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Cacciatore, you are IMHO over worrying yourself!!
Your tyres carry the M+S marking.
Therefore they are fine both by the Austrian and the AA definition.
What do you think casts any doubt at all on that? Nowhere does any definition say anything apart from they must have the Mud and Snow definition on the tyre.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kitenski, I think you may be slightly off target here. To be sure you have winters suitable for winter conditions you should be looking for the snowflake symbol inside a pictogram for a mountain. M + S in the UK does not always equate to Matsch und Schnee in the Alps. I had UK all-weather (M+S) tyres on my car when I first came out here and was clearly told by the Austrian police (after they had given me a tow) that they were not the same. I then bought new rims and had them fitted with legal winter tyres, I have not had a problem since!
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Thanks, Samerberg Sue - pretty much the concern I had around differing interpretation.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, I take my advice from the guys who could have fined but but didn't. My current tyres are marked M+S and have a mountain symbol with a snowflake in it. As have every set since I was told about the difference.
There is an awful lot of misinterpretation and misinformation out there. The AA site for example is consistently inaccurate about the laws. For example nowhere in the German Traffic Laws does it say you must have winter tyres. It does say that if you cause an obstruction or an accident because your tyres were not suitable for the prevailing weather conditions, you will be fined and maybe prosecuted if someone is injured.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I buy my winter tyres from my tyres.com, they are a German company and they come with M&S and ssowflake pattern, think they'll know the score, worth speaking/ emailing for clarity if anyone concerned? Will definitely use them again, great quality, cheaper than UK pricing and delivered in 48 hours, £50 fitted locally for 4 corners.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, is that link the Austrian government site or an unofficial one?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just as well Marks and Spencer don't sell own brand tyres 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well, I think I'm going to print and take the official Austrian site article, in German, just in case.
Besides, surely Austria is way too low for this to be a major concern
Markymark29, thanks for the recommendation.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| I buy my winter tyres from my tyres.com, they are a German company and they come with M&S and ssowflake pattern, think they'll know the score, worth speaking/ emailing for clarity if anyone concerned? Will definitely use them again, great quality, cheaper than UK pricing and delivered in 48 hours, £50 fitted locally for 4 corners. |
I got a better price from http://www.tyremen.co.uk for my Conti TS850's & Phill from there regularly posts about all things 'tyres' on this forum under the username tyremen. See http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=102130
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cacciatore, M&S (mud and snow) often + a snowflake are considered a 'winter' tyre . .. You can also get pure snow tyres.
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pretty sure you can't use snow chains on summer tyres in Austria as an alternative even as a tourist, though many still do.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kitenski, it is actually announcing that there will be a uniform and, more importantly, a protected labelling system for winter tyres as of 2017 following an agreement by the dealers and producers. There are some cheap Chinese summer compound tyres on the market with the M+S symbol on them. Here in Germany they have been pulled and declared illegal but you can bet in places where it is not such a critical decision, e.g. the UK or some of the southern EU countries, these are still available.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yup!
edit: blimey - quite wide and low profile though... bimmer?
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You know it makes sense.
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andy, well there not actually my exact tyre as they are buried in my garage, but that's what a google search to vredstein wintrax xtreme came up with 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Chaps - this is a simple one.
Some all-season tyres have a tread pattern that's better than others in the winter. *IF* such tyres have the M+S symbol they're legal. It's about size/profile properties, but not tested winter performance. Marking present = legal.
However, winter tyres of the type we think about have a special compound to improve performance in the cold. These tyres have the mountain snowflake symbol which is present after tested winter performance. If you're driving in harsh winter conditions, get yourself some of these.
So, if your tyres are "M+S" marked, you're in the clear. Personally, I'd have winters with the mountain snowflake, but that's beyond the legal minimum. Pretty much in the same way I never wear tyres below 3mm; the law is the bare minimum, not the standard.
All explained here (in German, so Google translate might be needed) http://tyre.marangoni.com/de/TheTyre/pneuInvernale.aspx
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Poster: A snowHead
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The other thing to bear in mind is that winter tyres with the snowflake on have generally much poorer performance on a dry road in terms of braking distance and grip during high speed cornering. With M and S marked tyres this difference is not so marked and I use a Yokohama Geolander all year round on my 4x4 with no problems and I live/drive in the Lakes during the summer, Highlands winter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Some good 'clarification' here. Looks like those of us with all season M+S marked tyres should be in the clear at least until 2017.
Thanks for the contributions and to Ray Zorro for splitting this topic out from another thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Stumbler, you just need to select English as the page language and you get a good translation - there is a drop down list of languages top right in the banner
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
Some good 'clarification' here. Looks like those of us with all season M+S marked tyres should be in the clear at least until 2017.
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Legally speaking yes. Do bear in mind though that in many parts of central Europe the locals will have Winter tyres (e.g. In Austria virtually everyone puts on winter tyres not just M&S rated). They will also have much more experience of driving in winter conditions. It isn't so much snow but ice that causes the problems and the M&S tyres don't have the small sipes or better suited tyre compound for such conditions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sage, professorial words.
Do have a strudel
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cacciatore, I'm sure you're getting confused by the S&M mark on your other rubber goods. 
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Isn't it C&A on other rubber goods, so you know which way round they go?
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FAQ
