Hi! Another "where shall I spend my winter" thread, which I hope Austria buffs can help with. Hopefully, the excessive info below will help narrow down the options. I'm a guy in his thirties, mainly into snowboarding (see below for level), but I'll also be looking to improve my skiing. I'll be on the hill around three days per week; and more often if the time from apartment to hilltop is very short.
I'm mainly considering Austria because it's sounds reasonably-priced and less industrialized, and you've got to narrow it down somehow. I've been a bit overwhelmed by the possibilities though! I've followed some threads on here such as this interesting one about Soelden and vicinity. From flipping through my "Snowboarding the world" book, Ishgl sounds fun, but is it possibly too over-the-top, even though I'm up for a certain amount of partying? Traditional campness probably isn't my scene so I'll guess I'll avoid Kitzbuhel. Is St Anton too much, in all senses? (It's a must-do at some point, of course!) What about the Zillertal valley?
[Somewhat tangentially, I'm also thinking about Serre Chevalier in the Southern Alps on the basis of very little really other than one or two recommendations and a relatively short drive there from Spain where I live.]
The mountain
*) Relatively low volume of people; not all lines tracked out by 9:45. I like a sense of wilderness, which often means moving to the lesser-known edges of the resort. That has to be balanced against the need for a place with a bit of social scene though!
*) I care much more about rideable area than number/kilometers of piste. I can find fun things to do in the smallest of resorts, but I'll only really be happy if there's a decent amount of relatively safe off-piste. I'm after that sense of freedom that comes with travelling through the beautiful environment. I love interesting terrain with lots of natural features. I'm happy with short hiking, and will probably want to get involved with increasingly long hiking / touring. I'm unlikely to hire guides very often if at all though, and will try to go with other buddies instead; so areas which are nothing but glacial aren't going to work for me.
*) I can only describe the difficulty level I'm looking for in terms of actual stuff I've done: I've spent the last two winters in Baqueira where I was pushed by the harder stuff and my level increased a lot. I'm very comfortable doing off-piste of red-piste or easy-black-piste steepness, and love both open faces and tree runs. But I get pretty nervous when stuff gets increasingly steeper; I'd like to work on that a bit this year whilst still having plenty of comfortable stuff to get stoked on. In the past I've had many great times in all parts of the Andorran resorts, but these days I find a lot of the lift-accessible mountain unchallenging although of course there are still some great, complicated bits which often involve a small bit of hiking. I've never done more advanced mountaineering and I'm not looking for that.
*) It doesn't have to be one of the "best resorts in the world" (though I don't object to them if they turn out to really be the best option); I plan to spend a large part of my life living in the mountains, and the meccas will still be there when I have a high enough level to get the most out of them! And the trouble with setting the bar too high at the start is that you might be less interested in the offbeat stuff later... I've absolutely loved my time in small places in the Pyrenees, but if I were used to mega-resorts then I guess they might seem limited (though I really can/do have fun in any resort anywhere if there are interesting features).
*) I'm not particularly interested in parks, though I've just started getting into jumping; I will do 360s this season!
*) Having just said that the resort doesn't need to be huge, use of a season pass that lets you try tons of different places would be pretty awesome, being something us folks from the Pyrenees can only dream about!
*) I'm not especially interested in other activities other than the sliding.
The town
*) Decent enough apartment/studio accommodation with Internet for the whole season. (Eg non-shared room in shared apt, or maybe I'll rent a whole apt and let out the extra room(s).)
*) Some social scene - doesn't need to be wild parties, but some bars with pool and non-cheesy music etc; I'm not particularly looking for "week's holiday" vibe.
*) I'll be mostly on my own, so it needs to be easy to meet people and make buddies to ride the hill with. Doesn't need to be a Brit scene.
*) I'll have a car there provided that parking (in-town, and on-hill) isn't a nightmare; so the place doesn't have to be ski-in, ski-out but it would be nice to occasionally have some beers on or at the foot of the mountain without worrying about driving home - something that's not really possible in the Pyrenees, hence its lack of apres-ski.
*) I'm pretty down-to-earth, so too much poshness is a bit of a turn-off, and probably makes things too expensive in any case!
*) Ideally reasonably pretty/traditional/non-industrialized town, but that's lower priority than most of the other points.
All thoughts and advice appreciated
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Somewhat tangentially, I'm also thinking about Serre Chevalier in the Southern Alps on the basis of very little really other than one or two recommendations and a relatively short drive there from Spain where I live
I pretty much fell in love with SC last year, mainly due to the ease at which you can get around to other areas with great off piste terrain. Def ticks your box for 'not all tracked out by 9.45' for sure.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Sounds like Serre Chevalier would quite suit you and not just because it's the closest to where you live. Especially as you have a car although that's not entirely necessary. There are several villages to choose exactly where you want to be based. Went there on a sH's bash a couple of seasons ago and to me it ticked a lot of your boxes. sH Hells Bells has an apartment there and knows all about the place.
It also has the added advantage of having the wonderful, timewarped, mountain wormhole of La Grave nearby. Within 30 minutes you can drive back to 1978 - course you won't be sold a lift ticket there unless you have excessive facial hair, a green headband and skis over 190cm long. One ski DVD you can view to check it out on is Steep.
I suspect the social scene there would be quite interesting - saw a few housetrucks here and there so there's bound to be more hidden away - and not entirely based on gnarly mountain freaks living under rocks.
Go the other way for about 45 mins or an hour and you can ski in Montgenevre which I think is in Italy and so coffee and food immediately leaps several grades upwards.
If you are seriously considering Austria then the Tirol Snow Card comes in to operation next week and covers you for most of the province (still not St Anton though). It would enable you to find accommodation anywhere along the A12 Inntal Autobahn axis and be in any of the areas within an hour or so. If you have not yet really any experience of Austria, this may well be a flexible way for you to start and then focus on a particular area once you know what you are looking for. you will find exceptional value for money in many of the non-resort towns. Try contacting Carolyn (a snowhead so you can PM her) in Niederau as she has some apartments for long-term rent.
Everyone drives to and from the slopes in a sense as far more skiers live and work in Austria than there are beds in resorts. Car parking is free and very well organised at every base station. There are masses of areas with fabulous off-piste, both lift served and otherwise, clarky999 is your best bt for getting to know local tourers off-piste groups in the Innsbruck area for example.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Samerberg Sue, is spot on for Austria. I don't think you can be the Tirol pass for value. 695 euro for 7.5 months and gives you the option of some pretty decent areas. There are so many areas that you could live in, it depends on what you want. I chose Mayrhofen because I knew the area, however knowing what I know now, I would also look at Innsbruck. You get the benefits of city life, however have really easy access to a lot of skiing.
Further East in Austria there are two great regional passes:
Kitzbuhler Alpen Allstar Card (www.allstarcard.at) covers 7 resorts around Kitzbuhel and Saalbach - with a car, you could be based in somewhere like Sct Johann or Fieberbrunn and drive out from there to the other resorts. The card costs €580 if paid for before 5th Dec, €650 after.
Salzburg Superski Card (www.salzburgersuperskicard) covers all the major resorts in Salzburgerland plus Kitzbuhel and some others (22 regions and 2550km of slopes) and is better value than the All Star Card (it covers almost all of the All Star resorts plus about 15 others) - €575 before 5th Dec, €645 after. Find somewhere central to stay, then drive out and explore.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
quinton, I have both and have been looking to move permanently to the Salzburg Super Ski Area, but finding accommodation at the right price in the best locations to move around is nigh on impossible. That's why I suggest Tirol for the first foray into Austrian skiing.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Hey.
Oetztal would be a fantastic place for a season, especially if you have a car! I really need to get round to exploring more of it. I can't remember if all the resorts are on the Tirol Snow Card, or if an Obergurgl/Soelden season pass covers all of them, you'd have to check. Soelden itself is a bit of a hole (though I've only seen it in summer), may be possible to find cheaper accommodation in Vent just up the road, though it's a lot quieter. There's some really fantastic terrain up there, and (based purely on my experiences at Kuhtai) less competition for pow than some places.
Ischgl has some really great skiing, though accommodation is probably expensive. The town itself is quite upmarket, though it's not hard to find more down to earth bars either. Given you'll be taking the car, probably worth looking for accommodation in Kappl or Galtuer, which should be cheaper, and likely quieter on pow days.
St Anton is fantastic, whether it's over the top depends on you! Certainly you can party hard every night of the week, but there are plenty of quiet, relaxed bars too, if you want to chill out somewhere other than your flat. It has some of the best terrain in Austria for sure, but the obvious stuff gets tracked very quickly. You can untracked most of the day on a pow day, but you'll need some local knowledge. It also requires care, even some of the commonly skied stuff has or can lead into very dangerous areas.
Samerberg Sue mentioned the Tirol Snow Card, which is ace - more than 80 resorts included, all over Tirol, so lots of variety. You could base yourself in a resort that is covered by it (somewhere in Zillertal, for instance) and day trip out whenever you fancied, or stay somewhere more central.
Normally I wouldn't really reccommend Innsbruck for a season, if it's a one-off thing you may as well make the most of having a large linked area right by your flat. You've already done a couple though, so maybe looking for a different experience, in which case it could work well. Basically a real city with plenty of stuff to do, surrounded by great skiing. Depending where you live you can be really close to the slopes (I'm a 5 minute walk from Nordkette, which though tiny accesses a lot of really good offpiste terrain, including two steep avi-controlled couloirs), or have around 5 within a 15-20 minute bus ride and another 15 or so within 30mins-1 hour on the bus or train (obviously less if you drive). There's a cheap season (well, year - with skiing form now until the end of June) pass called the Freizeitticket which covers 20-odd resorts (including 3 days in St Anton and Ischgl), you just have to sign in as a resident (simple form) to be able to buy it. Great central location to access a huge amount of epic offpiste, ridiculous amounts once you cant the touring options; after living here for a year (and spending 2-3 months a year here for the previous 3) I'm still only scratching the surface of the available terrain. Downside is it may be harder to find accomm for the season, the pm me if you're interested as a mate needs somewhere to take over his flat for the winter.
ANother option, which I haven't skied personally but continue to hear amazing things about, is Obertauern. Seemingly loads of great offpiste from mellow to serious gnar, less 'on the radar' than St Anton/etc so should have less competition for powder, and a more low key town. Could be just what you're after. Also very close to Schladming and parts of Ski Amade. Presumably on the Salzburg Super Ski pass, so you'd then be able to ski those and other places like Saalbach easily.
Saalbach itself wouldn't be a bad option either, the offpiste is a bit more low key than some places, but there's plenty to get at (and I think it's hosted freeride comps before). Large fun pisted area too, fun (and cheap) town with a good seasonaire community (go to Underbar at the bottom of the main street, really easy to get to know people as it's full of ski instructors/bar staff/reps/bums). Lots of piste skiers = relatively little competition for pow.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Pyremaniac, are you describing ste Foy? Seems like your description of ideal place for you comes very close to that (disclaimer, have never been but want to go because from what I here it is all the things you are wishing for)
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I live in Fieberbrunn in Tyrol and find it a very satisfactory centre for the east end of Tyrol (e.g. Kitzbühel, St. Johann, Steinplatte), west side of Salzburg (e.g. Saalbach-Hinterglemm, Hochkönig, Loferer Alm, Kitzsteinhorn) plus many more, all on the Salzburg Super Ski Card. Can't quite guarantee the social side but guess there is enough during the season. The skiing is great. Probably not the most expensive place too.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Awesome info, thanks everyone!
SC does indeed seem great, as does Sainte Foy (which I too have noted is a bit of a Resort X on here), but I think I've been swayed by the unbelievable Tirol Snowcard! The idea of using it as a way to check things out at the beginning is a great one; I'm pretty tempted to get over there almost immediately and rent some short-term accom to figure out where to base myself. (Can't believe there's some skiing to be had already ) Thanks for the advice to contact Carolyn, Sue - I'll be doing so.
Thinking on this some more, if the season is going to be 7 months perhaps it's better to live in a town where there's a bit of normal life. Ischgl, Soelden, Innsbruck and Mayrhofen (or close neighbours) seem like the most obvious choices. But it can sometimes actually be harder to meet people in larger places than in smaller ones though; anyone have any thoughts about that? There must be lots of foreigners living there so I guess there might be a little bit of a community to get involved in.
clarky999, tons of great advice and ideas, thanks mate! I'll be sending you a PM shortly.
googiew, what would be the key factors for you if choosing between Innsbruck and Mayrhofen?
Please do continue to throw in ideas!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Pyremaniac, All the skiing available on the Tirol Snow Card will be on glaciers for the time being, BUT that alone gives you a really wide choice: Hintertux, Stubai, Sölden, Pitztal being the most obvious ones. Hintertux has just opened the Sommerberg area as well as the Kaserer section, giving a quite large and varied amount of terrain for this time of year. Stubai is opening more and more of its terrain as the temperatures fall and there is more snowfall.
We have the opening races of the World Cup in 30 days on the Rettenbach Glacier above Sölden. I always now drive past that to the Tiefenbach Glacier and ski over to watch, so two distinctly different glacier areas there on one ticket. Tiefenbach is fairly blue in terms of its pistes , whereas the Rettenbach starts blue and then goes very black down the icefall!
Since I have been out here we have the first significant snowfalls on or around the first of October and it is looking like we could get some falls in the second week. We have a national holiday here in Germany on the 3rd, and on quite a few occasions this has seen snow over the past few years. It never stays at low levels but it always helps the glacier areas extend their areas.
Good luck and let us know when you are out here, I'm sure clarky and I can help point you in the direction of some good boarding even if we are both skiers!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I really like Mayrhofen, however with Innsbruck you also get the benefits of city life whilst still having loads of skiing on your door step. It is however a valid point that if you are only coming for the season that being in resort somewhere will be easier to make friends etc. I suppose I was commenting from my own position where I came out for a few months and then ended up staying. Although I do most of my work remotely I could probably do with being a bit closer to the airports etc. In fairness this is only really a summer problem, as once the snow arrives, work ends up taking a back seat anyway.
I think a consideration for you could be where you will actually be able to get decent accommodation. The problem with Mayrhofen is because it is so popular, the property owners are able to get very good and pretty regular income from week lets etc and so finding longer term accommodation can be tricky.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pyremaniac,
Quote:
I'm pretty tempted to get over there almost immediately and rent some short-term accom to figure out where to base myself
Do this! The Tirol Snowcard is valid from the 1st October. Ski on the glaciers, have a look around the towns and villages, try and get a feel for each place. I know that the villages might feel different in the winter, but you can get an idea of how touristy or busy it will be by counting the number of bars available!
My first thought when I saw your question and criteria was Tirol Snowcard and stay in Innsbruck, but then clarky999, who lives there said maybe not the best idea. Mayrhofen would be good, although a downside for me would be driving about 30 minutes simply to get out of the valley - so on the days you decide to explore other areas on your lift card you're looking at at least an hour drive.
I'm at other end of the Zillertal (I teach skiing in Hochfügen, which is part of Hochzillertal) which is good for getting around, but the social side isn't so good. Saying that, I guess any social scene is what you make it... A lot of the temporary ski instructors are Dutch students who seem to manage to find a social scene to suit them!
I'm finding it difficult to recommend one place to you as they all have their pros and cons - I reckon wherever you end up will be great!
Good luck with whatever you decide
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Pyremaniac, I suppose you're location may depend what you are planning to do with the other four days a week when you don't intend to be skiing?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I would definitely look to base yourself somewhere central in the Inntal rather than in one of the ski areas to be honest. I suggest Carolyn's place because I know she has accommodation that suits your requirements, but it is up a mountain road above Wörgl. It would be a good start as it appears you are not too familiar with Austria or where you want to ski/board. Looking for places in Mayrhofen would be expensive as SaraJ says. It is a prime area and owners can make more money renting by the week. Maybe look nearer to the north end of the valley where you can be quickly on to the A12 to investigate other areas.
Innsbruck is a really good base but you will most likely have to look at getting a room in a WG (Wohngesellschaft = Flat share) as it is a thriving university town. Other good towns to look at will be Kufstein, Wörgl, Jenbach, Schwaz, Wattens, Hall in Tirol, Zirl, Telfes, Imst, Landeck and of course many of the smaller places in between. But basing yourself now in one of Carolyn's apartments would give you a good base to explore what serves your needs best. She allows you to sub-let as well so going off to another area for a week or two and renting to mates is an option.
Sing out if you need any advice there are several of us based in and around the Inntal who will have enough personal experience of renting to help if there are any details you are not sure of. Renting is a very different game out here and is not considered just the province of poverty-stricken students who can be exploited by slum landlords. But this also means it is a wee bit more bureaucratic to protect both the tenant and the landlord.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
espri wrote:
I live in Fieberbrunn in Tyrol and find it a very satisfactory centre for the east end of Tyrol (e.g. Kitzbühel, St. Johann, Steinplatte), west side of Salzburg (e.g. Saalbach-Hinterglemm, Hochkönig, Loferer Alm, Kitzsteinhorn) plus many more, all on the Salzburg Super Ski Card. Can't quite guarantee the social side but guess there is enough during the season. The skiing is great. Probably not the most expensive place too.
Fieberbrunn itself doesn't look too shabby, must get over there sometime ....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Not much to add as so many many experts have said most of it but I would certainly back the idea of the Zillertal. It's got loads to offer (I'm going back again this year).
I'll second the Zillertal, it's got everything you need. I've been there for the past four years, going back again in December, and havnt found much to top it in twelve years in the mountains.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pyremaniac, I see you mentioned Soelden and that you were looking for "Some social scene - doesn't need to be wild parties, but some bars with pool and non-cheesy music etc". This seems a good excuse to post a link to a classic trip report by savaloy_joy on Soelden from a few years back.....
Googiew, thanks for the insight.
Samerberg Sue, thanks again for the advice! I'm figuring out that accommodation might be the hard part of this plan. I might well be PMing you when it gets down to the details.
nozawaonsen, I'll be working from home. A serious Internet connection is (pretty much the only) essential.
DB, sweet. Going from the Pyrenees to the Alps makes me feel like going from primary school to secondary school. (The Pyrenees really are lovely though.)
Is Kaltenbach a meaningful alternative to Mayrhofen? The hills it accesses looks pretty sweet, and its great that it's possible to ride back to base. (the_doc and others, I'm sort of heading in the Zillertal direction, as far as someone with literally no Alps experience beyond http://skimap.org/ can ). I don't mind too much about the driving to other places (in the Pyrenees, everything is driving) but it would be an added bonus to be able to jump easily on a lift for one or two early-morning or lunchtime runs on working days.
I'm getting over my initial child-like excitement about the Tirol card - 80 resorts, reeeally? That's more than one per day for me - but it does include a fair few places I'd like to check out so I think I'll go with that for this year. (Looking at the piste map I wonder whether I'll live to regret not taking up clarky999's suggestion of Obertauern despite its apparently short runs, but, along with Warth - which from what I've read on sH is another place that would be up my street and is inevitably going to become not only discovered, but overrun soon enough, due to a new connection with Lech - it's top of my list of places that are not included in the season pass that nevertheless I'll visit this year.)
Alastair Pink, . Another of SJ's posts is right up there in my list of funniest ever incongruous sH comments here (scroll to the bottom after reading the title and OP)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
Fieberbrunn itself doesn't look too shabby, must get over there sometime ....
Love to see you, DB - though I must admit, I haven't tried the line Drew Tabke took
After all it is free
After all it is free
Pyremaniac, Kaltenbach is a good option and not only can you ski right back down into the valley, the base station is close enough to the train station to allow you to walk from the end of the valley runs to the train. This means you can easily move between locations.
My only concern is whether you will find an affordable apartment with the internet access you need. One of the things the Auhof offers is limitless fast internet as part of the rental (Carolyn's website is www.auhof.co.at by the way). Having an English landlady/landlord would also be useful for you if you are not familiar with Austrian ways or if do not speak German.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
espri wrote:
Love to see you, DB - though I must admit, I haven't tried the line Drew Tabke took
It's a deal. We should really give it a go - whoever goes first, the other one rings emergency services.
Alternatively we could come up with an excuse not to do it (keeps what's left of our rad internet skiing reputatioin intact) and then ski something a tad less life threatening then grab a hot chocolate with rum and a germknödel.
Another +1 for Kaltenbach, probably my favorite bit of the Zillertal, hits the spot for good piste and lots of opportunity for dodging off the piste into all sorts of lovely powder holes without heading into the back of beyond.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
OK, numerous estate agents in the Zillertal e-mailed. Fingers crossed. I'm simultaneously pursuing Innsbruck as an option. (clarky999, PM sent!) If things don't work out with those, I'll widen the net. With luck I might be able to line up some concrete viewings or whatever before going on a reccy asap.
BTW, do any of you guys know of any classified ad websites or similar where people advertize accommodation more informally? A Craigslist kind of thing. I didn't turn up much when searching.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Well, in the end some complications came up which mean it's better for me to stay local in the Pyrenees again this year. But all the info from you guys has been great, and I reckon both Serre Che and the Zillertal might well be on for next couple of seasons. It's also helped me understand what's involved in sorting things out in the Alps - and when to start - so I'll be better prepared on that front too!
And of course, look me up if you find yourselves near to the Pyrenees!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pyremaniac, that's a shame dude, hope you have a good winter in the Pyrenees anyway.
Yup, that's where I've spent my last two seasons. Don't shout about it too loud though, we like our mountains empty . After all, everyone knows that the Pyrenees don't get much snow...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pyremaniac, Just like Austria then which the whole world and it's mother knows is too low for snow!
Pyremaniac, My favorite place to ski for sure. I would be sorely tempted to get back there for another season but also fancy Austria.
Do you know the guide they mentioned ?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
AndAnotherThing.., no; I got onto the very edges of that community last year but I haven't heard of him. BTW, do you recognize the slope that's in the screenshot of the video above? I'm wondering whether it's Bagergue but the village looks too big.
Are you going to be in the Pyrenees this year? I'm thinking about doing a week or two exploring the N'Py resorts including the Pic du Midi.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Pyremaniac, I think it is Bagergue, the tree's along the road look familiar, but I've not seen it from that angle before. I guess the camera guy must have hiked up from the cafe to the ridge.
No plans as yet but it's unusual not to make it there at some point during the season. I'll drop you a PM if I do. I'd love to do a road trip and explore properly.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) Thanks for the advice to contact Carolyn, 
). I don't mind too much about the driving to other places (in the Pyrenees, everything is driving) but it would be an added bonus to be able to jump easily on a lift for one or two early-morning or lunchtime runs on working days.
. Another of SJ's posts is right up there in my list of funniest ever incongruous sH comments 
