 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I'm considering using a hydration pack when I'm away this season (Feb). I was wondering if anyone here uses them, and if so, have you had any issues with the pipe freezing up?
Cheers,
Mark
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have one with an insulated tube, helps but doesn't cure it. The thing to do is just to blow the water back into the bag once you've finished drinking.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I use a bladder in my standard pack when I expect to be skiing hard for most of the day, or touring; much more convenient than a bottle. On a couple of occasions the water has got a bit 'crunchy,' but it's never frozen up completely. My backpack strap has a proper insulated sleeve for it, which may help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm a blow back fan as well (and have a neoprene insulated strap - Osprey). But I find it all a bit of a faff to be honest.
I usually just carry a bottle and have a slurp on the chair
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have an Osprey (Kode 22) with tube going through the strap as well. I find it great and it's never frozen. I use a Source 3 litre hydration unit. Great system.
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I have some big buildings that are normally at the top, middle or bottom of a piste... they store a wide range of hydrating liquids!
When touring I'v enever had a problem of the bladder freezing. This year I'm going to use some insulation for the hose.
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It's generally the mouth piece that freezes as the insulation tends not to fully cover the mouthpiece. Stick the tube down your hot and sweaty back under your clothing and it will thaw out.
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I never go out without one - yes it freezes at times but it will defrost - for me everyone should have one - by the time you become dehydrated it is too late to do anything about it and it can be quite serious especially when some people have been partaking in alcohol the previous evening.
I also take rehydration salts with me which I use regularly (this may be over the top)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've got the Camelbak Tycoon - well insulated pipe inside a sleeve which zips up completely. Easy to access and not had any problems with freezing. On really cold days I do tend to blow the pipe clear after drinking though, just in case.
I like skiing with it now I've got it - so convenient, especially if you're a little hungover 
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Thanks for the replies.
I'll get an insulated pipe I think!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Adding a packet of electrolyte salts or whatever they are called may also help:
1) Better re-hydration and alleviate the loss of minerals through sweat
2) Lower freezing temperature
3) Some like the taste, and thus drink more/more often
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's lot of myths about hydration.
Electrolytes don't do anything. By the time you've lost enough salt through respiration and sweat for it to affect your body, you'll be suffering from far more serious problems. Also, even if you did lose that much salt from your system, you absorb so little from electrolyte drinks that you'd risk dilutional hyponatremia or over-hydration long before you'd actually replaced those salts.
Also, drink when you're thirsty. The notion that if you feel thirst that it's too late, is outdated.
Professor Tim Noakes is one of the most prolific researchers in this field, this article pretty much covers it all.
http://www.irunfar.com/2012/08/waterlogged-part-ii-trials-questions-and-suggestions-regarding-hydration-and-ultramarathons.html
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I think nearly all packs now have the ability to accept a bladder and run a tube to somewhere near your mouth.
I make a point of drinking a couple of litres through a day (from waking up to going to bed) when I'm away. if nothing else it helps with hangovers 
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You know it makes sense.
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And they will freeze up if you don't blow water out of the pipe after you have a drink; whether or not the pipe is lagged.
But you need to remember to do that after a fall too; which I usually forget to do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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feef,
I've found salt helps (even Noakes isn't sure see red text below). A steady increase of sugar too = Massive bag of peanut M&M's. 
Before exercise I find the colour of my urine (too dark = dehydrated) to be a better indicator than if I'm thirsty or not.
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Through it all, here is what the lessons of Waterlogged, and a decade-plus of research at Western States, have shown us:
1.Drink to thirst! Drink to thirst! If seventy years of research, and a 400+ page review of it by Tim Noakes in Waterlogged, can be distilled to three words, those are it. Don’t fear dehydration. Even if you become deficient enough to impair performance, water is quickly absorbed and any ill effects are short-lived. But over-hydrating can take hours – or days – to reverse. Drink to thirst!
2.Keep the stomach turned on and the calories streaming. Food is one substance that the body easily deals with in excess (the obesity epidemic is ample proof of that). Individualize: eat what works for you. Unlike water (and salt), carbohydrates are much slower acting and, when in deficit, can be very slow to replace. Keep the calories flowing!
3.Salt probably helps – we just don’t know why. It’s not because of blood sodium. But as Dr. Noakes theorizes, there might be a brain or neurological action wherein salt improves performance. We just don’t know for sure yet.
4.Be minimalist, especially with the things the body doesn’t easily handle: water and salt. Most of us train with minimal salt and water, even on long runs. Thus, it doesn’t make sense to radically and regimentally increase these things in an ultra. Listen to your body!
I hope these works have been as impactful and helpful to you as they have for me. Use science to fuel your passions, but never stop that “experiment of one.”
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Poster: A snowHead
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Vodka will lower the freeze level too 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've got a couple of camelbaks both with insulated sleeves and both sit inside the insulated arm of the rucksack but also in the arm is a small mesh pocket to hold one of those self heating heat pads, not that I've needed to use one though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| feef wrote: |
There's lot of myths about hydration.
Electrolytes don't do anything. By the time you've lost enough salt through respiration and sweat for it to affect your body, you'll be suffering from far more serious problems. Also, even if you did lose that much salt from your system, you absorb so little from electrolyte drinks that you'd risk dilutional hyponatremia or over-hydration long before you'd actually replaced those salts.
Also, drink when you're thirsty. The notion that if you feel thirst that it's too late, is outdated.
Professor Tim Noakes is one of the most prolific researchers in this field, this article pretty much covers it all.
http://www.irunfar.com/2012/08/waterlogged-part-ii-trials-questions-and-suggestions-regarding-hydration-and-ultramarathons.html |
Possibly, and possibly not on hydration - see DB's post... what is NOT in doubt is that water with salts (any salts) will freeze at lower temperature than pure water; more salts, lower temp.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Or to put it another way adding salt provides b ugger all benefit in hydration and highly speculative and unproven other benefits.
For most purposes having a hydration pack for the average piste skier adds nothing but weight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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T Bar, entirely agree with your conclusion. Not sure about the premise: freezing temperature will lower.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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T Bar,
If you searched the Internet I dare say one could probably find studies for and against salt with nothing really conclusive. Salt works for me so I use it.
I use my hydration pack mainly for ski touring and mountain biking but I will also use it also on the rare occsassions I go piste only skiing. Why? So that I'm not waisting time stood in queue at a mountain restaurant when I'm thirsty and then have to pay over €3 for a drink of cordial. The Hydration pack helps me rehydrate at my pace when I'm thirsty throughout the day.
Each to their own but they are probably very useful for the average British tourist skier who is having to deal with the dehydration effects of altitude, suddenly exercising for many hours per day and the beers he/she had the night before.
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| Quote: |
Each to their own but they are probably very useful for the average British tourist skier who is having to deal with the dehydration effects of altitude, suddenly exercising for many hours per day and the beers he/she had the night before.
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Probably very useful to everyone full stop. Most of us drink nowhere near enough water each day; something like 50% of people in 'the West' are chronically dehydrated. Get tired and hungry a lot? Just drink water. Good few litres a day, and especially for skiing/other sports, you'll really notice the increase in endurance.
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DB,
If the skier is spending his time getting pissed I am a bit sceptical that he will look after his hydration pack enough to ensure it is clean they are a potential source of bugs. Taking a water bottle in your back pack and taking the odd swig on chairs in queues or when waiting is not difficult amd you don't have the hassle of the pipe freezing. You really don't need to keep imbibing fluid at all times.
oldmancoyote,
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Not sure about the premise: freezing temperature will lower.
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All solutes will depress freezing point, it's a common way to measure osmolarity.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999,
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Probably very useful to everyone full stop. Most of us drink nowhere near enough water each day; something like 50% of people in 'the West' are chronically dehydrated. Get tired and hungry a lot? Just drink water. Good few litres a day, and especially for skiing/other sports, you'll really notice the increase in endurance.
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Dear lord, this myth keeps on coming back most peoples kidneys work just fine and they are not dehydrated.
Getting fit increases endurance.
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| DB wrote: |
3.Salt probably helps – we just don’t know why. It’s not because of blood sodium. But as Dr. Noakes theorizes, there might be a brain or neurological action wherein salt improves performance. We just don’t know for sure yet.
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Only probably, and even then, that maintains my own comment that it's NOT doing anything for blood sodium levels.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| T Bar wrote: |
clarky999,
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Probably very useful to everyone full stop. Most of us drink nowhere near enough water each day; something like 50% of people in 'the West' are chronically dehydrated. Get tired and hungry a lot? Just drink water. Good few litres a day, and especially for skiing/other sports, you'll really notice the increase in endurance.
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Dear lord, this myth keeps on coming back most peoples kidneys work just fine and they are not dehydrated.
Getting fit increases endurance. |
Kidneys might well work fine, but if you don't drink enough water you get tired sooner and more often. And feel hungry more often. Anecdotal obv, but realising this made a big difference for me, even just in everyday life/working/etc.
Getting fit works better with better eating, sleeping, drinking habits.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 27-10-13 22:32; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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clarky999, If t works for you great and far be it for me to tell you otherwise however there has been a fair amount of evidence accumulated to suggest that it is a myth as far as the population as a whole is concerned.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| DB, If the skier is spending his time getting pissed I am a bit sceptical that he will look after his hydration pack enough to ensure it is clean they are a potential source of bugs. Taking a water bottle in your back pack and taking the odd swig on chairs in queues or when waiting is not difficult amd you don't have the hassle of the pipe freezing. You really don't need to keep imbibing fluid at all times. |
IMO with bottles you'll need a backpack that won't be very flat, so there's the hassle of messing around will a rucksack and bottles on the lift while trying to make sure you don't drop a glove or a ski pole. A Hydration pack is flat so you can leave it on during the lift ride and leave the gloves on. Only needs one Hand and you can hold your ski poles in the other. The bottles need cleaning too, easier to clean a hydration pack with a few denture cleaning tablets than mess around with bottles.
People will have preferences for either but it's their decision not yours.
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You know it makes sense.
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DB,
I completely agree that the decision is at the individuals discretion.
If you think fannying around with denture cleaning tablets is easier than cleaning a bottle I will not try and tell you otherwise.
I cannot say I have ever found drinking out of a bottle a difficult task though I appreciate it may stretch some people.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 27-10-13 22:18; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| feef wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
3.Salt probably helps – we just don’t know why. It’s not because of blood sodium. But as Dr. Noakes theorizes, there might be a brain or neurological action wherein salt improves performance. We just don’t know for sure yet.
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Only probably, and even then, that maintains my own comment that it's NOT doing anything for blood sodium levels. |
I read "probably" as greater than a 50% chance. For me it seems to help retain water be it during mountain biking, ski touring or boxing training. I drink a lot more than others but am not running to have a pee every five minutes. It also appears to prevent cramps and avoid that "down" feeling.
Likewise, wether people take salt or not is their decision.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| T Bar wrote: |
DB,
I completely agree that the decision is at the individuals discretion.
If you think fannying around with denture cleaning tablets is easier than cleaning a bottle I will not try and tell you otherwise.
I cannot say I have ever found drinking out of a bottle a difficult task though I appreciate it may stretch some people. |
Maybe you want to take the rucksack off, get the bottle out, take a sip and then put it all back but I'm there to ski / ski tour and not fanny about like a Mavis. But if that suits you - each to his own. 
PS Bladder cleaning is dead easy. Fill it with water, drop in a few tablets and leave for 30 mins or so then rinse out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB,
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PS Bladder cleaning is dead easy. Fill it with water, drop in a few tablets and leave for 30 mins or so then rinse out.
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You have not got my memory remembering to get your denture cleaning tablets is not easy.
I used to have a bladder and found it a faff I find it easier to have a water bottle.
I always take my pack off on lifts anyway but only drink when thirsty so don't usually need to drink outside the occasional snack/meal stop.
Though I appreciate it is different when touring and on my rare ventures out on skins will sometimes stop for a breather and a drink.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I use my camelback for cycling walking and skiing. But cleaning isn't an issue; I wait until the growth in the tube covers the full length before it gets a blast with the cleaning fluid. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| T Bar wrote: |
DB,
[snip]
oldmancoyote,
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Not sure about the premise: freezing temperature will lower.
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All solutes will depress freezing point, it's a common way to measure osmolarity. |
My point exactly, given that the OP's question had to do with freezing...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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oldmancoyote, fair enough I didn't read the preceding post properly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This is my preference for a hydration pack... Sloe gin doesn't freeze until about -20C
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FAQ
