 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello there Snowheads!
I am a Design Engineering student from Loughborough University in the UK.
My team and I have been set the task of designing a security system (Most likely a lock or storage device) that keeps your equipment safe whilst you're not using it!
We'd be grateful if you could give 1 minute of your time today to answer this short survey!
Any suggestions or past experience left in a comment would also be greatly helpful!
Thankyou 
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/s.asp?sid=3k2vpvx3v6u3tmx349420
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Done! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Done, fewer flaws in the survey structure than the usual student submission!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Done - the answers to "How often do you go Skiing/Snowboarding" seems a bit limited depending what you want from the survey - I would have imagined that the more trips people have the more inclined to buy a product - apart from that nice survey esp the thought of ski boot recognition
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do you ski or snowboard? well as of last week I do both. Portability is non negotiable as to be any use a device like that needs to portable so you can use it on the mountain.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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LOUGHdesign, comment - your survey mentioned portability - IMO portability is very important. For me if it won't fit comfortably in a pocket it won't get carried. If it isn't carried it won't be used and anything that won't be used isn't worth buying.
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Done. I assume that 'when did you first go skiing?' meant what age rather than how many years ago, and 'how many times do you go each year' is supposed to be how many weeks?
No point at all in somehting that isn't portable. No point in something that's integrated into the ski; I have too many ski, I want to buy just one product to work with all of them.
Would be interesting if you can find a way to secure the poles too, I've twice had poles stolen.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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anarchicsaltire, Oh, I know it was, I just wanted to emphasise the point to the OP as I think it is one of the most important things to consider.
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Done. GPS integration...interesting idea. Although why restaurants can't afford simple lockable racks is beyond me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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done, and a useful idea, i hope the project goes well
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Last few years I've been skiing only once a year (but was for 18 weeks both times...)
A better question might be how many days/weeks do you ski per year?
Have done survey 
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ALQ, I liked the concept of a wire which activated an audible alarm when it was cut.
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You know it makes sense.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Would be interesting if you can find a way to secure the poles too, I've twice had poles stolen. |
I have a lock that secures poles.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rjs, link or picture please !
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seeing as my friend has had his leki World Cup trigger poles stolen twice ! Maybe you could design something for him, I'm sure he'd buy it !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think that if you want to prevent the theft of ski poles you just need to design them with a hole through the handle or maybe fashioned into the bottom of the grip then you can pass a lock through them. NB. this idea is hereby first logged as her IP by Megamum on 28th October 2013
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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or just take your poles in with you?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is what I have.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We understand there are minor problems with the survey, so we thank you ever so much for your understanding and for your replies guys!
| Quote: |
LOUGHdesign, comment - your survey mentioned portability - IMO portability is very important. For me if it won't fit comfortably in a pocket it won't get carried. If it isn't carried it won't be used and anything that won't be used isn't worth buying.
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Megamum, finding the balance between portability and security is one of our primary concerns at the moment!
As davkt pointed out, most users are going to want to take this up into the mountains to lock up their gear; the only problem is, what do you lock your equipment to up in the mountains?!
I've suggested some kind of clamp that rendered the ski's useless to a thief. A big robust clamp, however, may not be the most portable of devices..
We're gonna have to start thinking outside of the box!
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To be honest, I had never realised ski theft was much of a problem anyway. Bearing in mind the hundreds of pairs of skis left outside a restaurant all day the actual incidence of theft is, I imagine, extremely low.
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LOUGHdesign, if I have nothing to lock the skis to I rely on creating the biggest most unweildy bundle that I can create with all the skis I have cable locked together. I suppose another alternative might be a Dye release cannister that is going to smoother the thief and the skis if they try to remove it (would have to be activated from within the cable if it was cut though). I think all you have to create is a deterent and a thief will look for an easier option. Maybe some way of locking the skis together in a cross shape with the bindings would also make them unweildy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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lol @ the cross shape - be fun getting thru turnstiles and on the gondola with them.
I know several that have had skis stolen. 1 from racks outside restaurant by the bus stop. another from somewhere remote relative to the hotel, but managed to borrow a pair of skis to get back.
Yes it is probably low compared to the massive number of skis outside a restaurant, but it's not zero, and it's not negligible.
One thing not mentioned on the questionnaire... my deterrent is to avoid leaving skis in racks near the top of gondolas or cable cars, and prefer to find restaurants where realistically you need to ski away from (and my skis need tools to adjust bindings).
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perhaps a lock on the binding that stops it engaging if locked, wont stop someone carrying them away, but would stop someone skiing away in.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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How about if all bindings had a standard security fitment, kind of like the Kensington standard on computer gear? I know it'd be new and you'd have trouble getting every manufacturer to include it, but open standards and all that it could be done.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's not always theft though, if you're on rental skis the incidence of someone simply skiing off with the wrong set of rental skis is surprisingly high.
My favourite was the bloke who'd rented a pair of BBRs, then came in to complain to us that his boots didn't seem to be clipping in.
He'd picked up a pair of bright pink ladies skis!
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You know it makes sense.
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On the mountain I only take my skis off at places only accessible on skis just in case, even that ski theft is not that common in Switzerland. But I had poles lifted once - I guess someone broke his and borrowed mine - they were not even that fancy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I looked at Ski security a few years ago, and found that the deterrent factor was higher than the physical ability to steal the skis, locks cables and the like can be cut or
In other words the organised theft which happens mostly in France is done to re sell the skis, if the thief sees a deterrent on the skis i.e. something that makes it just about impossible to re sell them, then they will leave them alone and pick another pair.
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No point in something that's integrated into the ski; I have too many ski, I want to buy just one product to work with all of them.
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Well if all the ski manufactures adopted the same system and had it built into the ski it may work, or available as an after market system, the big problem with this however is getting the manufactures to adopt one system.
Technology is just about there now which it wasn't a few years ago, and the other conclusion I came to was that this system is not something you can sell to the general public it has to be free, and the organisation running it should be a non profit company, other wise the ski companies will never go for it and just do there own thing.
Good luck with the survey and the project
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Poster: A snowHead
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That's a key point here, a lot of theft is actually just idiocy. So to combat people taking the wrong hire pair you could just have an extendable, locking plate that goes in the bindings to stop people clipping in (think low profile shoe tree) . Wouldn't stop someone walking off with them of course.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Done!
I had a look at the very few statistics I can find. In one particular year Austria suffered 4,700 thefts of skis/boards from a total of 50 million skier days. That equates to one theft in every 10,000 skier days. Taking a rough guess at each skier skiing 7 days per annum (Austria has 66% foreign skiers on their slopes) that equates to a risk of 1:1500 for each skier. In my book that is not a risk worth worrying about.
Having said that, I do split and swap my skis with other members of the party. No idea why. So... it does imply that even if the risk is extremely small people are prepared to take some precautions against theft/loss.
IMO opinion the greatest risk is someone inadvertently taking the wrong skis by mistake. This is a far greater issue but one that can be solved with a marker pen and a bit of duct tape (if you can be bothered).
The logistics of actually stealing skis are not that simple. Unless you are stealing them from a bar back in the resort then the thief will, in most cases, need skis to get to the restaurant only to steal your skis before carrying them back down the mountain, often on his shoulder. Neither easy to do, nor inconspicuous. And all for what? A second-hand pair of skis with limited resale value.
So.... (in case anyone still has the energy to follow my ramblings) what solutions might work?
GPS - Doubtful it would work. A ski is a pretty hostile environment for technology.Batteries get cold, need recharging, and even if it did work then skis are usually travelling too fast (on snow or on a roof rack) to be useful or else in a ski locker with no signal.
I agree with livetoski, A deterrent is the most effective thing. A visible mark on the skis is pretty much all you need.
I don't agree with livetoski, about this bit....
| Quote: |
the other conclusion I came to was that this system is not something you can sell to the general public it has to be free, and the organisation running it should be a non profit company, other wise the ski companies will never go for it and just do there own thing.
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This simply isn't a big enough issue to set up a separate non-profit organisation, and if the public aren't prepared to pay for it then why should the ski companies. After all, they don't care if their skis get stolen. They just get to sell more.
Interesting design project and I suspect your final solution will be something like a cable lock. That seems to be the most effective/proportionate solution. However, as a business proposition........ I'm out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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albinomountainbadger, Chasing your low profile shoe tree - I think it wouldn't actually need to be as big as that. How about strong flat profile roughly triangular 'circle' of metal that you put over the 'toe' end of the binding. You then bring the ends together and lock the thing in place across where the boot toe fits into the binding? Most bindings seem to have a common-ish shape to the toe end and there should be enough room to give the metal a slight curve so it can't be plucked off the binding easily. I carry a coiled cable in my pocket and envisage that such a thing would be smaller than what I carry. You might even get away with just deploying on one ski only unless someone can steal loads of single skis that match.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| The logistics of actually stealing skis are not that simple. Unless you are stealing them from a bar back in the resort then the thief will, in most cases, need skis to get to the restaurant only to steal your skis before carrying them back down the mountain, often on his shoulder. Neither easy to do, nor inconspicuous. And all for what? A second-hand pair of skis with limited resale value. |
I regularly ski around with another pair of skis on my shoulder when I am at races. Nobody has ever questioned whether they are mine, sometimes they are not even mine if I am coaching someone else.
I had a pair of skis and poles stolen in Meribel, I suspect by a gang just grabbing everything that they saw as my stuff had no resale value, the skis were 10yo with one broken binding and the poles were bent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, How would that stop anyone picking up the ski and walking off with it or putting it over their shoulder? A deterrent I'll grant you, but not much better than a splash of paint.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rjs,
| Quote: |
I had a pair of skis and poles stolen in Meribe
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Out of interest, where were they stolen from?
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another thing...
My insurance policy states that it only pays out if "forcibly removed", and I'm sure it's not unique in that respect. So paint, stickers, GPS trackers and rendering the skis not very useful are all only deterrents. Physically locking the skis to a rack is basically a requirement if you want the insurance to pay out.
So... racks that either have locks installed, or current style racks with an extra horizontal bar or two (lower down, near the bindings) so there's somewhere to put cable lock around. Otherwise it;s a fight for the 4 corners of the rack.
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| livetoski wrote: |
I looked at Ski security a few years ago, and found that the deterrent factor was higher than the physical ability to steal the skis, locks cables and the like can be cut or
In other words the organised theft which happens mostly in France is done to re sell the skis, if the thief sees a deterrent on the skis i.e. something that makes it just about impossible to re sell them, then they will leave them alone and pick another pair.
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ha genius - ski anti-theft device - a bottle of Tippex/Nail varnish and instructions on how to write F**k Off in big letters.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andy, Or turn your skis upside down?
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fatbob, some ski tech colleagues of mine once carved the words 'gay boy' into the white bases of a pair of skis, and filled the gouges with standard black. Pretty sure if those skis are still going, so is that 'detterent'.
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FAQ
