 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I assume SWIMBO means wife but you gotta put us out of our suspense and tell us what is stands for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SWIMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Paul_Bottomley, TBH DIY is no big deal to sort. Fly, train or drive, it's your choice. There are plusses and minuses to each. If you want those spelling out let us know. Or if you want any advice on sorting those out let us know. Booking an apartment can be done either through the tourist office/local agency or a Brit agency. Transfers are easy to sort out if needed. Again anybody on here can advise. To get a lift pass - quite often can be booked at the same time as the apartment (often at a discount) or walk in to the lift pass office on arrival. Equipment just walk into the shop on arrival. Can be booked in advance if preferred. Again people on here can advice.
For 3 people (if you are happy staying somewhere with say twin beds and a sofa bed you should find something for 500 Euros. Flights/train - big variance - but perhaps £100 to £200 per person. Ski pass prices can be obtained from the resort websites. Looking at 250 Euros per person for the resorts you mention IIRC. Anyway all in all, you are going to be halfing the £2500 you are talking about.
La Plagne or Tignes are perfectly good options. Do you have a preference for travel? When you say nice apartment, what do you mean?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 11-09-13 0:20; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Paul_Bottomley, DIY isn't difficult. Most resorts you can pre-book skis/passes etc, so you only have to worry about flights transfers and accommodation. If you find some decent looking accommodation, ask on here. Someone will have stayed there. Accommodation will be more expensive at Christmas and midterm, but all the other costs are fairly stable. TO's get stuck in as they need to balance out the slow weeks.
p.s. - Welcome to Snowheads. Most expensive mistake you ever made 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you wanted to drive yourselves to the Alps it saves a lot of hassle with transfers, gives you more flexibility about where to stay, and personally I find throwing everything in the car is a lot easier than organising yourselves for flights. You can stock up on less expensive food in a valley supermarket, or even take some from home. On occasions (before children so skis went inside car) we have hired kit from the UK to save time at resort but that means no flexibility to exchange it during the week and I have no idea of the current state of ski kit hire in the UK
Ski passes as said above can be pre booked but generally we just buy ours when we get there, there is usually an obvious kiosk. For some of our party we have often gone for just day passes, some days some resorts half day passes even, because it gives you the flexibility to do other things and if the weather is bad and you don`t ski, well at least you have not paid for it! It also gives you the option in many places of buying just the local area lift pass for the first couple of days then more expansive ones as your confidence grows. However if you are determined to ski every minute of every day whatever the weather (or you are committed to ski school) a weeks set pass may work out cheaper.
If you drive to a resort and are unsure of how to go about anything you want to do, stop off at the local tourist office where there is always an English speaker who is able to tell you the what, where`s and whys! (For example what are the types of lift passes available)
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If you wanted to drive yourselves to the Alps it saves a lot of hassle with transfers, gives you more flexibility about where to stay, and personally I find throwing everything in the car is a lot easier than organising yourselves for flights. You can stock up on less expensive food in a valley supermarket, or even take some from home. On occasions (before children so skis went inside car) we have hired kit from the UK to save time at resort but that means no flexibility to exchange it during the week and I have no idea of the current state of ski kit hire in the UK
Ski passes as said above can be pre booked but generally we just buy ours when we get there, there is usually an obvious kiosk. For some of our party We have often gone for just day passes, some days some resorts half day passes even, because it gives you the flexibility to do other things and if the weather is bad and you don`t ski, well at least you have not paid for it! It also gives you the option in many places of buying just the local area lift pass for the first couple of days then more expansive ones as your confidence grows. However if you are determined to ski every minute of every day whatever the weather (or you are committed to ski school) a weeks set pass may work out cheaper.
If you drive to a resort and are unsure of how to go about anything you want to do, stop off at the local tourist office where there is always an English speaker who is able to tell you the what, where`s and whys! (For example what are the types of lift passes available)
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I think Layne's prices are optimistic for Christmas, booking now. I have an apartment in a small French resort and have too many people wanting to come out at Christmas to fit in - and am having major difficulties booking another apartment. Everything half decent is either booked already or very expensive (or even both). And I am not talking about anything fancy.
I do agree though that DIY is easy enough if you've been skiing before.
Google "all inclusive ski holidays pierre et vacances" and you will find masses of offers, in just about all the French resorts, for prices which include accommodation and the ski stuff. Then you have to add travel on the top and, for 3 of you, self-drive is almost certainly the cheapest way of doing that. If the big resorts are too expensive try somewhere like Valloire - absolutely plenty of skiing for a week and less Brit-infested than the big names.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you do not fancy driving there is always the train to Bourg st Maurice. You may have to change stations in Paris which is a bit of a hassle if you have lots of kit, but then you just walk out of the station in Bourg and get the bus. All in all about as much hassle as getting a train anywhere in the UK.
As far as I can see the advantages of going through a tour operator are:
1/ You get met at the airport and someone tells you which bus to get on to the resort
2/ Someone will point out your accommodation in the resort.
3/ Someone will take you to the ski hire shop then abandon you.
Actually 2/ does not always happen. I have been abandoned for hours at night with a small child in a car park in st Anton with no idea where the chalet was and similarly dumped in Val Thorens with a finger saying saying your apartment is up there.
pam w, There are plenty of small apartments in Les Arcs for 3 people over the Christmas week for 550 euro, but for an extra 200 to 300 euro you can get a 2 room apartment of over 30 m2 (not mine). There are still lots of vacancies for the new year week, but then again it is still very early for bookings.
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Endorse what others have said about DIY. It takes a bit of organising but is easily doable. I don't know about others on here but I find there is something really unique and atmospheric about driving out.
If you do decide to drive and want to save money and time, you can take lots of food with you. It's a shame to miss out on French produce but taking your essentials with you; tea, coffee, sugar etc. saves quite a bit. also if you want good apres ski fill up food like currys you can take your spices or ingredients for Chinese meals etc. One thing I do is cook a few meals to last the first few days, freeze them and put them in a cool bag with lots of freezer packs. They'll still be frozen when you get there and will save cooking for a while. With 3 of you in the car, there'll be loads of room.
You'll have no problem if you want a complete breakdown of what you need to do and hwere to get things.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You'll have no problem if you want a complete breakdown
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and even a slight case of nervous exhaustion can be easily induced by the planning of a family ski holiday.
Forget to say, welcome to Snowheads, Paul_Bottomley  .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Paul_Bottomley, going to echo views of others here. Firstly, welcome Secondly, DIY is easy, think of a resort, look at their website and follow link to book accommodation. Advice on any resort available on here.
If you don't want the stress of cooking and organising then you have already found the going rate!
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Thanks for the welcome, a lot to take in and i hear the DIY message (as we are on a budget it makes sense) just need to make sure i can get it all done... Driving in France is no issue, i will just shout at them as they come towards me "your on the wrong side of the road"...
But seriously show chains??? are they a good idea for the last few miles or chance ones arm??
If i said I was going to La Plagne (hope) or Tignes would anyone have an apartment for rent i might consider?
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You know it makes sense.
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You have to carry chains in Alpine areas.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cheers i think driving sounds like the right way to go (pun?) but that's 850 miles for me and Swimbo.... boy are we going to be tired and the sprog moody as hell... LOL even more fun coming home !!!!
Read on one AA website that sat navs are illegal in FRANCE? what's the deal there?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Not heard about the satnav. My only time ever using one was one I borrowed from some friends who live there earlier this year. There are some regs for driving which are easy to find.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't really see why you'd need satnav by the way. A quick check on AA routefinder or similar will give you all you need and finding your way up to your resort is really easy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Paul_Bottomley, it's not the satnavs that are illegal, it's devices that pre-warn you about speed traps. We've just driven to the Alps (not for the first time), and used the Tomtom extensively, but it can be a different thing in the winter. Some roads are simply not there in the snow or others (mountain roads) which are fine in the summer, are impassible in winter. You can do a via Michelin or similar map/directions if you have a co-driver to read for you - not impossible on your own, but easier if not 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Paul_Bottomley, Sat Navs are not illegal in France but any device that shows the location of speed cameras is illegal. Does that make the warning signs you see before lots of cameras also illegal?
The route is easy and relatively painless. Basically you drive to Bourg st Maurice or Aime and just drive the last 20km or so up a very busy well used road to either Tignes or La Plagne. Most of the pain is in the UK.
You need to carry snow chains but rarely use them.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 11-09-13 17:27; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sometimes being in a catered chalet works out as better value so maybe try to put a request through the Solutions room on chaletsdirect.com and just see what you get offered. Driving is a good idea as flights for Christmas will be expensive by now. What car do you drive? Do you have snow tyres? Snow chains are very rarely necessary but they are good to have..
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I did my first diy ski holiday in Tignes this Easter and just booked for feb half term. It was easy and the Feb half term holiday is coming in £1000 cheaper than exactly the same through a package for me DS (22) and DD (13). Last time we drove, this time we are taking the coach from Victoria as the flight prices have become astronomical!
We're doing Val Claret as we did at Easter.
For accommodation Interhome are quoting about 20% less than Booking.com for the same accommodation
We used Evolution 2 for ski school - outstanding and well worth the 200 euros each.
For kit hire we used ski republic lots of branches and excellent when I need to change boots etc
We hired a locker at the bottom of the slope from ski locker.com to save carting kit around
All booked online and took about 2 hours from start to finish
The drive is pretty OK. Good roads. We did an overnight stay in Grenoble because we were picking some people up at the airport. We got a suite in the best western there for 50 euros for the night (it slept 4) less than 3 hours from there to Val Claret and we'd done the Super U shop got kit, unpacked etc and on the slopes before 2pm.
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Paul_Bottomley, tbh, much of the driving is motorway with occasionally filtering onto the next stretch. Not much can go wrong. I've got lost near Lyon a couple of times but they built a new stretch of motorway which has simplified matters. But if you have one already I guess there is no harm in having it on. Get a doofer for the tolls and you can each get a good kip while the other one is driving. That's assuming you wish to drive overnight. Some lightweights get a bed for the night 
We're paying 450 Euros for our apartment this year (33m2). We paid 550 Euros last year (26m2).
An agency I've used in the past is http://www.alpagence.com/index.php?l=2 When I've stayed in Les Coches I've used the website http://www.montchavin-lescoches.com/en/winter-montchavin/home-winter-montchavin.html When I've stayed in Oz I've used the website http://www.oz-en-oisans.com/en although have dealt directly with the owner after the initial part of the process.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
any device that shows the location of speed cameras is illegal.
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But you can still find them on viaMichelin maps or the AA map for that matter!
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Paul_Bottomley, the position with snow tyres and chains is as follows. When the roads are bad, especially on holidays weekends when traffic is heavy, the police will often stop any cars which are not properly equipped and you will simply not be allowed to continue. At times like that you are very likely to be required to put snow chains on, even if you have snow tyres, and even 4WD vehicles without good snow tyres might be required to do the same. The rest of the time (ie when the police are not stopping people) it can sometimes be far too snowy/slippy to get anywhere in ordinary tyres, without chains on. If you DO have snow tyres, it's not often you have to put the chains on top - they make a huge difference.
So, assuming you are not going to buy 4 new snow tyres (though they are also highly desirable in any winter conditions below 7 degrees, even without snow) it is absolutely essential both to carry chains and to know how to put them on in the dark and possibly in a fair bit of snow. Ideally you need something to kneel on, a small spade to clear round the wheels, a head torch in case it's dark and maybe a pair of Marigolds. Not that I have ever managed to put snow chains on wearing Marigolds - I do it in bare hands, as quickly as possible. Not fun, BUT if you are on your way to your resort it's very exciting because it means there's lots of snow. If you are on your way home it's just a filthy horrible job with no saving grace.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
Paul_Bottomley, the position with snow tyres and chains is as follows. When the roads are bad, especially on holidays weekends when traffic is heavy, the police will often stop any cars which are not properly equipped and you will simply not be allowed to continue. At times like that you are very likely to be required to put snow chains on, even if you have snow tyres, and even 4WD vehicles without good snow tyres might be required to do the same. The rest of the time (ie when the police are not stopping people) it can sometimes be far too snowy/slippy to get anywhere in ordinary tyres, without chains on. If you DO have snow tyres, it's not often you have to put the chains on top - they make a huge difference.
So, assuming you are not going to buy 4 new snow tyres (though they are also highly desirable in any winter conditions below 7 degrees, even without snow) it is absolutely essential both to carry chains and to know how to put them on in the dark and possibly in a fair bit of snow. Ideally you need something to kneel on, a small spade to clear round the wheels, a head torch in case it's dark and maybe a pair of Marigolds. Not that I have ever managed to put snow chains on wearing Marigolds - I do it in bare hands, as quickly as possible. Not fun, BUT if you are on your way to your resort it's very exciting because it means there's lots of snow. If you are on your way home it's just a filthy horrible job with no saving grace. |
+1, snow tyres is a must for people who drive in winter conditions. I saw many i....s on roads not knowing how to drive and more annoyingly not properly equiped. Can't understand why people wear winter shoes in snow, but think that summer tyres in winter are OK
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We drove twice last year. On the first trip (Flaine) we drove up the hill, on quite a lot of snow with no problems, until we crested the col and started down in to the resort. At this point it was obvious that stopping was an issue! and we put chains on (with about 1 mile to go). On the 2nd trip (Tignes) the gendarmes pulled everyone into a lay-by (aire de chainage) and made us put chains on. There was even a man on the exit checking that you had infact bothered.
In hindsight I preferred this system, since it removed the need for the "shall-I, shan't I" discussion that we had been having.
One thing to note for transfers. We were approached by a man wanting a lift to Val D'Isere because his taxi had no chains. Seemed pretty poor. Didn't seem like a scam, but if I'd booked a taxi in the Alps, I'd expect them to be prepared.
+1 for the Liber-T tag. On the drive to Tignes it was lashing down for hours on the peage, and you don't want to have to open the window in that at 02:00 
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snow tyres is a must for people who drive in winter conditions
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Be very careful as to whether you mean snowtyres or winter tyres!
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but think that summer tyres in winter are OK
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Because unless you are going several times, or they are a legal requirement, summer tyres will suffice for the majority of UK, Dutch, Belgian, French skiers who make a once a year trip. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Winter Tyres and the benefits they provide, but think there are arguments on both sides as to whether they are a must.
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You know it makes sense.
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On the drive to Tignes it was lashing down for hours on the peage, and you don't want to have to open the window in that at 02:00
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But there is a roof over the places where you have to stick an arm out of the car!
If there's one thing more difficult than deciding when to put your chains on, it's deciding when to take them off.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam_w perhaps, but on the drive to Morzine the year before it was -12 and that's not nice !
I like the tag, it saves the passenger from having to wake up, it saves having to faff about and it saves time. The 2 things I don't like are:
1. I can't see why it isn't cheaper. (like the Dart Tag)
2. Its scary seeing all the toll charges listed as a single item. (rather than being almost a hidden cost)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Its scary seeing all the toll charges listed as a single item. (rather than being almost a hidden cost)
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I have a very simple solution to that - I never look! I find télépéage useful because I am often driving alone, but I must admit that I think it actually does me good to get out and walk around (as I have to do in Italy), especially at night.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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LittleRob, on the plus side, if you get charged the wrong Class (easy when you have bikes on roof etc) you can get them to change it and credit you back.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Boris wrote: |
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snow tyres is a must for people who drive in winter conditions
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Be very careful as to whether you mean snowtyres or winter tyres!
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but think that summer tyres in winter are OK
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Because unless you are going several times, or they are a legal requirement, summer tyres will suffice for the majority of UK, Dutch, Belgian, French skiers who make a once a year trip. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Winter Tyres and the benefits they provide, but think there are arguments on both sides as to whether they are a must. |
My EN is not perfect as I am not native EN speaker, but I do know the diference between good and bad winter tyres ... I was born in 'north', where summer tyres in winter months are illegal - and for a good reason. And I used both winter and snow tyres. For FR and most of continental Europe winter tyres (with a mountain and snowflake sign) would be OK. Then there are differencies between tyres makes and models, there you could look at price and performance differencies.
You only need one slip on wintery road and you would think 'oh sh..t' And a person driving in front of you may also think 'oh sh..t' when he sees an uncontrollable car approaching and you can do nothing on a small mountain road ... Winter tyres are a must in winter conditions. You can have many examples in life where you could apply the same 'suffice' logic, I hope people are smart enough of not follow 'suffice' logic when safety and life is involved. I am 'nervous' about it because I mostly do self-drive and at least once a year it is with my family. If someone is putting my familly in danger, I have zero tolerance to these people. To me driving in winter on summer tyres is equivalent to drunk driving. I understand in some places people are just not used to winter tyres, so apply the 'suffice' logic ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mooney058, you are right, of course, that proper tyres are far safer. But the fact remains that the majority of cars driving for just one week to the French Alps from the UK and many other places, including northern France, Belgium and Holland will not have good winter/snow tyres. It's important that people have accurate information. Winter tyres are not compulsory in France.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| mooney058, you are right, of course, that proper tyres are far safer. But the fact remains that the majority of cars driving for just one week to the French Alps from the UK and many other places, including northern France, Belgium and Holland will not have good winter/snow tyres. It's important that people have accurate information. Winter tyres are not compulsory in France. |
Yes, but alpine region has its special regulations in this regard. When indicated - sign B26 'special equipment obligatory' - snow chains are a must. Indeed, winter/snow tyres are not obligatory in France (but you would hardly see a local person driving without it). However, if next to B26 you see indication 'winter tyres are OK' - you can continue without chains. Needless to say - snow chains on a hard road surface not covered by snow (yes, even on black ice) are useless.
Accurate information is that winter tyres are far safer for yourself and those arround you. It is not a law as it may harm FR tourism industry.... is it a good reason not to have them?
The fact is that education is needed. Leaving safety to discretion of people who are both (a) not used to driving in winter conditions, (b) do not have equipment, is irresponsible. Driving with winter tyres is not a panacea, but it helps a lot. A combo of 'unequiped' and 'no experience' - not good in my books.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 13-09-13 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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mooney058, I don't think there is any argument that winter tyres are a must for locals in the alps. But in the UK most people have not heard of winter tyres and only very recently have the mainstream tyre dealers started stocking them.
For sure many people in UK could benefit from having them, but we are just not set up to swap around summer and winter tyres in the same way large parts of mainland Europe are.
I would like to see that change but I seriously doubt it will.
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Perhaps its the good winter tyres that make all the French drivers think that 2 feet off the bumper of the car in front, and a foot to the left so that he can see you, is a sensible way to carry on
Rob
(ducking and running...)
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LittleRob, 2-feet, wow they're being nice to you 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Imooney058 it wasn't specifically me, more a frequent observation. Typically when they approach very close behind its obvious to all what's going on (e.g. the car in front is overtaking some other slower moving vehicle).
Don't get me wrong, driving in France doesn't bother me, but your suggesting that we all buy winter tyres for safety is, I think, moot until such time as continental driving standards improve.
(now I really am shutting the hatches on my bunker)
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FAQ
Juts thought a sat nav might keep here on the right track and not keep waking me up and or pulling over every junction to wake me up 
(ive been there before) anyway our sat nav is steam powered so no speed camera rubbish on it