 Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm thinking of doing one of the multi-resort road trips with Black Diamond Tours on Hokkaido next Jan - chasing the pow, seeing the smaller/off the beaten track resorts, and presumably more of the Japanese culture than is found in Niseko, all sound good to me. As I'll be going there solo, having a crew to ski with should also be nice! I'd probably go for the PowerTrip (6/7day).
http://www.blackdiamondtours.com/tours-multi-resort.html
They're not cheap, and it'd take a hefty whack out of my budget, but seem like they could be quite good value overall... Has anyone done one/know anyone who has? Decent standard of skiers/boarders, or a lot of waiting around as people pick themselves up and dust the pow off? Plenty of ski time, or too much spent driving?
I'd be grateful for any info.
Cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
It'd be pretty easy to sort that yourself, can't you get a mate to go with you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Mosha Marc, finding people with money, motivation and holiday time (I want to go for min. two weeks) is proving quite difficult - a lot of my mates here will be instructing for much of the winter. GF is going to Iran in September, so has no money left for travel.
I like the idea of the guiding part too, given it'll be a relatively short I want to cram in as many fresh tracks as poss. If there're 12 people + 2 guides in the group though, that may compromise that quite a bit...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I would have thought the American's, say around Colorado, single diamond black, double diamond black and double diamond extreme black (average slope 35 degree and steepest more than 40 degree) offer more than what you can find from Niseko with a maximum altitude of 1308m when spending the similar amount of money. The Colorado has peaks higher than the highest in Europe too and some you can get there by chairlifts too! Take a look at the piste map like Aspen Mountains, Brenckenridge, Winter Park and Arapahoe. You don't need to hire a guide if you donot want to because many of these areas fall within the inbound of the patrolled domains.
Not saying Japanese Hokkaido not worth the visit but you will not get much out of Niseko with a peak of 1308m above the sea level if you are looking for challenging diamond black runs. Our Nevis Range in Scotland is not far off with a 1220m peak you know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
saikee, I agree that Colorado will have steeper slopes but you could go for 14 days to Colorado and have no fresh snow. The chances of that in Japan are lesser, but not altogether impossible.
clarky999, I've been there once, 48 hours with no fresh and we got twitchy and wished we had a guide to take us out and about to new snow. 12 hours later it started snowing and never stopped and we were fine in Niseko. Tough choice IMHO, if you have the money that trips looks like it cannot fail to deliver........
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
saikee, Thanks for the info, but Black Diamond Tours is the name of the company, not what I'm looking for in terms of runs 
I want as much untracked pow as I can handle, and if I'm flying that far, an exotic and different culture. I have plenty of long runs and steep gnar (more than I can handle, tbh) around where I live, it's consistent deep light pow (everyday) that I'm looking for on this trip - given the length of the list I want to tick off, it's likely to be my only visit to Japan for at least several years, so I want to do it right.
I'm sure US skiing is great, but I'm not convinced I'd find all that much more powder than I do here, and obv the culture is pretty similar to the UK - so it's quite far down my 'to do list.' Some of the backcountry huts with skin-accessed terrain look like a lot of fun though.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 3-07-13 22:29; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Tough choice IMHO, if you have the money that trips looks like it cannot fail to deliver........
|
kitenski, That's the thing. I can probably afford to stay in Niseko for three weeks and do a few day trips/guided trips elsewhere, or I can go for two weeks to include one of the multi-resort tours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
clarky999, if you can afford it, a versatile guide who takes you to the best snow locally is definitely the way to go IMHO, you can get loads more snow in one area compared to another 20 miles away if I've read the previous years stats correctly........
The other thing to weigh up is pay 3 weeks to stay in Niseko and play it by ear vs the Black Diamond tours....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
saikee, I think your missing the main benefit of Japan, which is fresh tracks every 24 hours if you get lucky. You just cannot get that in Europe IMHO. It's actually good that Niseko is low, as you get to ski in fresh snow below the clouds.............
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kitenski,
It wasn't my experience that Niseko snows more than other resorts during the week I spent there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| saikee wrote: |
It wasn't my experience that Niseko snows more than other resorts during the week I spent there. |
Bingo - extrapolating a universal from one limited personal anecdote.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
That's really expensive. If the choice is a 3 week stay without the tour, or 2 weeks with it, personally I'd go for the longer stay.
If you start off in a hostel in Niseko, you should be able to find a couple of riding buddies who would be up for hiring a car and/or a guide for day trips to other resorts in the area. If you can link up with a few others who are keen, I'd recommend hiring a car for a longer trip to head up to the Sapporo area and then central areas around Asahikawa. You can stay in business hotels fairly cheap, and then travel each day to a different ski area.
If you want to tour outside ski areas, definitely hire a guide for a day or two. But the great thing about Hokkaido (esp outside Niseko area) is that you don't need to hike for fresh snow.
Black Diamond Tours do take in alot of the less known ski areas on their trips, but I've often seen the BD party bus in parking lots, and their crew is generally just skiing the well known and obvious lines within the ski area. They do also hike the classic Hokkaido avvy barriers, but with a car, you can scope those for yourself from the road, and then just pull over and hit them when you like (they're everywhere). They do have some other secret pillow zones etc, but you're paying a hell of a lot for that.
I'm certainly not saying Black Diamond don't run a good tour, and if you have the money to spend, they'd make it a very easy and well run trip. But clarky999, you seem to be pretty switched on and adventurous, I'm sure you could figure something out independently for significantly cheaper, that would allow you a longer trip.
And if you're heading up to any of the Sapporo or Asahikawa ski areas, give me a shout, I'll happily show you around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| saikee wrote: |
kitenski,
It wasn't my experience that Niseko snows more than other resorts during the week I spent there. |
What time of year did you go? I had two dry days, then it snowed every day for the next 7 whilst I was there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Saikee's point is highly relevant for those headed for Japow but only for say 7 days skiing. There is a risk that the snow disappoints in that scenario, or that gales are a blowin'. If skiing is but part of the holiday equation and/or you're over there for 2 weeks plus then yep Fatbob's bingo call is spot on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
clarky999, Mike Pow and MagSeven are obviously on the ground and know their stuff about the area. I agree with saikee though that this is low vertical and all aboutt he snow - for me the birch tree skiing was worth the trip. From my perspective I did 9 days with mountaintracks this year (Feb 16 or thereabouts ie straight after doing a week in the alps). It snowed heavily every day. We stayed 4 days or so in Niseko. Niseko top lifts (bootpack to backbowls) were closed for much of that time. Withotu easy acces to a car and guide we woudl have been scrabblign around. In any event, you are not doing Hokkaido justice if you just stay in Niseko ie you MUST ski the other places. We did all the obvious ones plus some less so and also made it to Asahidake.
Last season there were a number of snowheads out there looking for ski companions but I think that is high risk unless you know the ski ability.
In summary I think you have to go with a group of some sort but take care to ensure that there are skiers at least as good as you.
I will PM you one or two other things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
chrisJersey, thanks for the pm, things to bear in mind!
MagSeven, you think it'd be easy enough to rock up in Niseko with a hostel booked for a few days and meet people to hook up for a trip elsewhere? That's what I would have done if travelling out with mates, I guess I'm just a bit worried about the likelihood of finding people in a similar situation/wanting the same thing/similar timeframes.
Is it really that expensive? I thought it seemed reasonable (includes accomm and lift passes as well as guiding). Roughly what sort of cost would a bog standard hotel in a little off the track resort be? Car hire ok with a UK license?
Mike Pow, basic accomm. is no problem - just need a shower, bed and somewhere to keep my laptop (wifi would be nice...) - can you recommend anywhere?
BTW, I'd assumed early Jan would be low season, but TGR is suggesting it may not be, when would be the quietest time (in 'pow season') to come?
Cheers, everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
clarky999, I reckon if you're sociable and asking around, you would probably be able to get a few people together. A mate of mine came out to see me a couple of years ago. I had to work for a week while he was here so he booked into a hostel in Hirafu for that period. When I went back down to meet him, he had got himself a little crew together and they were very keen to join us in heading back up to Sapporo to check out a few other spots. (He had also pretty much got himself a new girlfriend, but that's another story altogether!) Niseko is a bit of a bubble, so I think people who are there for longer for a weeks trip are keen to get out and explore if they have the opportunity. Generally in hostels it'd be young Aussies who'd be up for a bit of an adventure.
If you're staying in hotels in Sapporo or Asahikawa, you could definitely have something for 4500-5000 per night for a decent business hotel. Less if you're prepared to rough it a bit. There are ski buses in Sapporo which are cheap/free depending on where you go. In Asahikawa you'd probably have a hire car anyway to get yourself to the ski hills. Get yourself an international driving permit from the Post Office and that with your UK licence will be fine. Petrol is abit cheaper than in the UK, a little under a quid a litre.
In Niseko I've stayed at Owashi Lodge which is very central. Shizenkan Backpackers a few minutes out of town. Aspara Lodge, again a couple of minutes out of town. Would recommend all of those, good price, clean, nice owners, and generally sociable.
I've no doubt the Black Diamond trip would be good, but it's at a premium price. From my perspective it seems expensive, but I am lucky to have a bit of local knowledge. If you do some legwork then you'd be able to do something similar for cheaper, allowing you a third week. Happy to help with any more info you need!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
a guy on our trip stayed at the Black Diamond Lodge, had no issues hooking up with folk
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
clarky999, hey Matt, just a thought......have heard good things about Black Diamond Lodge, I think Warren Smith used to do some guiding out of there, I certainly know he has good connections out there, might be worth an email to him, he might piece a trip together for you or give you some tips/ hints. Some great advice from the guys on the ground but WS info might help too.
I'd really like to get out there to Japan but not enough holiday (or money!), pulling a 2 week road trip together for St Anton and Warth in March, and also out with the Manx lads and Dan in January. I'm sure you'll get the best out of Japan if you do an indi trip, you'll soon meet people in the area and ski with those guys who are similar level.......I've always wondered how big an issue the road signs are when you are driving, I'd not understand a thing, maybe worth thinking about if you are hiring a car?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| clarky999.I've always wondered how big an issue the road signs are when you are driving, I'd not understand a thing, maybe worth thinking about if you are hiring a car? |
Road signs have both Japanese and English names for towns so that's no problem. Outside the cities, there arent many roads in Hokkaido, so you're unlikely to get lost. Things like road closures etc (certainly not unheard of when blizzards hit) are only signposted in Japanese which can catch you out, and is worth keeping an eye out for. You will generally get an English sat nav with a hire car if you ask for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So still doing a lot of research on this, I really appreciate the help so far.
How easy is it to get around Japan by public transport? Say fly to Tokyo, internal flight (or train/ferry?) to Saporro for the one week BD Hokkaido tour, then head back to Tokyo with maybe another day skiing around Saporro (with MagSeven?), a day or two skiing Hakuba area (maybe some guided touring with TGR's Neck Beard), then a day or two seeing the sights in Tokyo. Doable, or expensive/trying to pack too much into too little time? If I only went for two weeks (well, probably 16/17 days inc flights) I'd have more holiday time left for European adventures.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
clarky999, I'd say it is very straightforward to travel around Japan on plane/train etc.
Personally I could not imagine flying all that way to Japan (the most fascinating country I've been to) to ski and then come straight back without sampling Tokyo or other sights/sounds/tastes so yep go for some city culture stuff too.
If you're capped at about 2 weeks, I wonder if best bet is to fly in to Sapporo (easy enough and cheap to tag on to yr flight to Tok), have a night or two in the city to soak it all up whilst getting some jetlag out of system, then have the BD trip, a day or so with Magseven or Mikepow or misc snowheads and cap it all with 2-3 nights in Tokyo? If you had 2+ weeks you might sneak in 3 days+ on Honshu at one of zillion resorts that are easily accessed by train but if just 2 weeks does seem a risk of trying to cram too much in.
Sure you'll have an amazing time no matter what tho!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Yeah, internal flights are very easy. Air Asia, Jetstar and Skymark fly from Narita to Sapporo. Keep your eyes on their websites for the dates you want (Skymark flights are released exactly 2 months before travel) and you should be able to bag a decent bargain. (Or you can tag it onto your flight from the UK, usually with a codeshare JAL or ANA flight) When you arrive into Narita, I'd courier your skis directly to BD Lodge if that's your first stop.
Train or ferry is also possible but will take alot longer and probably cost more.
Then when you're back in Tokyo you can head to any number of ski areas by bullet train or night bus.
Definitely up for skiing one of the Sapporo ski areas with you clarky999.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MagSeven, cheers. Courier from Tokyo (airport?), presumably?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Ok scratch that, taking in Tokyo + domestic flights are going to stretch my budget too much. I'll stay on Hokkaido, and make Sapporo the city/culture (and get in a bit more skiing) stop for a couple of days. If anyone has reccommendations for another culturey/non-ski place to check out on Hokkaido, that'd be sweet!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Otaru
Nikka Whisky Distillery tour, Yoichi
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Try and see if you can get UK to Sapporo flights routing via Tokyo.
And then take a stopover in Tokyo.
My young lady did that last December.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Check that, Innsbuck - Tokyo - Sapporo (CTS)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
clarky999, speak to these guys, my trip booked through them included a Tokyo stopover and a hotel. Ben is out there usually and will do you an orientation day which was v useful for me on my first trip
http://www.japanskiexperience.co.uk/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
clarky999, just saw on Facebook that BD have a 20% earlybird discount that expires at the end of this week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Ok, starting to complete the booking, but flights are still tricky.
KLM Munich - Amsterdam - Osaka all good, just over €800, skis confirmed. Last leg of the flight (booked all together through KLM) with Japan Airlines, they can't tell me whether they will take the skis, if it will costs extra (presume it will!) until I arrive at Osaka airport... And presumably it will be the same case on the way back Sapporro to Osaka. Very bloody helpful!
Anyone have any experience taking skis on a domestic flight with JAL? I will have just the one big double ski bag as my sole piece of checked luggage. If charges are too high, what sort of cost do the funky Japanese courier service things usually incur? Likely able to get my skis from Osako to Niseko same/next day?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
clarky999, the past 3 IoS trips have done internal flight Tokyo to Sapporro with JAL and no issues with skis..........BUT were booked thru BA I think
I had no issues with 2 bags, and the 2 others I were with had one double ski bag with them
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
clarky999 At around £200 a day for lift passes, accommodation and guiding, the Black Diamond Powertrip looks pretty decent value to me for virtually guaranteed powder days. Ta for the tip off - will have to add to my list of future possibilities  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
clarky999, I had one totally separate internal JAL flight to Sap and on way back had a JAL flight to Tokyo then 3 days later a JAL flight to London. All booked via BA but internals were def on JAL rules; no problem at all on those w great big ski bag + suitcase. The JAL Narita-London flight was more stressy - they measured up skibag dimensions and after 5 mins of the check in lady babbling to someone in Japanese she gave the ok.
Think you will be fine esp throwing in a few Arigatos at every opportunity. Recall courier charges being about £20-25 and apparently v quick/reliable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
kitenski, DoubleBombardino, cheers.
Think I'll probably take the risk (especially if couriers are that cheap)... JAL do say that there is a 1 metre length restriction on the type of plane flying the domestic route, but Flybe also have similar restrictions on many planes, yet never had a problem with my skis.
Maybe I'd be better taking one of the options flying through Tokyo instead of Osaka, though that involves a long wait and/or a trip between the two Tokyo airports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I flew into Haneda and then out to Hokkaido. ie no need to transfer from Narita to Haneda if you can get on that flight (which was BA).
no problem with skis or with flight even though our inbound was delayed and we missed our connection. JAL very obliging as is part of one world alliance
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
clarky999,
When you going? Me and 4 of my mates arrive at the black diamond lodge on the 5th of January for 10 days.
Will be our 3rd time there! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
sparkzter, arriving on the 17th, so just to late! Any tips for the area would be appreciated though.
In other news, just booked the one week PowerTrip for the end of Japanuary, stoked!!! BA flight prices have come down to KLM prices, so that's the next thing to sort out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
