 Poster: A snowHead
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i am thinking of upgrading my transceiver and am looking at ortovox there seems to be two models to choose from....
S1+ and the 3+
has anyone used either of these and is one better than the other?
cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've got the 3+
I've had my hands on the BCA tracker 2 and on of the older digital Pieps.
To be honest, all the digital multi-antennae transceivers available now are pretty much equal in terms of performance. The differences come down to ease of use which is a uniquely personal thing.
I find the 3+ very easy to use, but I know of others who wear glasses or have poor eyesight who prefer other models for display reasons, but even then, the models they each chose was different so you can't simply say one is better for this than that. If you can get your hands on some, I'd have a play.
That being said, the differences aren't huge and I'm sure you could get to know whichever one you buy well enough. You just have to be sure to get enough practice in so you can use it without thinking if you need to.
Where abouts are you based? There may be a few friendly SH's nearby who have transceivers you could take a look at.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'd pass on buying the S1
During a beacon training session I watched someone's S1 close unintentionally while they were digging out a buried beacon. The S1 reverted to send and it then made finding the second burial impossible as everyone was chasing the guy who's beacon was on send rather then search. Bad design not sure if this has been resolved or not. I'm sure it can find the beacon easy enough like the others but in a real avalanche incident this would be the last thing you'd want.
It's also has hinge which could potentially break over time.
I'd suggest spending the extra money and get the Pulse, you can customize the beacon to what you want. Making it simple to start off with and then in the future you might find some options well worth having.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 3-12-13 9:53; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| OD wrote: |
I'd suggest spending the extra money and get the Pulse, you can customize the beacon to what you want making simple to start off with and in the future you might find some options well worth having. |
Do you really think you'll ever use all those extra options? I went for the Element as I just couldn't see me faffing around with the menu's whilst in full on headless chicken mode because my best mate was buried under x meters of snow.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Unfortunately I think I might at some point, so hence the preference for the Pulse. The element like you mentioned is a great beacon likewise for the tracker, again I would avoid the S1.
In a worst case scenario where you have multiple deep burials(+2) with a mix of beacons(Tracker, Ortovox F1(!), Pieps, etc) it will be far harder to find then having all the same model of beacon.
With the Pulse you have the ability to switch to the manual mode which is a good thing if your beacon starts to become overloaded with signal info. You can then do micro strip searches in the opti 3000 mode, and the long range for clearing larger avalanches. This is all a bit nerdy and doomsday-er but it's well worth practicing harder scenarios so that when you have to deal with it all goes as smooth as it can.
If you use the beacon for a trip a season the tracker, element are perfect.
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| ajc2260626 wrote: |
| i am thinking of upgrading my transceiver |
What's wrong with your current one?
| OwenM wrote: |
| Do you really think you'll ever use all those extra options? |
This. Chances are, you ain't gonna need em.
| OwenM wrote: |
| I just couldn't see me faffing around with the menu's whilst in full on headless chicken mode |
...but not for this reason, because it is still a well designed and extremely functional bit of gear. If you're faffing around, it means you've never taken the trouble to work out how to use your transceiver, and no-one would be that irresponsible, right?
I have the Pulse, got it on a special offer so it was only a few pennies more expensive than an Element at the time. Its a nice piece of kit, and entirely useable. You can always put it in 'basic' mode for functionality that's entirely equivalent to the Element, if you wanted, leaving the advanced stuff as an option if you ever wanted it.
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| Quote: |
In a worst case scenario where you have multiple deep burials(+2) with a mix of beacons(Tracker, Ortovox F1(!), Pieps, etc) it will be far harder to find then having all the same model of beacon.
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I wasn't aware different brands on victims made it harder. Sure, some emit a stronger signal, but in the end they all emit the same signal. Some of the newer ones emit identifiers too, that's a different issue all together. Why would all having the same beacon help?
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With the Pulse you have the ability to switch to the manual mode which is a good thing if your beacon starts to become overloaded with signal info.
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"Simple" beacons don't become overloaded with signals; they lock on to the strongest signal. You go for that first and dig out the victim and turn their beacon off (or set it to search). If there are multiple searchers you spread out and that way other people's beacons will lock on to other victims (hopefully).
That said I would also prefer the more advanced options; the main benefit of more advanced beacons is that you can block out a signal when you have found them but before you get to turn off the beacon (e.g. if you get a hit with a probe). That way you can carry on searching in the close vicinity. Very useful for multiple burials where the victims are close together. If victims are far apart it's less of an issue but still potentially useful.
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If you use the beacon for a trip a season the tracker, element are perfect
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Both are indeed excellent. I own the Tracker DTS but I have played with a Pulse a bit; if I were to replace mine I'd probably go for the Pulse. The Tracker DTS does have a multiple victim mode which removes the lock on the strongest signal and allows you to "see" other signals. I confess I found this hard to use in practices; the blocking mode of the Pulse seemed easier in use.
I have only had a quick play with the Ortovox S1 and although it looked flashy (I think it has things like a compass and inclinometer built in?) I personally felt it looked too complex and I share the concern with the hinge too. The guy who was using it was an experienced skier who was evaluating it for Ortovox; he diplomatically said he would "feed back some thoughts" to Ortovox - not sure if they took any of these in to account. Mind you, he also said he could find a victim quicker with his analogue beacon than I could with a digital.... he backed out if it when I suggested a small wager;-)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is more the case when you mix digital and analogue beacons. Analogue beacons over time become untuned and the frequency starts to drift from the normal 457mHz. Where as digital beacons tend not to have this issue. This will result in some difficulties either finding or maintaining a "mark".
Agreed Digital beacons will lock onto the strongest signal and will have zero issues finding 2 burials very quickly. Point and shout really.
Where you start to get problems is when you're looking for 3 or more beacons that are deeper (at least 1+m) with two close together. Sometimes you have no issues other times it becomes frustrating. This happens for a bunch of reasons like when signals overlap or when you start to mark beacons it limits the search area of the beacon say from 50m to 35m. Marks are then dropped because of these issues and you end up returning to the same beacon that you just found.
So when you're going around in circles and wasting time, mirco strips are a great backup to a technology fail in complex and hard situations. This is worst case scenario and doomsday-er but another tool to use when things aren't working the way they should. If you're good at this it'll make things in a simple search automatic, quick and the way you want it.
For those wanting more info on Micro Strip Search check out Manuals paper
http://www.beaconreviews.com/transceivers/pdfs/microsearchstrips.pdf
If you're going to practice searching for beacons, challenge yourself. If it's easy find ways of making it harder.
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OD, interesting, thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OD, An interesting article. Thanks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I have only had a quick play with the Ortovox S1 and although it looked flashy (I think it has things like a compass and inclinometer built in?) I personally felt it looked too complex and I share the concern with the hinge too.
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Compass, inclinometer and thermometer (which is pointless as it takes minimum 5 mins for it adjust to the temp outside your ski gear).
I have one (S1 not S1+) and really like it. Very easy to use. Open it and it goes straight into search mode, the screen gives you a very clear image of what's going on and can direct you straight to the victim (rather than along flux lines), press one button and the signal is masked so you can move onto the next. Easier to use than my old Tracker anyway.
I hadn't thought about the possibility of it getting accidentally closed and buggering up a search. I guess it could potentially happen, and is something to be aware of, but despite a LOT of research this is the first time I've seen the point raised/anyone had it happen so seems unlikely to be a real issue.
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[quote="Serriadh"]
| ajc2260626 wrote: |
| OwenM wrote: |
| I just couldn't see me faffing around with the menu's whilst in full on headless chicken mode |
...but not for this reason, because it is still a well designed and extremely functional bit of gear. If you're faffing around, it means you've never taken the trouble to work out how to use your transceiver, and no-one would be that irresponsible, right?
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I just think if the worse case ever should happen all you'll do is turn it to search and get on with it. No one is going to be thinking about going into menu's and selecting options from a long list at a time like that. The basic mode and the Element is the same, so just get the Element (or another brand equivalent) and learn how to use it and then keep practicing.
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You know it makes sense.
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The best transceiver in the world is the one you know how to use effectively.
I think the Ortovox 3+ and the Mammut Element are both great units, but even they require practise in order to become really slick. Make your training as hard as possible, and practise as often as possible.
Have a safe winter...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I use the S1 myself, but despite being on the hill most days of the season with it, I rarely use its myriad of functions. It does have a function which allows for transceiver checks when a number of units are in close proximity (useful for a quick check in a gondola - no comments please...) and the slope inclinometer is a nice touch. However, I find it cumbersome at best. And yeah, the screen is vulnerable to damage.
For my clients, I provide the 3+ - it is intuitive and with a minimal amount of training, most seem to get pretty quick and accurate with the unit. It's simplicity is only a good thing in a stressful situation. And having 1 AA battery, it is not too irksome to renew to keep a high battery percentage
As has been mentioned, practice is the key
But don't take my word for it. Head down to your retailer and ask to try a few out - you will soon get a feel for what you prefer
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FAQ
