 Poster: A snowHead
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So work have confirmed that I won't have a job here in Geneva past the end of September. I'm not being fired, they just want to repatriate me to the UK as it's cheaper to employ me there (I'd prefer to be given redundancy and take the money!). I don't want to go.
So while I will keep looking for new jobs over the summer etc, and may find something suitable, I'm looking at alternatives - I like being prepared, especially given the high cost of living here!
If I don't have anything lined up for the end of September, options are:
- go back to the UK with a guaranteed job as an interim measure while I keep looking for something else here
- Quit
(Now in an ideal world I'd have a job in Geneva lined up to start in Jan, and spend Oct/Nov in the sun, and Dec skiing - but I can't hope or plan for that!)
Quitting is financially more precarious, but does mean I could head off to a ski resort and work/ski there while I keep applying for jobs back in Geneva (or plot a move to Zurich) so it's rather appealing.
I already have enough savings to cover a ski season without working there at all while I job hunt in Geneva, but I would want to work in resort for the social life and to keep my savings balance a little healthier. BUT I'd only want to work evenings only i.e. bar, restaurant, hotel work - not just for the ski opportunities (though that obviously appeals) but I'll need to be able to go back to Geneva at short notice for job interviews during the day. Weekend work also fine.
I have an Irish passport, and a Swiss work permit, so can work in French or Swiss resorts easily. I speak English and French (at least well enough for bar work and conversation - and I'm improving it for hardcore job interviews) and a little Spanish. I have a lot of experience in different types of bars (restaurant, club, cocktail etc), and worked full time as a hotel supervisor (doing the day to day running) for a while in a largish hotel. But this was all 8years+ ago, so no recent references... Still, I'm optimistic I could find something suitable.
Good transport back to Geneva is key, so I'm focusing on Chamonix and Verbier - top notch Swiss train network, or mostly motorway travel and minimal mountain roads vulnerable to closures, and minimal travel time/distance.
They both also have the advantage of being a decent size, and have year round activities, so I might be able to start a job before December. I also already know them both well, and know I like them both enough to happily spend a season there. In both I'd be looking to sort my own accommodation and job - not anything with staff/inclusive accommodation.
My initial thoughts comparing both are:
Chamonix:
+ shorter journey time to Geneva
+ cheaper cost of living
+ I prefer the skiing there
- lower wages
- more paperwork (sorting insurance, bank accounts etc)
Verbier:
+ higher wages
+ little paperwork (I already have the bank accounts, right mobile, health insurance etc)
+ I keep using my swiss permit - I can only be out of work (in Switzerland) for 12 months before I lose it
- higher cost of living
- I prefer the skiing in Cham. But I still really like Verbier!
- longer journey time back to Geneva. But closer to Zurich...
Does anyone have any experience of these resorts and thoughts on how finances work out in comparison to each other, or relative ease of finding a job?
What else should I consider or plan for that I might not have thought about?
Any help appreciated!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Do you keep or quit your job is the question.
I assume you will be allowed take a few weeks off every winter still?!
Do you have dependents? How old are you? What do you work as currently? What are your career motivations and plans? These are more important questions. Keeping your job and taking career break or sabattical is surely an optipn. Unless you hate your job and want to quit anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've done 1 season in Verbier and 6 in Chamonix.
Off topic I recon a compulsory change of country amounts to a significant enought change of conditions for you to demand redundancy.
From my history you can guess where my hat hangs but looking at your pros and cons I think cham also come out tops. Bottom line cham is way better skiing.
The question that really needs to be answered first is do you hang on to your job and move or quit!
Good luck either way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Verbier. Don't underestimate the paperwork headache involved in relocating to France or the value of a Swiss work permit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Take professional advice re the relocation to UK, sounds like they could be in breach of contract and thus forced to offer you redundancy. Can't offer any specific advice re location but neither Cham nor Verbier are too shabby, but I guess if you are serious about future career you need to weigh up the options and maybe agree with them a years sabbatical? Then the door will be left open for you and you can go do a year off knowing you have a proper career type job at the end of it.
Whatever you decide to I'm sure it will be good, good luck.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just as a matter of interest, what do you do? Just in case I hear of any suitable jobs where I work or where friends do.
I would have thought you would be in line for redundancy, certainly would be the case in UK law but I don't know about Swiss. However I do know that Swiss redundancy packages by law are terrible, so hopefully your employer would be more generous than that.
That said, the Swiss 'chomage', unemployment pay, is excellent so long as you can prove you are 'actively' job seeking. It might be one way of spending a lot of time on the slopes whilst looking for a new job as I believe it lasts for 18 months, at something like 70/80% of your last salary, up to about chf 8k per month. I don't know the exact figures I'm afraid, or how long you need to be here to qualify.
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fixx, I'm assuming you are on a B permit? continuing with CH work will carry on adding time towards your C permit which may be a good thing if you are planning on staying here for a longer time.
Lizzard's point re French paperwork very valid. French employment stuff is a right nightmare and very difficult to extricate yourself from afterwards.
I wouldn't necessarily limit yourself to Cham or Verb - many other good ski places in CH easily accessible by public transport (e.g. PDS).
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Thanks all for your thoughts - a quick response from me now as I'm at work and typing on phone... I'll reply properly when at home.
I'm on secondment from the UK, so my company can repatriate me whenever they like. They've already made it very clear they have lots for me to do in the UK too, so don't want to pay me off. Doesn't help that I won an annual group wide award for Project Management a few months ago either... 
I'm curreny doing international location strategy, and associated Project Management, in Private Banking - any pointers towards jobs would be gratefully received!
My preference would be sort out another job in Geneva and have no stress at all - but as they say 'fail to prepare and prepare to fail'. As the job market is tight in Geneva at the mo, I want to know what my options are and put myself in the best position possible.
I'm 32, single, no kids, Swiss B permit. As for career aspirations, I'm not looking to get to the very top, just have a job I don't object to (preferably enjoy!), do it well, and be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle.
And very keen to avoid the paperwork and a third set of tax returns! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fixx, OK, I'd be very keen to have continuity in CH - just from a work permit point of view...
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fixx, I have to agree with Lizzard and under a new name. I don't know how long you've been in CH already, but you'll normally get a C permit at 5 years. Also as an EU citizen, I'm 99% certain you won't be kicked out after 12 months on the dole. I'd almost be tempted to have a word with the RAV (German abbreviation for the job centre, I forget the French abbreviation) as you would be entitled to unemployment benefit even if you quit - you just have a waiting period before they will pay out. I do a lot of interpreting for people at RAV appointments and unemployment benefit in your situation would be 70% of your last salary up to an eligible salary of CHF 10'500/month and, assuming you have 2 years' contributions, payable for 400 working days (about 18 months). You do have to show you are making efforts to find work, and attend regular monthly meetings, but that would be far easier to do from somewhere like Verbier or the PDS than Chamonix, I would think.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eng_ch, I don't think you can easily be unemployed from Verbier if your main base is Geneva. And the "new" rules on benefit means that you have really quite a lot of work to do to continue to qualify. It's a tremendous system and support between jobs but not a system that's easily exploitable to facilitate skiing!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you are just after some "pocket money" while looking for the next thing then you could probably pick up something at Geneva airport. Some Tour Operators employ a couple of people to help out with their transfer days, might be worth looking into it if you decide on quitting and staying...
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fixx, it does occur to me, that you might want to just get a crash pad in resort (it's not powder everyday after all) while carrying on living in Geneva?
Just a thought.
Also, I am under the impression that project management is reasonably in demand? I have no tangible advice on local agencies however, I'm afraid.
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You know it makes sense.
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fixx, I think you're crazy to be considering quitting.
In fact, presumably if you went back to UK, then got a job in bank next door and told them you were leaving, you'd get 3 months of "gardening leave"?!
You seem to have a good job and skiing costs money. How easy will it be to get back to equivalent job if you have 6 month gap of being unemployed? Probably harder than if you were in continuous employment, if nothing else.
If your company likes you so much they may acquiesce to locating you in geneva again the future, or agree to 6 month career break/ sabattical which you could set up for a few years time.
You will love this sport just as much when you are 40!
Having said all that, I have 3 kids and 4 mortgages...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for all your thoughts so far - they've really helped me focus planning and research already, and made me think a little wider - great forum
A few further responses, as I get time to do them (currently working 12 hour days, no idea why...)
Keeping job vs quitting - this is actually something I've been discussing with work over the past couple of months, not out of the blue fortunately. In fact when it first came up they wanted me back in the UK end June. I said I'd start looking elsewhere and didn't want to leave Geneva, and they extended me until end September They have been really good, and very open and honest. So I'm pretty clear the chances are slim for further extensions, much as my boss and director here would like to keep me.
Plan A is absolutely finding another job in Geneva, and just getting a little pied-a-terre for weekends during the winter in a resort But I need a plan B, C etc just in case...
| peanuthead wrote: |
I assume you will be allowed take a few weeks off every winter still?!
Keeping your job and taking career break or sabattical is surely an optipn. Unless you hate your job and want to quit anyway. |
Weeks off - I hope so! Career break - my company does allow them, but they don't guarantee a job at the end of it. And I'd only be offered something in the UK. It's definitely worth looking at though, I'll pick the brains of a friend/colleague who did exactly that 6 months ago...
I really like my current job, and especially like my team and bosses. But I can't keep it - I could do something similar in the UK with the same company, but it would be a different role and team. And I love Geneva. I've done London - I was there for 5 years (and longer in other parts of UK), I like visiting, but don't want to live and work there again.
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Verbier. Don't underestimate the paperwork headache involved in relocating to France or the value of a Swiss work permit. |
| jbob wrote: |
| From my history you can guess where my hat hangs but looking at your pros and cons I think cham also come out tops. Bottom line cham is way better skiing. |
And there's the crux - head says Verbier, heart says Cham. I think it's just because I know Cham better, so I've started educating myself more on accom and job options in Verbs, and it's getting more and more appealing. Thanks for the nudges 
| Whitters wrote: |
| That said, the Swiss 'chomage', unemployment pay, is excellent so long as you can prove you are 'actively' job seeking. It might be one way of spending a lot of time on the slopes whilst looking for a new job as I believe it lasts for 18 months, at something like 70/80% of your last salary, up to about chf 8k per month. I don't know the exact figures I'm afraid, or how long you need to be here to qualify. |
I'm not eligible for chomage unfortunately - my secondment contract meant I didn't have to pay in, as my NI was being paid in the UK (apparently JSA is the way to go?! Annoying, as I've been here for 2 and half years, so would be eligible. I understand I can still register with the office and advisors though for help finding a job, I just can't claim.
I did have a couple of friends spend last season in Verbier while on it though - lucky Fitzwilliams. I think it depends on the advisor you get. They're on my hitlist for info on Verbier accom and jobs etc, and general job hunting in CH.
More replies later - I hate long posts! Thanks and well done to anyone who made it to the bottom of this  
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Poster: A snowHead
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fixx, all sounds good so far.
Although our base is Chamonix, and we didn't even ski one day in Verbier last winter, I would find a season in Verbier very appealing. Although the lift system has its moments, I've always been lucky to ski there with very experienced friends who really know their way around. I really rather like the skiing.
However, it is much more of a schlep on a Friday night than Cham, especially around rush hour on the Geneve-Lausanne stretch.
The advisers at the dole office are very good and will at least have lists of agencies who could at least (potentially) find you contract work?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A bit of an update for those who care - work contract extended conveniently until the end of November  Which gives me the extra breathing space to feel comfortable taking a few months off to ski, no work, woohoo.
Crucially I've worked out that what I really want is a break - I need at least a month off with no work committments, maybe longer, and with the extra couple on months working, and saving hard over the summer, I'm in a fortunate position to do it - so I'm doing it this winter! I want to move my skiing on, as I only started a couple of years ago, so this is my 'me' time. It feels great already, I just wish it would come quicker (though I'm loving the summer!).
And I've now got a studio apartment set up in Chamonix for the winter thanks to Marcellus!
I'm still looking for jobs next year and I've had some interest in contracting then (and have had a couple of permanent offers this year, but nothing tempting enough) and hoping I'll be able to take at least December off to ski, and maybe a couple more months off next year, and find something maybe starting March time. We'll see - still lots to sort out... It's good to have a place sorted for the weekends as well anyway.
Anyway, Chamonix it is, and as I don't need to work, and will be sublettting my place in Geneva, I will technically still have a Swiss address - so no impacts on taxes or work permit, phew.
Plus another very good friend has also signed up for a studio in Chamonix, and we both have lots of friends wanting to join us for weekends and holidays and donate to cost of bills etc. And another set of friends going back to Verbier, so we'll work out some kind of visit rota and I'll pop up there at some point too, yay!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fixx, Sounds like a great plan. Good luck.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
fixx, I think you're crazy to be considering quitting.
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Absolutely. Get your nose back to that grindstone you nasty little subversive and stop underminig the fabric of civilisation. Who do you think you are, Che Guevara?
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Having said all that, I have 3 kids and 4 mortgages...
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Sucker. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fixx, Enjoy. Lizzard,
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fixx, Well done. Lots of reports too please.
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I am starting an "I hate fixx" campaign. Anyone wanna join.
2 kids and one mortgage (almost sanity compared to peanuthead)
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
fixx, I think you're crazy to be considering quitting.
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Absolutely. Get your nose back to that grindstone you nasty little subversive and stop underminig the fabric of civilisation. Who do you think you are, Che Guevara?
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| Layne wrote: |
I am starting an "I hate fixx" campaign. Anyone wanna join.
2 kids and one mortgage (almost sanity compared to peanuthead) |
Thanks everyone for the good wishes - it's exciting and scary. Why oh why isn't it winter yet? Another 3 and 1/2 months of work, sigh.
| peanuthead wrote: |
| fixx, I think you're crazy to be considering quitting. |
You know, part of me still thinks this too - this is the scary part! I've never not been in work or study before (I know I'm lucky, although have done things like juggle 3 part time jobs before, work full time while studying full time etc) and the financial impact is worrying, though I'm being rather conservative. We'll see - still lots to sort out with work.
And who knows, I may end up working full time still and only skiing weekends/holidays - which would still be great, and less stressful financially. But I do want some time off...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
You know, part of me still thinks this too - this is the scary part! I've never not been in work or study before (I know I'm lucky, although have done things like juggle 3 part time jobs before, work full time while studying full time etc) and the financial impact is worrying, though I'm being rather conservative. We'll see - still lots to sort out with work.
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What's the worst that can happen...
You end up having the summer off as well
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