 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone else find that most piste maps are a bit like the pre Harry Beck designed London Underground map? Has anyone every tried a a more diagrammatic form of map? I've had a go with part of the Tigne piste map. Link below to a pdf of it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sgx19wv0uvo826/Piste%20map.pdf
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dmac9, ha ha - that's quite good really, from a navigational point of view, but doesn't really give you any sense of the mountain, which piste maps are trying to do.
Remember that the LU map is effectively only needed in 2 dimensions and doesn't need to take any account of distances between stations. Piste maps are 3 dimensional and need to try and give a more accurate terrain based representation of what you are doing.
Not that they always succeed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good effort
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pretty good - I'd be tempted to simplify it by sticking to main routes per lift or by single grade e.g. all blues.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A map of that kind would be a great adjunct to a traditional map, in complicated areas. And if the length of runs were included alongside the names I don't think you'd need a lot more information.
OTOH a diagram of only blue runs wouldn't be so useful. Even if you planned to stick to blue runs you could find a run closed and need to find an alternative. I think piste maps often fail to give a real feel for 3-dimensions and can be very confusing.
Actually, I think my favourite configuration would be to have a diagrammatic map like that PLUS a decent topo map (the former could have links to key points (lift stations for example) on the latter.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
A map of that kind would be a great adjunct to a traditional map, in complicated areas. And if the length of runs were included alongside the names I don't think you'd need a lot more information.
Actually, I think my favourite configuration would be to have a diagrammatic map like that PLUS a decent topo map (the former could have links to key points (lift stations for example) on the latter. |
This would be my ideal too.
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dmac9, My favourite is a "proper" map (real scale, contours etc) with pistes superimposed on top - but the only one I have ever found is one you can buy of the Sella Ronda area - it is vastly better than trying to use conventional piste maps.
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+1 to the above
e.g. Castle Mountain, Alberta, Canada
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting idea. I love piste maps and always try to save one in good condition when we go away. I find that relating the terrain to the map helps me to remember the area, up to the point where I don't need to look at it anymore. I think it would be harder to get that relationship between map and mountain with this 2D idea, but it could be used to portray other info better.
Maybe if the length of the line related to the distance (or maybe time taken for slow lifts)? Use of arrows on all pistes, not just ambiguous lines, is a good idea. Making it clear what links up where, especially at the tops and bottoms of pistes, would probably be easier with this kind of map.
One thing you might lose is the relationship between one piste and another on the same mountain. An instructor once told me, "If a red piste and a blue piste run parallel down the same part of the mountain, the difference is political." This is easy to see on a standard piste map, and could probably be shown on the 2D type with some careful drawing.
Mike Pow, is it not because the map is showing a small area/one side of a mountain that it is simpler and easy to read? Big linked up Euro resorts get very complicated, though I have seen some nice maps of smaller parts of them e.g. Dolomiti superski which is spread over 12 maps, but take any one of the overview maps and you'd never find your way anywhere!
However, no matter how good/bad your map is, if it is accompanied by a good set of signposts and piste markers, you should be able to find your way...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think it's great! Much easier to understand.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can't make head nor tail of it and I'm very familiar with Tignes.
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holidayloverxx, but are you also familiar with the London Underground map? I know Tignes pretty well too and I think this is rather cool. Grant Huit seems to have lost it's "i" but that really is nit-picking. I would be interested to try to use a map like this in a resort I didn't already know well.
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You know it makes sense.
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dmac9, I like this. Kudos.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bogusman, oh yes, I am very familiar with the tube map (hence posting so early - commute starts in 45 minutes) and find such maps a doddle to read . I think I'm struggling with the tignes map because its horizontal when intuitively I want it to be vertical
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Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx, I found that they key to understanding was to use the lifts as my reference points. From there the pistes just fell into place in my mind. As I said though I would be very interested to use a map like this to get around an area I didn't already know.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ugly as sin, but get it. Like it. Understand it completely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Clear but surely it should be rotated 90 degrees? Up at top?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Interesting comments. I guess that a background colour could be added to indicate altitude in the same way that the Underground map shows the fare zones. I really only did it as a bit of fun although I do think it makes it easier to plan a route. I could easily separate the blue, red and black runs so they could be switched off if for example you only wanted to see blue runs. If I add the other side of the valley the map would make more sense as at present it only shows one side.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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dmac9, would be nice to present it in rough order of altitude top to bottom.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, yes, I think that's why I'm struggling with it
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Or plan view with broad contours.
Actually all ski maps would be awesome if they were topo - is it just stupidity of the general public that prevents this or cost/time/liability on the part of ski areas?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think that most piste maps are amazing examples of how to represent a complex ski area as simply and as easy to understand as possible. They artists who draw them represent the terrain, so you can usually work out what is steep and what is flat, the angles of departure where pistes split and leave lifts is accurately represented, the relative distance down the piste where events occur is accurate, restaurants and toilets are shown so they can be found, the large complex area is reduced to a small page that can be folded and slipped into the pocket and the whole lot looks beautiful. Amazing. Amazing cartography.
In fact they are pretty close to textbook cartography. All the features of good cartography are there: displacement, simplification, exaggeration, generalisation, classification, selection and symbolisation.
Topographical maps are essential for off piste skiing, but too bulky and hard to use for piste skiing. There is just too much information for the rapid assimilation needed for piste skiing.
At one point Val d'Isere offered a small booklet to accompany its piste map. This booklet included aerial photographs of the pistes with the pistes marked. I loved studying it (particularly to work out between piste cut offs) but it was just too bulky and I expect expensive to produce to catch on.
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I think the Portes du Soleil maps have the usual representation of the mountains for the whole area (which is a bit short on detail for someone new to the area) and on the reverse a similar thing for the local area. In recent years I have noticed a schematic that shows the key lifts to be followed to make up an itinerary round the "circuit" which I think has timings attached. That is useful.
What is a bit of a pain if you are not familiar with the area is the need to carry several maps if you want to get all the local areas in detail
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Personally, I much prefer the last one. It gives me a much better idea of the way things are laid out. However, I might add a graduated background (a la Harveys) to give a better feel for the shape of the hill - and a bit more colour!
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You know it makes sense.
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It is suprising how different each of these maps are. Pistes are marked on one, but not others, the second appears to leave out important lifts.
OK my views:
The first and third would probably be the best for navigating around the mountain. They contain the useful information. The first would be my number one choice.
The second is the most aesthetically pleasing. I am a great fan of Samivel. However it is useless.
The last one is clearly unfinished, it needs to include details on how to get to the start of the pistes for example and the names you are likely to find on the piste markers (very important in white out conditions). It works very well for this compact ski area. It may be improved by adding extra contour lines to give a real feel for the topography. A knife and fork may be a better symbol for a restaurant rather than a grouse like bird which I doubt is on the menu.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I agree; the last one is much easier to follow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting. While the 2nd is clearly the most functionally useless for navigation IMO it conveys the spirit of the mountain best and would probably most effective at keeping the relatively unskilled away from the more challenging terrain, conditions and uplift openings of the Ciste.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Give me some contour lines any day.
First time I went to cairngorm I took ages to realise i couldn't link the zig zags to a nice easy blue down the fiacall ridge as you can't see what's up and down on that bit of the map and given the often less than perfect visibility can't always match the map tp the terrain. At least with contours I'd have known it wasn't possible.
Largely I dislike piste maps for anything other than a very general overview before heading out for the day and prefer to sit on the lift and think "that looks nice/interesting/impossible/suicidal.
I suppose the other time I find them useful is in the race to get the last lift over the ridge, but have at times found myself facing an uphill trudge with the plank due to lack of contours.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Skiwelt used to do a normal map one side and something like the OP's on the back, added to the logical piste & lift numbering system I found it very easy to use. The lifts were numbered and the runs were numbered according to which lift they lead to, so lift 1 would have runs 1a, 1b, 1c etc but each individual run could have more than 1 number so a piste could be red 1a as well as blue 2a - the red run goes to lift 1 and the blue run to lift 2.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I rather like the fairly crap alpine ones. They all seem to be drawn by the same Frenchie if anyone's noticed?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I quite like dmac9, 's new map.
On a different note..... A few months ago I asked why N American resorts all seem to have serried ranks of runs all in parallel. Most people told me I was mistaken and as I haven't skiied there I am happy to acceot that. But...look at that Canadian piste map above. God does that look dull. It's like a map of Manhattan.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I can't see his new map. Do you need ans account to view it?
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Mosha Marc, the one in the OP? No account needed, it's still there.
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Mosha Marc, You should be able to view it simply by clicking the link. It's just a pdf
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I can't view it as "personal storage" is blocked at work. Would be much better to just place it as a pic in a post
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Not viewable to me either
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FAQ
And the return-you-home taxi drivers, and medical services if you didn't unwittingly end up on the wrong run? Restaurants on black runs would do no trade; the whole industry would fall apart if people actually knew where they were going 
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