 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
A couple of years ago I stuck a post up on here asking for advice between becoming an instructor and working for tour ops. I choose the TO route and have had a great few years with some wonderful people in some fantastic resorts, but now I've decided that I want to go for it as a snowboard instructor.
Over a few seasons of riding I've had plenty of contact with local snowboard instructors and they're of the opinion that my level is somewhere between a 2 and a 3, with a few tweaks and changes needed to fit into the BASI mold. With this in mind, I plan to take BASI L1 in a fridge when I get home, work the summer, and then take a BASI 2 at the start of the 13/14 season and make plenty of applications to mainly Swiss schools.
I speak French, decent Mandarin and rusty German, and I'm also hoping that a good few years of TO & snowsports retail experience will help me stand out. I can also ski a bit, and would be hopeful of scraping a L1 on skis to help fill out quiet weeks when there's little call for snowboard instruction.
A few questions:
1) Anyone see anything likely to go horribly wrong with my plan?
2) I'm really keen on working in Japan one day and exploring using my Chinese to teach Chinese holidaymakers - not sure how big that market is, but I can think of worse places to spend 6 months!. I gather that doing a season in Japan isn't an issue, but doing a second is with a lot of experience required for a full working visa - any advice here?
3) I'm also really keen on working on the west coast of the USA/Canada, and was going to go for a Canadian position until all the visas got snapped up within 30mins of the window opening... Is there any possibility of getting in here with my foundations teaching in Europe, or do they really want CASI qualifications?
4) I'm aware that the spring in Europe means that winter in NZ/Aus isn't a million miles away... Is there any chance of breaking even cashwise if I head down there and do NZ/Aus qualifications to work a season. If I do - how will those stack up if I want to work 13/14 in Switzerland, and how can I build on a L1/2 southern hemisphere qual once I'm teaching in Switzerland?
Thanks very much for any input!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jiagedaping, Good luck! You need to factor in 35 hours shadowing, 1st Aid course, online Child Protection Module and Basic Disclosure after your L1 course before you can work. Similar shadowing requirements after L2 also.
http://www.basi.org.uk/content/snowboard.aspx
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd go to learn in Japan you can learn and work getting NZ qualifications if this is where you want to end up. A friend teaches in Japan with a 2 plus Japanese add ons, English speaking instructors in demand and Japan recovering from radioactive scars now.
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In Japan there's really not a (legal) way around the 36 months prior experience requirement for the working visa. You'd be greatly in demand with Mandarin, especially at certain times of the year. Try and get experience first, then move there. I've worked there for 5 seasons and am a trainer for probably the largest english speaking school there, it's awesome, but quite a high staff turnover due to the visa problems.
Very little chance of breaking even cash-wise in NZ your first year, I barely ever did even without taking exams.
I'd go with where you can get visas at the moment, then move around once you are more employable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks.
Happy with the shadowing and other requirements, quite looking forward to it actually (as I guess I should be if it's what I want to do for the next 10years!) The only issue I see there is that a lot of people want to charge you to shadow, but I'm hopeful that few people I've met over the years will see me through there.
Jimmo - could you talk me through the alternative ways of teaching in Japan? Is it a case of being paid cash-in-hand, which I wouldn't be interested in, or are there some hoops you can jump through to get out there? I see a lot of ads on the BASI facebook page from Japanese ski schools wanting mandarin speaking instructors - really want to get out there while the iron's still hot...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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jiagedaping, I think Jimmo made it fairly clear - you need 36 months experience to get a working visa in Japan, (if you're British so don't qualify for a working holiday visa). So do a few seasons teaching somewhere else, then move to Japan.
Now I'm not an expert, but if you speak Mandarin, you could see if that would be enough to help an employer sponsor a visa for you before you have 36mths experience. From my own experience with working visas the employer usually needs to demonstrate there are no local residents suitably experienced or qualified. If they are in desperate need of Mandarin speaking ski instructors, why not give it a go? I suggest you contact the ski schools and ask them. Maybe Jimmo can advise if this might work.
I wouldn't worry about the iron cooling off - not going to happen anytime soon. The number of skiers in China has increased from about 20,000 to 2m in the last 10 yrs. 50% of the world's population live within a 5hr direct flight of Sapporo (compared to about 20 or 30% in Europe). It is a part of the world with a rapidly growing middle class - who love to buy designer brands, eat expensive food, and do activities that wealthy westerners like to do, to demonstrate status. Oh - and the snow is endless! No need for snow making or worry about global warming in Japan!
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
Thanks.
Happy with the shadowing and other requirements, quite looking forward to it actually (as I guess I should be if it's what I want to do for the next 10years!) The only issue I see there is that a lot of people want to charge you to shadow, but I'm hopeful that few people I've met over the years will see me through there.
Jimmo - could you talk me through the alternative ways of teaching in Japan? Is it a case of being paid cash-in-hand, which I wouldn't be interested in, or are there some hoops you can jump through to get out there? I see a lot of ads on the BASI facebook page from Japanese ski schools wanting mandarin speaking instructors - really want to get out there while the iron's still hot... |
You can do one season there on a working holiday, after that it's either be sponsored or be illegal, no matter how much a school may want you, they can't get around the visa requirements. One exception to this is club med in sahoro, which apparently can get you a visa as an entertainer, but the pay is average and you have to do evening shows etc on top of instructing.
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jiagedaping, A friend works for a Japanese ski school but has tax problems so can be a little shady.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you want to work in Europe and Switzerland in particular I would consider binning off the BASI idea and take a more German friendly qualification like the Austrian Anwaerter / Landes courses. I did my Dual ski/board Anwaerter Licence with Ski Instructor Academy in Kaprun / Zell am See who were fantastic, great trainers and they guaranteed a job at the end of the course in Austria which is what swayed me. I got a qualification equivalent to BASI 2 and CSIA 2 which seems to be accepted all over the place, I still speak to people on Facebook from my course who are teaching all over incl. Canada, Europe, S. Africa and NZ - not sure about Japan though, sorry! Oh and the course had a german course included in it too which was really good for the exams and for living in Austria too. There were people on my course who had previously done BASI and CSIA courses but couldnt get work in Europe still except for peak season weeks where ski schools tend to employ pretty much anyone with half a qualification.
The BASI courses seemed expensive in comparison for what was on offer and didnt really give much security about getting a job at the end, plus there were people on this forum who put me off with the politics with BASI. I guess you can never compare properly unless you have done both systems, but I can definitely recommend the route I took with the Austrian qualification and I think everyone on the course with me would agree - best experience of my life.
Just one mans opinion!
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Reality is the vast majortiy of BASI gap students are just taking time out, want to improve their sking and have a good time and and don't do any more than a causal bit of instructing at most. Don't see a problem in that at all. I think this looks a really good option if you really do want to work as a ski instructor. You can still do BASI and then convert and I certainly think that is worth doing as I understand that Anwärters get better pay and work than BASI level 2 even though those you have done it say the exam is a lower standard. BASI has the benefitt of familiarity and option of doing level 1 in UK. Does make a lot of sense doing the most available local qualfiaction for where you want to work though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Given that there are so many superlative skiers in Austria, I always find it surprising that quite ordinary foreign skiers can get "guaranteed jobs" as instructors. Are there not enough Austrian youngsters, who are already good skiers, to snap up the jobs available, especially as they will all speak fluent German and normally at least one "foreign" language as well?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Given that there are so many superlative skiers in Austria, I always find it surprising that quite ordinary foreign skiers can get "guaranteed jobs" as instructors. Are there not enough Austrian youngsters, who are already good skiers, to snap up the jobs available, especially as they will all speak fluent German and normally at least one "foreign" language as well? |
pam w, It doesn't always follow though as we hear time & again, the best skiers don't always make the best instructors.
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And it doesn't necessarily mean that the Austrian youngsters actually want to be instructors/do the course.
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You know it makes sense.
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Apparently there's a lot of Dutch people taking the Anwarter and teaching in Austria these days, guess as with everywhere, there's a demand for people who may not be the greatest skiers, but are happy to teach kids in exchange for not too much cash and a pass.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
the best skiers don't always make the best instructors.
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indeed, and just because you've "done the course" that doesn't make you a good instructor, either! My daughter is a sailing dinghy instructor and actually enjoys teaching (she did quite a bit of instructing in her teenage years though now, with a teaching job and two young kids, has no time for dinghy instructing) but a lot of the lads who did the course at the same time just wanted a passport to a nice summer job in the Greek Islands. Some of them were top junior racing helms and very technically able dinghy sailors (much more so than my daughter, who has never been into racing) but they weren't actually interested in teaching nervous beginners, whilst she was.
I wonder why Austrian youngsters don't, apparently, want to do it in sufficient numbers when French ones (and Italian, and Swiss) presumably, do - you don't hear of people going and "doing a course" and getting a guaranteed job in Italy or Switzerland, either.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="pam w"]
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Some of them were top junior racing helms and very technically able dinghy sailors (much more so than my daughter, who has never been into racing) but they weren't actually interested in teaching nervous beginners, whilst she was.
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Very similar to the Austrian young gun skiers I should imagine and sort of answers your own question.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Very similar to the Austrian young gun skiers I should imagine and sort of answers your own question
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no it absolutely doesn't. My point there was that whilst being a hot shot racer doesn't make you a good instructor, simply "doing a course" doesn't, either, whether you start as a "young gun" or just a good holiday skier who wants to get better. My query was about why Austrian young guns are apparently so different from Swiss, French or Italian young guns? As we have discussed many a time and oft, there are plenty of "young gun" (and indeed old gun) instructors in France.
I am not talking here about the different quality of instruction in different countries, but about the labour market situation. Maybe there are just far more opportunities available to Austrian youngsters (who wouldn't have to be hot shot racing skiers before they do the Anwaerter course, any more than the Brits are.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ok no worries then...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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According to the fully qualified instructors and Austrians I know the answer is the speed test in France and Italy which restricts the supply of instructors and means that you can earn a decent living in these countries as a ski instructor which is harder to do in Austria such that you even see Austrian ski instructors working in France. French Ski instructor is qualified and viewed like any other teaching qualification. Ski instructing is not seen as such an attractive long term employment option in Austria. The reality is that as a young instructor you are teaching beginners and lower level instructors. If you come from Austria and have ready access to mountains then you would rather be skiing. If you are Dutch then working with kids for lower wages is more attractive as you are getting access to the mountains that you would not otherwise have and also chances are you can speak English and German.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jiagedaping,
I wouldn't worry too much about which system you subscribe to initially. All of them are given an international equivalence, level 1-3 in systems such as BASI, CSIA, PSIA/AASI, APSI, NZSIA, SSS, AADIDE etc are all pretty much treated the same. Level III will give you their full cert status and with other modules an ISIA stamp. This is slightly different at their top level exams (Level IV/ISTD/Trainer/Diploma) as some will not get you the ISTD/ISIA card (which is what you need to work in France, where the money is). The main thing to consider is where you want to go. Each country likes their own system the best. Working in Austria, you'll probably need to take you Antwarter (Level I). Switzerland will take BASI second after SSS and you won't be allowed to teach off piste unless you achieve Swiss Patente (their trainer level). Canadians prefer CASI but you can work there with any certs.
Working for a gaijin ski school in Japan, most of them are operated by Aussies and Kiwis so those are the certs they like best. As covered before, sponsorship through instructing is pending a minimum 36 months experience teaching (about 10 seasons worth). The backdoor route to stay there is to apply to be an English teacher on a multi year program (such as JET) and work teaching English in the summer months/ride in the winter. This will get you 3 years as far as I know.
USA you have a very long shot of working in unless you have a US passport. 99% of US ski resorts have had their visa allowance dry up so foreign workers on US ski hills are rare. If you can show a J1 visa (their student visa) you should be able to get a job. The few people I know who have managed to keep their visa have their trainers diploma.
You make much more money in Aus than in NZ, if you want to break even thats where I would go. Expect to get rained on 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 2-05-13 18:12; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think skiing standard for Anwarter is some way below BASI L2 or CSIA II. Possibly not much above BASI L1 except that latter is intended for artificial slopes only. AIUI it's great if you're intending on working in Austria/Germany, otherwise for a Brit, better off with BASI or CSIA.
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| boog wrote: |
jiagedaping,
I wouldn't worry too much about which system you subscribe to initially. All of them are given an international equivalence, level 1-3 in systems such as BASI, CSIA, PSIA/AASI, APSI, NZSIA, SSS, AADIDE etc are all pretty much treated the same. Level III will give you their full cert status and with other modules an ISIA stamp. This is slightly different at their top level exams (Level IV/ISTD/Trainer/Diploma) as some will not get you the ISTD/ISIA card (which is what you need to work in France, where the money is). The main thing to consider is where you want to go. Each country likes their own system the best. Working in Austria, you'll probably need to take you Antwarter (Level I). Switzerland will take BASI second after SSS and you won't be allowed to teach off piste unless you achieve Swiss Patente (their trainer level). Canadians prefer CASI but you can work their with any certs.
Working for a gaijin ski school in Japan, most of them are operated by Aussies and Kiwis so those are the certs they like best. As covered before, sponsorship through instructing is pending a minimum 36 months experience teaching (about 10 seasons worth). The backdoor route to stay there is to apply to be an English teacher on a multi year program (such as JET) and work teaching English in the summer months/ride in the winter. This will get you 3 years as far as I know.
USA you have a very long shot of working in unless you have a US passport. 99% of US ski resorts have had their visa allowance dry up so foreign workers on US ski hills are rare. If you can show a J1 visa (their student visa) you should be able to get a job. The few people I know who have managed to keep their visa have their trainers diploma.
You make much more money in Aus than in NZ, if you want to break even thats where I would go. Expect to get rained on |
Agree with a lot of this, but as far as I'm aware ISIA has little to no relevance to France/Italy, even if you have the ISIA card (rare), or are a trainer/examiner, you'll still have to do the ET to be able to teach.
U.S. for the O and P visas you have to be highly qualified, pay for the visa and a lawyer to help you get it. Some resorts still do H2Bs though, mainly for L3s, but some for L2s, nowhere near as many as before, but still worth a go.
Sounds like there's definitely more cash (and rain) in Aus, where'd you work there?
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| slikedges wrote: |
| I think skiing standard for Anwarter is some way below BASI L2 or CSIA II. Possibly not much above BASI L1 except that latter is intended for artificial slopes only. AIUI it's great if you're intending on working in Austria/Germany, otherwise for a Brit, better off with BASI or CSIA. |
Incorrect!
I tried to get a VISA for a second season in Canada after my first in Austria with Anwaerter licence, I spoke to a few of ski schools and they all said they would accept this licence and would view it as a CSIA L2 equivalent. (still didnt manage to get a visa though ) 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Also the BASI 1, as you mentioned allows you to teach beginners on artificial slopes only.
Anwaerter allowed me to teach adults and kids up to intermediate level in resort.
I know everyone on here has there own opinions, but if you are not speaking from experience then I probably wouldnt guess about answers. I had a nightmare deciding where to train because of everyone and their dogs conflicting 'facts' clouding my judgement. In the end I was happy with my choice and if I had to do it all again I would do it exactly the same way.
Good luck to the original poster who asked the question.
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People who have done both tell me that Anwaeter is effectively recognised for work purposes as BASI 2 but that the standard of sking required is more like BASI 1 which does mean it makes sense to start off with the Anwärter if you are really looking to start work as soon as possible. Also I understand that Anwärters typically get more work/pay than BASI level 2 in Austria. Certainly sems the route to go if you want to work in Austria
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jimmer wrote: |
Agree with a lot of this, but as far as I'm aware ISIA has little to no relevance to France/Italy, even if you have the ISIA card (rare), or are a trainer/examiner, you'll still have to do the ET to be able to teach.
Sounds like there's definitely more cash (and rain) in Aus, where'd you work there? |
Eurotest is the other part of the process. I think you can only sit the eurotest if you're part of certain systems though with their top level certs. I wasn't exactly clear.
I worked a couple of seasons at Hotham and am off to Perisher this year 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| boog wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
Agree with a lot of this, but as far as I'm aware ISIA has little to no relevance to France/Italy, even if you have the ISIA card (rare), or are a trainer/examiner, you'll still have to do the ET to be able to teach.
Sounds like there's definitely more cash (and rain) in Aus, where'd you work there? |
Eurotest is the other part of the process. I think you can only sit the eurotest if you're part of certain systems though with their top level certs. I wasn't exactly clear.
I worked a couple of seasons at Hotham and am off to Perisher this year |
Yeah, I'm not certain which certs allow you just take the ET either, I think it might be a case by case process.
Perisher, nice, do you know which base yet? I hear Jindy is a lot of fun, I don't think the money there matches up to the pay in Hotham though.
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I'm working front valley. Never been to Jindy but I hear its fun and a little more rounded than being up at Hotham/DP. The pay's good at Perisher but not as much as at Hotham.
You worked there?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I worked at Thredbo last year and lived in Jindy... It is lots of fun, you guys will have a great time there especially Banjos and LJs...
As far as the Eurotest, I know that you can take it if you've got BASI 2 and know a friend who got it when he was CSIA 2
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Poster: A snowHead
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| boog wrote: |
I'm working front valley. Never been to Jindy but I hear its fun and a little more rounded than being up at Hotham/DP. The pay's good at Perisher but not as much as at Hotham.
You worked there? |
No, but I work in Niseko, which is pretty much the same as Australia really, so I hear a lot about all the different resorts, you'll definitely meet some of my friends in Perisher. Pete almost certainly knows a lot of my school already, as we have a bigger link with Thredbo than Perisher. I used to work in NZ in the summers but now I go to Chile, I like the idea of an actual summer in Aus but the skiing doesn't tempt me too much.
Re. the eurotest, yes you can take it as CSIA 2, but I really doubt you can then get the carte pro/equivalence, maybe allowed to work as a stagiere?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jimmer, bizarrely, you can't work as a stagier with the Eurotest. You have to pass the Test Technique, even though this is theoretically "easier" (if you can ski slalom!).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi there
Interesting post: if you start with anwarter, can you then sidestep into BASI 3 & eurotest?
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FAQ
