Thanks for the current suggestions. I'm slowly trying to pull the ideas into a coherent piece which maybe we can sticky somewhere. If you can post the official piste name it would be helpful. Any suggestions for a good title too. Thread is for stuff that is really beyond le Tunnel at ADH or Grand Couloir but still an official piste that opens at least 1 day a season - unlike the Tunnel at VdI
Nordkette looks interesting but I couldn't find the run on the piste map. Swiss Wall/Chavanette seems like it should be there but is it just too well known? Ditto Charles Bozon at Chamonix.
Intro
Expert skier? Getting a bit bored about the blacks you find in resort? Here are a list of a few runs that will still make you think twice. Runs that are officially marked but really beyond black.
1. Pas de Chien, les 7 Laux, France
After an airy traverse you drop into a steep bum clenching couloir which then opens out onto wider slopes below. Opened in 2011, it was a former freerider's spot opened up by the new Oursiere charlift. Check out the Bedina back bowls while you are in the resort and the Combe de Pra black.
2. The Balmes, Aussois, French Maurienne
OffPisteSkiing http://www.offpisteskiing.com writes "Some nice intro pitches then you hit the main section which to me seemed very similar to the Gd Couloir in Courchevel in terms of steepness and big bumpiness only 3 times as long... A real hidden gem!"
The run starts at 2700 meters to finish at the placename of Les Balmes at 1900m. South facing it doesn't open very often.
3. Couloir Tournier, Courchevel, France
Apart from the Grand Couloir most of the Three Valleys' blacks are pretty tame so the self acclaimed biggest ski area in the world had to up its game. A long time off piste link between Courchevel and Méribel it has recently be turned into an official black complete with video cameras to film your run. Patch writes "the Couloir Tournier on the Méribel side of the Saulire is about 38° for the top half. Narrower, and perhaps marginally steeper than the Grand Couloir. However, I estimate that it was closed about 90% of the season"
4. Flypaper (Stial nach Cuileag), Glencoe, Scotland
Moffatross and others: "Glencoe is a gem amongst the Scottish ski centres and whilst some of the back corrie entrances at Nevis have steeper entrances, they quickly mellow out to 35 degrees or less which makes the Flypaper the only 40 degree plus, sustained, marked run in Scotland. Mistakes on the Fly usually result in rag-dolling and its nature (windslab, fall-line rocks etc) mean respect is always due. It is as thrilling as any 'black run' or piste map dotted line marked couloir I have skied anywhere in Euroland"
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 5-05-13 23:18; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Paquerettes in Tignes must be up there in steepness. Short but seems unequivocally steeper than the steep part of Face which I believe is around 32/33 degrees?
Harakiri in Mayrhofen is the steepest piste I've ever encountered (38 degrees). I want to go back and do it again one day, and next time not be too scared to turn and end up going down face first
When I did Face in March, the steep bit somehow didn't seem very steep, but the conditions were excellent. Never tried Paquerettes but Campanules was quite steep at the top.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
^^ I do love the marketing vids for the Harikiri piste:
Having never been there, is it really 38º for any appreciable distance? Must be a ball-ache to groom...
No, it's quite short, but it is bloody steep!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
davidof, the Balmes black run at Aussois - some nice intro pitches, and then you hit the main section which to me seemed very similar to the Gd Couloir in Courchevel (in terms of steepness and big bumpiness) only 3 times as long... A real hidden gem!
After all it is free
After all it is free
The diretissima in Kitzbühel is 70%, so about 35°. Also quite steep considering it is quite often really icy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Steilhang, 70% more like 31 or 32 degrees
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davidof, the Couloir Tournier on the Méribel side of the Saulire is about 38° for the top half. Narrower, and perhaps marginally steeper than the Grand Couloir, it was made a marked run this season. However, I estimate that it was closed about 90% of the season
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
offpisteskiing wrote:
davidof, the Balmes black run at Aussois - some nice intro pitches, and then you hit the main section which to me seemed very similar to the Gd Couloir in Courchevel (in terms of steepness and big bumpiness) only 3 times as long... A real hidden gem!
Interesting. Nordkette in the photo above looks good too.
I'm told that the lachat in Grand Bornand is pretty steep.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
clarky999, those vids are hilarious
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
davidof, ooh yes - had forgotten about the Lachat - normally have a day over there with extended family most years & spent some formative years skiing LGB/Chinaillon & Col de la Croix Fry many many moons ago... definitely puts some of the 3V 'black' pistes in their place.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
offpisteskiing wrote:
Col de la Croix Fry many many moons ago... definitely puts some of the 3V 'black' pistes in their place.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Tardivel learned to ski at Croix Fry so it must have something going for it.... beyond Mullets, One Pieces and disco head bands
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof, hey, theres nothing wrong with a disco headband... one pieces arguably have a place (great for keeping out waist deep powder...! ), as for the mullets I can't disagree
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So..... Is the flypaper a "piste" ?
Measured at 40-45 degrees on the fall line, depending how much it has banked out.
Though it is quite short.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Haggis_Trap, I'd always thought of it as a piste.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A hige surprise to me (as the rest of the mountain isn't exactly challenging) was "Ripcord" at Mount Snow, VT. 37 degrees of icy bumps.
Okay offpisteskiing, what's your estimate of that little snicket between Émile Allais and Gd Couloir?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Patch wrote:
davidof, the Couloir Tournier on the Méribel side of the Saulire is about 38° for the top half. Narrower, and perhaps marginally steeper than the Grand Couloir, it was made a marked run this season. However, I estimate that it was closed about 90% of the season
davidof, the Couloir Tournier on the Méribel side of the Saulire is about 38° for the top half. Narrower, and perhaps marginally steeper than the Grand Couloir, it was made a marked run this season. However, I estimate that it was closed about 90% of the season
Not on my piste map.
No, they "forgot" to put it on the map. They did, however, equip it with a camera, so that holidaymakers attempting their first black run can film themselves and put it on youtube
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
peanuthead wrote:
Steilhang, 70% more like 31 or 32 degrees
I think you'll find that InvTan (0,7) = 34.99
You can look it up here.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Patch wrote:
davidof wrote:
Patch wrote:
davidof, the Couloir Tournier on the Méribel side of the Saulire is about 38° for the top half. Narrower, and perhaps marginally steeper than the Grand Couloir, it was made a marked run this season. However, I estimate that it was closed about 90% of the season
Not on my piste map.
No, they "forgot" to put it on the map. They did, however, equip it with a camera, so that holidaymakers attempting their first black run can film themselves and put it on youtube
ah cheers patch, i didn't think you would be confused and I've now found some information
that would seem to be a pretty steep piste indeed. Thanks for the heads up.
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steepest "piste" i have skied on mainland europe is piculin at kronplatz... backs at nevis are steeper but not a "piste"
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davidof, no worries, give me a shout next season if you're in the area and want someone to ski it with, and a beer afterwards
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Calling something a 'piste' can lead to false expectations and runs shouldn't be called pistes unless they're occasionally 'pisted' IMV.
Adding to Haggis_Trap's comments, almost every marked run at Glencoe east of the main basin looks like the one in davidhof's photo and none of them are groomed or even groomable. That's what makes Glencoe such a gem amongst the Scottish ski centres and whilst some of the back corrie entrances at Nevis have steeper entrances, they quickly mellow out to 35 degrees or less which makes the Flypaper the only 40 degree plus, sustained, marked run in Scotland. Unlike the Hari-Kari video backslide, mistakes on the Fly usually result in rag-dolling and its nature (windslab, fall-line rocks etc) mean respect is always due. It's not a run that you could imagine the ski centre setting up a video camera "so that holidaymakers attempting their first black run can film themselves and put it on youtube". You'd inevitably end up making a snuff movie
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
All the blacks at Grand Bornand are indeed fairly serious. I never got round to doing them / bottled out *
*delete as appropriate.
Did a tour of most of the blacks at neighbouring La Clusaz one day though. Vraille and Lapiaz both consistently steeper than most blacks I've done (hilarious that something like e.g. Jockeys in the 3Vs is the same grading as Vraille!) but the one that's clenched my buttocks both times I've tried is called simply 'La Noire'. It's not especially sustained, but a couple of bits are bloody steep, and one of them fairly narrow.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
moffatross wrote:
"so that holidaymakers attempting their first black run can film themselves and put it on youtube".
That was tongue in cheek. I would hope nobody would attempt Tournier as their first black, but personally would have preferred they had left it unmarked and un-camera'ed
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So what is the steepest run that is fairly regularly groomed with a winchcat? Glencoe + Winchcat = Marketing Opportunity!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Some other ideas
the KL at Vars, anyone skied it? Apparently the Chavanette is "easy" in comparison
and the Coni at Vars
and the Black Diamond at Flaine
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
moffatross wrote:
Calling something a 'piste' can lead to false expectations and runs shouldn't be called pistes unless they're occasionally 'pisted' IMV.
I think the verb is groomed. The idea that all pistes are groomed is very recent and has led to an expectation which has led to the word "pisted" (which is not necessarily the case). As far as I am concerned if a run is marked as a piste it is a piste.
Is an itinerary a piste? Probably not. It is a legitimate question but a question about semantics rather than about facts. I am assuming pistes means those runs marked as Green/blue/red/black but I have seen the word used to include itineraries.
Nevis piste map shows Chancer and others in the main back bowl as black pistes (at least at the top), but Spikes is marked as an itinerary and Easy Gully is not marked.
Chancer is very steep at the top, but how steep depends where you measure it or how sustained a slope must be. In this case the steepness is less the further you go down. Normally steep runs are measured at the steepest section but over what minimum length of slope should the measurement be made? I don't know if Chancer qualifies for this thread. Is the steep bit too short?
The far side of this slope is the steep bit of Chancer.
Edit: sorry, the piste map seems to have been changed. They are now all itineraries (and Spikes is a back-country itinerary). However they do have their own chair lift (which only runs some of the time).
The question about steepness is still relevant, though, and the claimed steepness of many runs seems to be based on a very short segment.
The Aussois run I had thought was off piste and as such seemed good but not especially steep - however I see that the piste map does show it as a piste (though as far as I know it is never groomed) so I should rethink.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 7-05-13 11:06; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The Piste de l'Aigle at Zinal is the only piste I've seen with zig zag nets right across it to catch falling skiers....but can't find any pics or indications of steepness....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski, not sure it's super steep but it does get very icey and sliding into the stream at the bottom would spoil your day
Calling something a 'piste' can lead to false expectations and runs shouldn't be called pistes unless they're occasionally 'pisted' IMV.
I think the verb is groomed. The idea that all pistes are groomed is very recent and has led to an expectation which has led to the word "pisted" (which is not necessarily the case). As far as I am concerned if a run is marked as a piste it is a piste.
Is an itinerary a piste? Probably not. It is a legitimate question but a question about semantics rather than about facts. I am assuming pistes means those runs marked as Green/blue/red/black but I have seen the word used to include itineraries.
You've confirmed the point I was making.
snowball wrote:
I don't know if Chancer qualifies for this thread. Is the steep bit too short?
They are now all itineraries (and Spikes is a back-country itinerary). However they do have their own chair lift (which only runs some of the time).
'Some of the time' being a metaphor for a few hours every couple of years.
But yes, since Chancer would get a flat out refusal from many or most Euro 'black run' skiers, it would definitely have qualified for this thread, if it was still a marked black run. And when you can't even see the run-out, it's mostly about the run-in ...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Chancer looked perfect. I wonder why they have reclassified them all?
Dropping in to Chancer's at Nevis Range from Ed Daynes
Nordkette looks interesting but I couldn't find the run on the piste map.
The top two diamonds (and red lines)mark the couloirs:
Classed as ski routes rather than pistes, not sure how that differs from the others above as they don't look groomed either? I think pretty much anything left ungroomed (but marked) here counts as a ski route, they don't seem to do ungroomed pistes. Either way, they're marked and avi controlled.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Perhaps this thread should just be for marked routes rather than blacks, specifically.
Incvidentally I thought from the title this was just going to be a best blacks poll. This is an interesting variant.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Mr Pieholeo, I have bottled all blacks at La Clusaz and LGB I will freely admit I don't have the courage and my technique, while not terrible, is still lacking.
Lapiaz looks terrifying. Couldn't see much of La Noire that well so didn't do it either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I note that the chap "dropping in" to Chancer had to pull his undercarriage up to increase hang time for the camera.
Looks lovely.
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under a new name, he kind of has to going so slowly off the edge otherwise he'd be pitched forward by the tails and/or wouldn't get into the right position at all and crash spectacularly. Either way, punting off cornices is fun.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
- unlike the Tunnel at VdI
