 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
FlyingStantoni, I know, i was just amused by red_sledge, fine explanation of what i was missing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| jjc wrote: |
| What I have said tho is that this is not the reason they are not passing. |
What do you consider be the reason then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
FlyingStantoni, They may have considered it but they say they make no distinction.
They have also considered the age argument with the Eurotest and decided to make no distinction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| jjc wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni, I know, i was just amused by red_sledge, fine explanation of what i was missing. |
Sorry, I had missed that comment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| jjc wrote: |
| They have also considered the age argument with the Eurotest and decided to make no distinction. |
Surely, if age difference has been properly considered and discounted then there will be proper analysis to support that assertion. Show me the data and I'll quite happily shut up!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| jjc wrote: |
| They have also considered the age argument with the Eurotest and decided to make no distinction. |
Surely, if age difference has been properly considered and discounted then there will be proper analysis to support that assertion. Show me the data and I'll quite happily shut up! |
+ 1
This information should be readily available as BASI is governed by the Companies Act and the Directors owe a 'Duty of Care' to all the shareholders(members).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
What amazes me is that two people who are sports coaches won't acknowledge that there is any loss in physical performance with age...
|
No we won't acknowledge that having an age allowance will change anything as current candidates are too far off! Perhaps if some of the people on here got training and showing what they can and can't do it would be a different case. But 5-10 seconds off when other older people are passing (french mainly but some brits) is a silly amount of time.
| Quote: |
Surely, if age difference has been properly considered and discounted then there will be proper analysis to support that assertion. Show me the data and I'll quite happily shut up!
|
Thats fair, have you asked for it properly? On here doesn't count.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jjc james,
| Quote: |
No we won't acknowledge that having an age allowance will change anything as current candidates are too far off!
|
To far off what? To far off a test standard that is intended to do what?
Perhaps it is the Eurotest standard that is to far off being fit for purpose.
You have often made reference to the need to use the race training skill while working with clients who are using the French Ski School system for race training. BASI now has a 'coach' qualification system which seems to cover the same stuff that you allude to doing for some of your ASF clients.
Is there a similar qualification in the French system to the new BASI coaching structure?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
[quote="beanie1"]
| Quote: |
I also asked Dave Renouf to consider the suggestion that the Eurotest requirement is based on a safety requirement.
Dave is quite clear that the Eurotest is an objective tool (based on time) that provides evidence of your technical ability to perform in a mountain environment. The Mountain Safety Module is more relevant to demonstrate an individuals’ ability to perform safely in a range of mountain terrain and conditions.
Here is an extract from Dave’s article in the latest BASI news 105 (which is literally just out):
The Eurotest is an exam, and as
with all exams, the aim is to try to
be as consistent as possible for
each exam and each candidate,
whether doing an academic or
vocational exam. The aim of the
Eurotest exam, as one of many
elements within the various nations’
syllabi to qualify professional
snowsport instructors, is to:
• Have a system of measuring a
candidate’s ability, in an as
objective way as possible
(i.e. a time on the stop watch),
to perform movement patterns
appropriate to a professional
snowsport instructor (as defined
in the EU Commission’s
documentation on the Mutual
Recognition of Professional
Qualifications (MRPQ) directive). |
I cannot believe this statement.
For the past 10 years the French have had a degoration(?) for the Eurotest on SAFETY grounds. Are BASI now saying that it is not a safety test but a technical test?
Have BASI altered their opinion so Telemark, Adaptive, Snowboard qualifications become 'legal' in France without a Eurotest?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
things have shifted here a bit and lots of knowledgable guys are saying "if you want to work in France, the ET is here to to stay but there are other places to work outside of France" True but lets not forget that if / when this EU card gets ratified into law the ET will be part of it.
The implications are not clear but one outcome is the "French model" becomes law within the whole of the EU and unless you are a Card holder you are effectively a trainee... THIS is what scares me. I could care less about becoming established and working in France full time. What ever happened to BASI's support of the ISIA pyramid structure, sounds they have quietly abandoned the ISIA while on the outside saying they will support ISIA and FEMP's
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Other things that are excising people
1) The BASI statement that they are not discriminatory as 19% of over 30's have passed. Can we see the analysis and the raw data supporting this claim?
2) That the Eurotest is a fair. BASI started sending a TD to every ET run with members in attendance to ensure fairness (begs the ? why they felt the need), She compiled a report and we had heard that it would be made public but it never has. Can the members at least get a summary?
3) A begrudging acceptance that perhaps it does get a little harder with age... However with the correct training anyone can pass the ET, just gets a little harder if your 30+, harder still if 40+ (hey there is an opener in his 40's), very hard if your 50+ (but Danny McCabe passed at 52 so can be done) and still possible if your 60+ (rumours of a phantom Austrian passing) is all the proof we need to say that the ET is NOT unfair to older members, surely if one old guy can pass it is a fair test overall. This argument doesn't stack up as FlyingStantoni keeps reminding us. Again, Can we see the data that shows this.
4) Due to the pressure of this thread BASI have started to publish meeting minutes and policy docs, this is a good step forward in addressing the concerns of lack of transparency. Can we have more transparency please?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Hi skimottaret, nothing personal, but sorry I have to ask.
Why are you doing this?
I don't know if you're right about the Eurotest or not (not really bothered to tell you the truth) but if you have a problem with BASI, then, as a member, why don’t you just ring Gareth and talk about it - he has always seemed a fair bloke to me and I have never heard of him not willing to talk about BASI "stuff" with anyone.
If you honestly feel that BASI are running courses that don’t comply with the law then you can (as a member) propose that the system is changed and ask for this to be voted on at an AGM. If the majority of voting members agree with you, then BASI will have to change, if they don’t, then they won’t.
If you (as you obviously do) feel that strongly that you are in some way being held back due to the system BASI has put in place, why not apply to join another association – note that in most regions in Italy the Eurotest (legal or not) is taken on the 1st day of the training, so I'd suggest somewhere different.
Lots of my (Italian) mates are members of BASI (includeing one in the ski school I work at), and for various reasons they chose our route over that offered by the AMSI, and I know of 2 French people (there may be more) who have chosen BASI over their own national association, and my good mate Igor – Russian - thinks BASI is the bee’s knees, which is why he joined.
Oh and the "why are you doing this" means why are you doing this here ? I don't have a problem with anyone suggesting alterations to the BASI methods - but come on, there is a time and a place .... and now may be the time, but this ain't the right place.
I understand the old saying "he who shouts loudest gets heard", but this thread is doing nothing but bring BASI into disrepute. You really should just stop.
That’s me out of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wayne, I think beanie1 has previously acknowledged BASI don't have their own online forum which would strike me as the appropriate place to air this sort of dirty laundry. That said it isn't that dirty and to an outsider quite amusing at the degree of self denial going on in French/ISTD circles - the suggestion that the ET is a test of safety being the most risible of all in a system which does not require mandatory ET recertification say every 3 years.
Separately I have a question - given my cursory reading of some of the preceeding, it seems that someone who is a passable snowboarder might be better getting through the system and accepted to teach in France as a boarder before switching back to skiing. Is this a correct interpretation? Be interestng to se eif anyone has got through this loophole.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Why? Read the 25 pages to try to work it out... Because although i agree with a timed test I dont think the ET in its current format is fair, is mainly a barrier to entry to restrict the pool of Full Cert instructors and is disproportionately stopping older members from even entering the L3 L4 pathway. I have written to (along with 24 other members) and spoken to BASI leadership about the age discrimination issue and lack of transparency. Given our association is negotiating a EU wide card that will contain a Eurotest the time is now to try to negotiate any modifications before the criteria goes into Law as opposed to a loose agreement of instructor associations.
I do not feel held back personally (with the exception of age discrimination) nor do i feel i am bringing my association into "disrepute", rather a big charge to level ???
Why should i stop talking in public about an important issue that 1,000's of members are affected by but few even know that is happening.
ps thanks for your efforts on getting me my shiny expensive basi newsletter in the post 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Wayne, sorry we can agree to disagree on pubic debate and spreading the word via the internet.. over and out on this subject 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| fatbob wrote: |
Wayne
Separately I have a question - given my cursory reading of some of the preceeding, it seems that someone who is a passable snowboarder might be better getting through the system and accepted to teach in France as a boarder before switching back to skiing. Is this a correct interpretation? Be interestng to se eif anyone has got through this loophole. |
There is a fully cert snowboard instructor who took his Level 1 ski a few years ago and failed (it was either his L1 or possibly his L2)... anyway he had been teaching some beginners up until that moment in time on skis.... having failed the course a few people politely asked him not to teach on skis anymore as it was a little embarrassing and brought the 'British' instructor into disrepute... he obliged and has never been seen on skis since.
On a separate note I think one issue that BASI should also throw into the mix is why some scandinavian nations get their members as stagieres in France without needing the Test Technique... that is definitely a case of one rule for one and one rule for another!
For what its worth as an ISTD teaching in France I think the Eurotest should have an age allowance % pass time difference. However I also hear the sentiments some people have about voicing their opinions for fear of being 'black-listed' within BASI.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Steve Angus wrote: |
| On a separate note I think one issue that BASI should also throw into the mix is why some scandinavian nations get their members as stagieres in France without needing the Test Technique... that is definitely a case of one rule for one and one rule for another!. |
On the same point Steve, from next season some people from "some" countries (“not” BASI) will be allowed to work - full season - in our region (Trentino - where the vast majority of Italian resorts are) with the equivalent of BASI L2.
Now “that” really should not be allowed. But hey, as I’ve said about the French, it’s their country so they can do what they want – regardless of EU law or even if it right or fair.
| Steve Angus wrote: |
| being 'black-listed' within BASI. |
I'm not sure that happens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Wayne,
I arrived at Snowheads quite by chance, I think I typed eurotest into google and it was 43rd ?? on the list. I was curious enough to read the 6 or 7 pages which preceded my arrival and then watched from the sidelines for a while. I was gratified to discover that there were multiple contributors who seemed to share discontent with the eurotest and apparently with the manner in which BASI (an organisation of thousands of active members) has positioned itself for the benefit of perhaps 200 members.
So now I know that I am not the single anarchist, the lone “Citizen Smith” rebelling against the establishment; but what about the others who are nursing their angst in frustrated solitude? How might the disaffected become aware that many fellow members share their concerns?
The question arises; if I and several others think that something is a bit ‘iffy’ how do we bring it to the attention of the establishment that we do not believe decisions are being made are in the best interests of the entire membership? I note that you have suggested contacting the Chairman, well, 24 members did try that and received a whitewash reply, see my previous post.
But here is an interesting notion, perhaps several, or dozens or even hundreds of members have already written to the Board and received a similar whitewash reply, or perhaps it never even got to the Board, perhaps the Chairman directed the CEO to send out a pro forma reply – how would we know?
I suspect that here are several hundred active members who have concerns about the political position that this members organisation has needlessly been forced into by an elite sub-set. Additionally I have concerns that a great number of members have been lost to the organisation when those members realised that they are up against the wall or as it has been described ‘on the wrong side of a drawbridge’, and I have to point out that all the evidence indicates that this drawbridge has been created from within.
Your concerns about legal costs for the benefit of an elite group are justified, but you might also ponder the question, which at some stage should quite sensibly have been asked, “has BASI ever been advised that the current derogation (given to FR, AU, IT & DE) could successfully be challenged in Law?”
I note that you have resigned yourself to accept a decision made by the Board, but you might wish to reflect on the following. On this specific matter, ie. the continued insistence on the eurotest being an integral part of the top BASI qualification, how many of the Board should have declared a ‘vested interest’ in the outcome of that decision?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
skimottaret,
| Quote: |
The BASI statement that they are not discriminatory as 19% of over 30's have passed. Can we see the analysis and the raw data supporting this claim?
|
The statistic produced by Beanie1 isn't as you have written, which would mean that one in every five over 30 year olds who attempted the test has in fact passed. The statistic was "19% of those who passed were over 30". But you are right we do need the raw data, if in fact there is any.
stewart woodward
You are correct to be concerned about the Dave Renouf statement. If BASI stated in their submission regarding European licenses that the test was a safety issue when did they change their mind?
This matter alone is worth a flood of letters to the Board
And while we are on the subject of a submission to the European Commission in respect of the Internal Market and Services 'green paper'. You may all wish to know that any affected EU Citizen could have made a response to that green paper. When the paper (like all green papers) was issued it was/is the expectation of the Commission that Competent Authorities (CA), eg. the General Medical Council or BASI would inform its members' of the green paper and inform them that they could, as individuals submit to the Commission or they could make representation to the appropriate CA in order that the CA could make a response which reflected the views of the entire parish which it represented, ie. all the doctors, and all the dentists and all the instruc.....
Did anyone receive notification that BASI was compiling a response and would appreciate the opinions of hte membership, or did the receive notification from the relevant CA that responses could be submitted on the subject by individuals?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Bindingcheck,
Not sure why you’re posting your comments at me, but hey, why not eh.
Just so you understand my personal standpoint; I have no interest in the Eurotest question either way. Is it legal is it not, it really doesn’t matter. It’s dead simple; if you want to work in France then you need to pass the Eurotest (eventually). No amount of pontificating on a UK based website is going to change that.
So, again from my point of view (for what it’s worth) the only people complaining about it are those who want to work in France and can’t ski well enough to pass the Eurotest. (maybe as they are too old, too fat, can’t afford the flights, can’t be bothered to train, having a bad day, weren’t encouraged enough at school, the government is conspiring against them, etc,etc, etc, - there are a lot of etc’s and these days each one is a good money earner for the lawyers) Everyone else is fine with it. If you can ski well enough to pass you’ll just go and do it. If you don’t want to work in France then, again, there are no problems. Anyone watching me trying to order anything in a shop in France will understand why I stick to Italy (much more civilised language).
As to if it’s legal or not, well I for one don’t have a clue and don’t really care. But (again), if you want to work in France then instead of complaining about stuff, why not get yourself off to the slopes and get round them posts. You’ll be amazed; you tend to get better at most things if you practice. If you want to go faster on a pair of skis, then I for one can’t think of a better way of doing this than by practicing.
From my point of view BASI is OK. Yeah there are some things I would like to change (isn’t there always) but whinging about it on a public forum ain’t the way to go about it. This “would” be the case if, by mass publicity, you could cause a mass movement in the direction you’re after. But this isn’t one of those times. No amount of whinging about the French insisting on the Eurotest in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) is going to change things in France (or, at the moment, with the ISTD badge).
If you have a problem with something BASI does then contact the board. They “do” have the authority to alter stuff. If the majority of the board doesn’t agree with you then (sorry to say this) you have to remember that life ain’t always fair. Time to move on, and maybe get round them posts and train – if you really want’ to work in France.
France belongs to the French and they can do what they want, in France. If you don’t like it, then don’t go there. Personally I can’t stand the sludge they call coffee, but the skiing is awesome (almost, but not quite, as good as Italy), so I’ll keep going.
I’ll repeat myself. If you have a problem with something that BASI’s doing then speak to the board. If they don’t agree with you, then live with it, or (if you feel really strongly) you always have the right to leave. No matter what is said here, I honestly don’t believe that that any good percentage of people who decide not to renew their BASI membership, do so as they have just realized they will have to pass the Eurotest to get the L4
***************
Now then, I would like to join the French Women’s Beach Volleyball Team (it's my right ya know). Hang on, hang on just a dam mo, they won't let me. I’m not a girl (rampant sexism), too old (obvious ageism), too fat (weightism) and not French (if that ain’t racism I don’t know what is, we’re in the EU now ya now). Got em. Can’t chat now, off to see a lawyer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beanie1
&
stewart woodward
Re: The Dave Renouf statement in BASI news
What is written there is the classic example of someone trying to retrospectively justifiy for an existing arbitrary test, sorry... "exam". When what should be happening is a flowchart proposal:
1) Is there a need for a test.. sorry 'exam'?
If yes
2) What is that need?
3) Find a test, ..oops.. 'exam',which justifies that need
BASI should be very wary trying to align itself with academic 'exams'. As any graduate knows the content of the course is reviewed by a peer group of 'professors' from other universities and on that basis the authority is granted to issue degrees.
In fact this is what currently occurs within BASI through the ISIA and through EU legislation. The BASI content and the quality control mechanism is offered for scrutiny and if it meets the standards then BASI can issue the award (degree). The exam questions will be regularly moderated. On an irregular basis sample moderation of exam scripts/results will take place. The moderation of exam questions has two purposes, i) to ensure that the test is of appropriate rigour and ii) to ensure that the test is fit for purpose.
Not every university student in Britain has to go to Cambridge or worse to Paris or Vienna to sit their exams.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wayne,
This thread was/is about the Eurotest but the thread sometimes drifts and other topics are covered such as the MoU. I am not really sure what BASI are trying to achieve as they never consulted the membership before replying to the Green Paper and the submission has never been published in the members section of the web site.
I believe, reading between the lines, that in future you will need the 'card' to work anywhere in Europe. This will include the Eurotest in some form. This will include ITALY as they are signatures to the agreement so it will affect you. I am not sure how it will apply in the UK as ski teaching is 'non regulated' and you do not need any qualification to work, although obviously most employers will require some form of qualification.
BASI appear to support the 'card' and the inclusion of the eurotest in some form but the following statement is from BASI's submission
| Quote: |
Question 3: Do you agree that there would be important advantages to inserting the principle of partial access and specific criteria for its application into the Directive? (Please provide specific reasons for any derogation from the principle.)
BASI supports the principle of partial access, as it is important to the free movement of labour within the EU.
In the instance of a BASI Level 3 snowboard qualification holder who only teaches snowboard and does not teach skiing this principle enables this person to practice his profession in France. This could equally apply to each of the five individual snowsports disciplines that BASI recognises (Alpine, Snowboard, Telemark, Nordic, and Adaptive). |
This seems to suggest that a Level 3 can teach their specific dicipline i.e alpine, snowboard, telemark etc in France without the 'card'. So what do they want??
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Wayne,
| Quote: |
Not sure why you’re posting your comments at me, but hey, why not eh.
|
Your post, dated 02/04/2012 stimulated me to answer the question that you posed -
| Quote: |
Why are you doing this?
|
I believe my post to you answers that question and several other points that you raised.
| Quote: |
If you honestly feel that BASI are running courses that don’t comply with the law...etc..
|
BASI do not run any eurotest courses. The have in the past ran/attempted to run a eurotest, but that wasn't a course. As far as I am aware the content of any BASI course is not an issue, and like Igor the contributors in this thread appear to be of the opinion that BASI courses are exemplary, so I am unsure why you raised that point.
I would also hope that my post 07/04/12 @ 18:27 would answer your question
| Quote: |
why don’t you just ring Gareth and talk about it
|
If there are a multitude of disaffected (not yourself of course) then why should they not know that their thoughts are shared by others?
| Quote: |
I have no interest in the Eurotest question either way
|
Well that speaks volumes. The other contributors, no matter which side of the camp (or the fence) they happen to sit on, are interested. Which begs the question.....
| Quote: |
Why are you doing this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wayne,
| Quote: |
Now then, I would like to join the French Women’s Beach Volleyball Team (it's my right ya know). Hang on, hang on just a dam mo, they won't let me. I’m not a girl (rampant sexism), too old (obvious ageism), too fat (weightism) and not French (if that ain’t racism I don’t know what is, we’re in the EU now ya now). Got em. Can’t chat now, off to see a lawyer. |
There are a few preconditions to joining the French Womens Beach Volleyball team and none of the reasons you suggest are applicable.
The law does accept the need to be female in order to play for a womens volleyball team, indeed the Fédération Française de Volley-Ball will require their players to undergo gender testing.
In the circumstances to which you refer being French is a nationality not a race.
There is no age or fat limit.
You would of course have to be a very good volleyball player in order to represent the French nation, but you don't seem to have considered that.
Don't bother with a lawyer, just be reasonable in what you think
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Bindingcheck, The BASI board are representive of the members who voted for them.
If those quote]
several hundred active members who have concerns about the political position
[/quote]
voted, we may have a change.........
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
jjc Do they make thongs in my size ? Would you like to sponsor my thong ?
| Dunk wrote: |
| several hundred active members who have concerns about the political position |
Hmmmm, not too sure about the “several” hundred members, but let’s say, for arguments sake, that you’re right and it’s around 200, or 400 or even 500. That gives you (assuming there are around 6000 members) 8. & a bit% of the membership. That’s not really a lot is it?
To reiterate. I don’t have an issue with the Eurotest and (assuming 500 people who want to work in France but can’t ski fast enough) neither does over 91% of the membership.
Let’s face it that vast majority of members are either L1 or L2 and will stay that way and a good few (not sure of the numbers) already have their L4. OK I know that’s not the official BASI line but….. So you have a few hundred people who are “really” working towards their L4. Do you really think that of this tiny proportion of the membership there are many who don’t know that they have to past the race test to move up? And, when they finally get to know about this race test it will make them leave BASI in a huff.
People already know about the Eurotest.
My problem is not with the actually argument of whether there should be a race test in the L4, or if the race test is legal. My problem is with the slagging of BASI on a public forum. It will “not” change things in France and so we end up going round and round with each side getting more and more entrenched in their view point. JJC says it’s wonderful and makes your skin glow and so your more attractive to the chicks and you can wear the spandex suit at home (in private ??) , skimottaret say’s it horrid and illegal and thought up by French devils to stop him working in Tignes legally and the spandex suits don't come in the right colours anyway, Bindingcheck say's we have to tell everyone about it as they may not know and then they are all going to march from Jarrow to BASI office in NorthEnglandShire to demand this that and the other and tickle Dave Renouf until he agrees to give them all a free L4, etc, etc.
I honestly don’t know if the Eurotest is legal or not, but do I do know that everyone with their L3 already knows about it.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 8-04-12 10:34; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
this thread is doing nothing but bring BASI into disrepute |
Maybe it is, in fact, disreputable.
| Quote: |
| My problem is with the slagging of BASI on a public forum |
What's so special about it that it should be immune from public criticism?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| What's so special about it that it should be immune from public criticism? |
The BASI membership is made up of ski instructors and so it/they can do no wrong, obviously.
Ski instructors are, by definition, god like, as you know.
See here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
I understand the old saying "he who shouts loudest gets heard", but this thread is doing nothing but bring BASI into disrepute. You really should just stop.
That’s me out of it.
|
posted a week ago, for someone who could care less about the ET and the working rights of members within the EU you sure do shout loud..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Wayne, I was trying to quote from Bindingcheck,
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Dunk,
Good point
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| for someone who could care less about the ET and the working rights of members within the EU you sure do shout loud |
Ah, it's a little soon for an argumentum ad hominem (details), my opinon is that it's a bit of a shame but no worries, that's the way of these arguments. (Not exactly Goodwin’s Law, but there’s still time )
It's quite simple.
If you want to work in the Snowdonia National Park as a Ranger, you need to be able to speak fluent Welsh.
....Why when they all speak English anyway?
If you want to work with me (in my part time summer job) you'll need a PHD.
....Why when anyone with an MA could do the job just as well?
If you want to teach skiing in France then (sooner or later) you'll need to pass the Eurotest.
....Why when you'll normally teach clients that don't need this level of skill?
If you want to teach skiing independently in our area (my winter job) you'll need to charge a set level.
....Why when cartels are illegal under local and EU laws?
Etc
Etc
Answer, as that is what the group/organisation in control has decided are the criteria. Jobs for the locals ?, pulling up the drawbridge ?, or is it maintaining standards ?, ensuring quality/safety ?. Those who fulfil the criteria will point to the later options, those without, at the former pair. All of the above examples are current criteria and may or may not be illegal but they are still in place and no amount of internet chat will alter this.
So, on that note, I'll take skimottaret's, point to note and say again
| Wayne wrote: |
| That’s me out of it. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
[quote="jjc james"]
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
Surely, if age difference has been properly considered and discounted then there will be proper analysis to support that assertion. Show me the data and I'll quite happily shut up!
|
Thats fair, have you asked for it properly? On here doesn't count. |
As jjc james said on here'dosen't count' so i asked BASI for the data and analysis. No analysis of how the data has been interpretated has been provided but here is the data;
3 passes under 19 years old
27 passes 20 -25
20 passes 26 - 30
7 passes 31 -35
3 passes 36 -40
2 passes over 40 years old.
This totals 62 passes which really suprises me as i thought there would be more.
So 5 passes or 8% for the over 35's.
Edit. I have just received another email from BASI stating 'I was remiss in mentioning that these statistics are for the time-period of seasons 2008/9 to 2010/11'. So 3 years data.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 10-04-12 17:38; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
stewart woodward, Are those the historic totals for the entire membership over the time the euro test has been a requirement ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
blimey.....just as well no one ever asked sir alex to prove he could drill one from 40yards out so that he could coach his sport......or Arsene........or 'the chosen one' etc etc......... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
iskar,
| Quote: |
just as well no one ever asked sir alex to prove he could drill one from 40yards out so that he could coach his sport.
|
Quite
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
.
, so I have to accept it.
UK Sport had it in their criteria when they ran talent ID for volleyball with 2012 and 2016 in mind – providing they fulfilled the basic criteria of being tall (a minimum of 6’3” or 190cm for men and 5’11” or 180cm for women), young (between 16 and 25), and with some sort of athletic background. They didn't even mention being good at volley ball 