 Poster: A snowHead
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Meanwhile, in the land of the adults, we wonder why anyone would even join a club that has that amount of dirty laundry on a constant public rinse cycle. If it's not those two, it's the embarrasing level of discourse on whichever of the Facebook pages is the official one.
It's a shame.
as for the bet.... I hate to agree, but March is looking likeley, not least as I suspect the financial projections on 'spend' at the AGM will be more accurate than those on 'income' for the crucial winter season.
I think there should be a futures market in BASH tickets....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh no, a strict, disapproving (of everything) grandfather type has turned up to pronounce judgement.
I bet you £3000.99 that your prediction is wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I normally resist getting involved in these threads (death threats etc) but IF the Ski Club of GB is dragged under by the demise of ski holidays this year it will be a sad day for UK skiing in general, for the history the Club represents, if nothing else.
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing. |
Gerry's right wing boot boys club? Having it large over lefties and bedwetters and foreign nonces since 2021?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
I normally resist getting involved in these threads (death threats etc) but IF the Ski Club is dragged under by the demise of ski holidays this year it will be a sad day for UK skiing in general, for the history the Club represents, if nothing else.
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing. |
I imagine, whilst devolved, it will fall to Snowsport England (I assume there are Scottish and maybe a Welsh and NI equivalents seeing how these things work these days) who are probably already that voice rather than SCGB.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
boredsurfin wrote:
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing.
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It isn't the voice of British Skiing now - it's a private club that has just called itself the Ski Club of Great Britain. It holds no more authority to speak for British skiing than any other club, of which there are many around the UK. We are all affiliated to Snowsport England (or Scotland etc), who as the governing body already have the responsibility to represent us.
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| RobinS wrote: |
| Quote: |
boredsurfin wrote:
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing.
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We are all affiliated to Snowsport England (or Scotland etc), who as the governing body already have the responsibility to represent us. |
Well, it all depends on whether or not you draw a distinction between snowsports and recreational snowsports.
Snowsports England say:
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
They have no authority to 'govern' recreational snowsports.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 25-11-20 14:19; edited 1 time in total
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| Gerry wrote: |
| RobinS wrote: |
| Quote: |
boredsurfin wrote:
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing.
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We are all affiliated to Snowsport England (or Scotland etc), who as the governing body already have the responsibility to represent us. |
Well, it all depends on whether or not you draw a distinction between snowsports and recreational snowsports.
Snowsports England say:
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
They have no authority to 'govern' reactional snowsports. |
Does SCGB have any authority in either sphere either implied or expressed apart from self appointed?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Gerry wrote: |
Well, it all depends on whether or not you draw a distinction between snowsports and recreational snowsports.
Snowsports England say:
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
They have no authority to 'govern' reactional snowsports. |
Don't think anyone other than you cares about reactional snowsports.
Snowsport England has received grants from Sport England to promote recreational snowsports.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing. |
Depending on how you count the UK has perhaps 6,000,000 "skiers".
In 2020 the scgb claimed around 22,146 members, so they may represent around 0.3%.
A third of one percent.
However if you look at the composition of their directorship, they actually represent
a clique within the 0.3% - those who have their turns subsidised by the rest.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ster wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| RobinS wrote: |
| Quote: |
boredsurfin wrote:
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing.
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We are all affiliated to Snowsport England (or Scotland etc), who as the governing body already have the responsibility to represent us. |
Well, it all depends on whether or not you draw a distinction between snowsports and recreational snowsports.
Snowsports England say:
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
They have no authority to 'govern' reactional snowsports. |
Does SCGB have any authority in either sphere either implied or expressed apart from self appointed? |
None. That line about being 'The voice..' is something I've moaned about before. I'll have another go though. The Ski Club used to have a vote on Snowsports GB but that was just a legacy thing and went after the restructuring. the Ski Club has given financial support to athletes over the years though and all of them were very grateful.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rjs wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
Well, it all depends on whether or not you draw a distinction between snowsports and recreational snowsports.
Snowsports England say:
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
They have no authority to 'govern' recreational snowsports. |
Don't think anyone other than you cares about reactional snowsports.
Snowsport England has received grants from Sport England to promote recreational snowsports. |
OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 25-11-20 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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| Gerry wrote: |
| OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that. |
Maybe look up what Sport England does.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rjs wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that. |
Maybe look up what Sport England does. |
Well, they don't govern recreational snowsports and the Football Association don't govern me when I kick a football about in the park in a non competitive manner. I'm sure they'll be delighted that you think they do though. Don't forget to follow all their rules next time you go.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Do recreational skiers need "a voice" - what does that even mean?
Do recreational football players have "a voice"?
Do beach holiday lovers have "a voice"?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Layne wrote: |
Do recreational skiers need "a voice" - what does that even mean?
Do recreational football players have "a voice"?
Do beach holiday lovers have "a voice"? |
Which? is a powerful voice representing consumers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
| OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that. |
Sport England and Snowsport England are different organizations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Let's be honest the SCGB isn't even it's own voice as any any point in time of recent years there have been conflicting noises made from within.
And more appropriately it is better characterised as a (presently failing) tour operator with a sideline in subsidising ski groups/holidays for a limited few from membership revenues of a bigger population. I'm not entirely clear what the value proposition is anymore for those who don't take Freshtracks hols or partake of ILG
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rjs wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that. |
Sport England and Snowsport England are different organizations. |
Sport England is the umbrella and simply chucking money down through their structure for the purposes of promotion does not make Snowsports England the governing body of recreational snowsports.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Let's be honest the SCGB isn't even it's own voice as any any point in time of recent years there have been conflicting noises made from within.
And more appropriately it is better characterised as a (presently failing) tour operator with a sideline in subsidising ski groups/holidays for a limited few from membership revenues of a bigger population. I'm not entirely clear what the value proposition is anymore for those who don't take Freshtracks hols or partake of ILG |
The issue with making a loss was due to a short period of bad management. Run correctly, the holidays represent excellent value for members as well as providing a small profit margin for things like sponsoring athletes etc. Covid will have an impact during this period of good management but we will weather that.
I get that you don't like the Ski Club, but thousands do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| philwig wrote: |
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing. |
Depending on how you count the UK has perhaps 6,000,000 "skiers".
In 2020 the scgb claimed around 22,146 members, so they may represent around 0.3%.
A third of one percent.
However if you look at the composition of their directorship, they actually represent
a clique within the 0.3% - those who have their turns subsidised by the rest. |
No different to admin having his turns subsidised. More holidays require more admins.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Let's be honest the SCGB isn't even it's own voice as any any point in time of recent years there have been conflicting noises made from within.
And more appropriately it is better characterised as a (presently failing) tour operator with a sideline in subsidising ski groups/holidays for a limited few from membership revenues of a bigger population. I'm not entirely clear what the value proposition is anymore for those who don't take Freshtracks hols or partake of ILG |
The issue with making a loss was due to a short period of bad management. Run correctly, the holidays represent excellent value for members as well as providing a small profit margin for things like sponsoring athletes etc. Covid will have an impact during this period of good management but we will weather that.
I get that you don't like the Ski Club, but thousands do. |
I've said before I should be approaching its core demographic and therefore it should have plenty for me. I just don't know what that it now unless I desperately want a Freshtracks holiday unless the thing for be is milking ILG or something at the expense of other members (at least Covid shutdowns should limit the bleed rate on that activity). How many Freshtrack customers? 2000ish? From a pupported membership of 23k? Something doesn't seem to add up
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Let's be honest the SCGB isn't even it's own voice as any any point in time of recent years there have been conflicting noises made from within.
And more appropriately it is better characterised as a (presently failing) tour operator with a sideline in subsidising ski groups/holidays for a limited few from membership revenues of a bigger population. I'm not entirely clear what the value proposition is anymore for those who don't take Freshtracks hols or partake of ILG |
The issue with making a loss was due to a short period of bad management. Run correctly, the holidays represent excellent value for members as well as providing a small profit margin for things like sponsoring athletes etc. Covid will have an impact during this period of good management but we will weather that.
I get that you don't like the Ski Club, but thousands do. |
I've said before I should be approaching its core demographic and therefore it should have plenty for me. I just don't know what that it now unless I desperately want a Freshtracks holiday unless the thing for be is milking ILG or something at the expense of other members (at least Covid shutdowns should limit the bleed rate on that activity). How many Freshtrack customers? 2000ish? From a pupported membership of 23k? Something doesn't seem to add up |
Not everyone who goes no the holidays goes every year. About 45% of the members have been on a holiday, skied with reps, or ILG in the last 5yrs. Never has someone with so little interest in something shown so much interest in it as you do with the Ski Club. It's starting to look like a bit of an obsession.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nah just a bit of light relief watching the self induced destruction of something that was once important compared to similar things elsewhere which will affect my life and those around me.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
Do recreational skiers need "a voice" - what does that even mean?
Do recreational football players have "a voice"?
Do beach holiday lovers have "a voice"? |
Which? is a powerful voice representing consumers. |
So is SCGB a consumer organisation for the protection of snowsports consumers?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When I pay my annual SCGB subs it is only to go on Freshtracks holidays. I can't see any other reason to be a member of SCGB. I also go on Snoworks Holidays. I really can't see any significant difference between them. I would like to go on Snowheads Off-piste bashes, but that is impossible for me because they are always over subscribed before I know if I can go on the selected dates
There is no role at all for SCGB to be some sort of representative organisation, if I need one for off-piste skiing/touring then the BMC provides that for me, as well as an excellent insurance package.
So who will buy Feshtracks off the SCGB's administrators? and when?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| OK, they gave money to themselves, I didn't know that. |
Sport England and Snowsport England are different organizations. |
Sport England is the umbrella and simply chucking money down through their structure for the purposes of promotion does not make Snowsports England the governing body of recreational snowsports. |
They claim to be the NGB of the Sport:
https://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/about-us/
| Quote: |
| Snowsport England is the National Governing Body for snowsport in England, and we’re committed to inspiring participation in Snowsport at every level. |
GB Snowsport claim to be the NGB for elite GB snowsport
https://www.gbsnowsport.com/about-us/our-story
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| GB Snowsport (GBS) is the national governing body for snowsports in the UK, managing elite British teams and the development pathway for those athletes. |
Of course anybody can sponsor an elite athlete.
I've also had conversation previously about what is officially recognised NGB and it doesn't seem clear cut - nevertheless I don't think the SCGB professes to be one.
The website says:
| Quote: |
| the Ski Club's purpose is to promote and protect safe, enjoyable and inspiring snowsports experiences for anyone who loves snow. |
which sounds a bit consumer association ish more than NGB ish without explicitly saying so.
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There's a difference between a National Governing Body; eg for competitive sports and a National Representative Body, eg BMC for the interests of climbers and hill walkers. Sadly the only interests the SCGB would like to fight for is for their own Reps to be allowed to operate as ski guides without equivalent qualifications
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 25-11-20 18:22; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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@Layne, Think part of the problem is that SCGB used to be the NGB for skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Layne wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
Do recreational skiers need "a voice" - what does that even mean?
Do recreational football players have "a voice"?
Do beach holiday lovers have "a voice"? |
Which? is a powerful voice representing consumers. |
So is SCGB a consumer organisation for the protection of snowsports consumers? |
No, it's not. SnowSports consumers have all sorts of protection and rights that they have easy access to already.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rjs wrote: |
| @Layne, Think part of the problem is that SCGB used to be the NGB for skiing. |
Yeah, nearly 60 years ago. Why is that a problem?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Most of the members remember it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Layne, GB Snowsports is the national governing body for elite snowsports. They are needed if you are to compete in international competitions / world cup events / have a FIS number etc. (So that is a tiny tiny weeeny itsy percentage of GB skiers). It is rather complicated with SSE then GBS registration then FIS number then race entry. These will require agreement with the GBS national coaches / team managers. Eldest son has competed for GB in World Cup telemark racing recently.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
They have no authority to 'govern' recreational snowsports.
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The ‘snowsport’ in SE includes recreational as well as competitive skiing and snowboarding. Most grass roots ski clubs in England are affiliated to SE who provide their liability insurance which would probably be impossible or too expensive without their involvement.
SE importantly act as the skiing and snowboarding lobby to government most recently by ensuring that snowsport can continue to operate within the COVID regulations. They have been particularly helpful to the recreational snow sports clubs in that regard this year.
Skiers should expect SE to lobby in support of their reasonable interests where those would be affected by a change in the law or regulation and indeed promote the valuable role the sport can play in terms of health and well-being.
SE is very active in support of grass roots organisation and provides lots of advice, events and seminars to help move local clubs and voluntary activity forward so that it can be as effective as possible. Because they understand skiing and ski clubs they can act as an expert independent advisor eg. In support of a grant application or a consent regime such as a planning application. Because they understand sport England they can push advice and messages down to the grass roots eg. In terms of participation, diversity, child safety etc. They have done some really helpful stuff with the HSE around safely operating outdoor skiing facilities in a proportionate and very helpful way.
A lot of their work is aimed at the next generation of competitive skiers, probably because that’s what attracts the money from government. They are however also very supportive of recreational skiing and more influential than any other body.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cheers @Peter S, @ed123, that seems to clear that up. We have a similar set up volleyball (my main sport) with national NGB's and the British Volleyball Federation covering (all be it limited in Volleyball) GB participation. I don't think there is an equivalent of SCGB but that doesn't necessarily negate SCGB's existence, I am just trying to place them/it as an organisation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
Do recreational skiers need "a voice" - what does that even mean?
Do recreational football players have "a voice"?
Do beach holiday lovers have "a voice"? |
Which? is a powerful voice representing consumers. |
So is SCGB a consumer organisation for the protection of snowsports consumers? |
No, it's not. SnowSports consumers have all sorts of protection and rights that they have easy access to already. |
So SCGB isn't "a voice" for snowsports, at least in that sense.
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Gerry is a bit like his club. Arrogance and entitlement are only matched by the level of ignorance.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
I normally resist getting involved in these threads (death threats etc) but IF the Ski Club of GB is dragged under by the demise of ski holidays this year it will be a sad day for UK skiing in general, for the history the Club represents, if nothing else.
I wonder what if anything will replace it as the voice of British Skiing. |
It will be a great day for Scottish Snowsports though! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Layne, it is a club
I guess there are volleyball clubs who just- play volleyball rather than compete (or maybe there aren't).
Basically SCGB is now a recreational ski club with a national catchment area that does (very very) occasional 'fun' races, publishes a newsletter, sells insurance, has a (sort of) web site, subsidises some guiding for a few retired IT consultants from Guildford and other perhps more fashionable parts of Surrey (sic) who have apartments in either la Daille or (the more successful ones) Val d'Isere, subsidises club officers (from Guildford or other parts of Surrey) free holidays and has a stake in a tour company- which offers club officers free holidays and employs a few yaaaaahs in sunny Wimbledon who pisssss away the subs on absolute shite.
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or maybe I am missing something?
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FAQ
