 Poster: A snowHead
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These announcements were made last year. I remember hearing about them in London sometime in October.
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Pré Saint-Esprit: detachable chairlift, with station for the seats (faster restart after a stormy night). 6 seats, duration / 2, flow * 2. € 12 million. Heated seats, bubbles, arrival directly above Plagnettes (which is underutilized)
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By underutilised they mean doesn't have a permanent 5 minute queue. To me the Plangnettes lift is perfectly utilised and runs about 80% capacity (3 out of every 4 seats full)
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Upgrading Comborciere would offer to an incentive to link over that way.
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Well I have often used it as a convenient lift back when the queue for Ours is too long. I keep wondering what the original drag lift up Comborciere was like and would it have been faster than the current chair.
I must admit the prospect of an extra 1050 beds without any new pistes is a bit scary and saying that the Mont Blanc and Cascades are underutilised is not IMHO a good enougth reason for not expanding the piste capacity. IIRC Cascades was designated a piste mauve a few years ago specifically for slow skiing beginners - do beginners really want busier pistes?
I am with @Arctic Roll, about possibility of developing over the Col du Chal, but it is south facing so only a relatively short piste will be possible. I keep wondering if it is possible to develop from the Mont Blanc piste down through the Malgovert forest to the 2000 road.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| ... the back of Col de la Chal (and yes, all that that entails with infrastructure investment) ... |
Wouldn't that stray in to the national park? Some lovely terrain down there, but I think development wouldn't be allowed? |
Oh yes, I'm sure there is an environmental impact, as well as the Vanoise Park issue. But confess as to being at a bit of a loss as to where else you might expand the domain.
Malgovert Forest? I suppose the 2019 upgraded Combourciere might make that a feasible target (I am concerned about having increased inappropriate footfall through the Malgovert piste as it stands: albeit re-designating from red to black might ease that fear...) - although return to 1600 isn't going to be easy if you drop below the road, and , it is low.
Another option might be replacing the Clocheret lift and opening up that face a bit more to reduce congestion: but would potentially ruin some great, great runs. And the powder field above the snowpark would become just another area to be tracked out before 11am (now that really is selfish...!).
I can see Arolles getting busier too as the new hotel comes onstream. Bah.
I'm sure there are options within the domain's current boundaries, I just don't want any of them to become mainstreet: I like the backwaters, thank you very much!
(X-post with JohnE)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rob@rar, The national park boundary runs roughly south of the lac des moutons off piste ski trail marked on the map down to the Chalets des Rossets is clearly not in the national parlk
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@Arctic Roll, I went down Clocheret on Monday and it was beautiful, firm corduroy, almost empty, great views. And it is kept that way by being served only by a single very slow lift that if you didn't know where it was you could never know about. I wouldn't want to lose that just to reduce the crowding in Arc 2000.
Re reading that about the hotel Beguin made me think - I was sure that only a few years ago it was gutted and turned into an aparthotel. Now, it doesn't even display its name only the word "BAR" It also made me think that I have never been into it. It must have one of the finest views in the Alps (well one side, the other must be the worst)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@johnE, we SO agree about Clocheret: along with the Carreley run it is the one we do most. It is beautiful. But it is the crowding across everywhere that I'm concerned about. I was taken out on that 1600 home run: the links running down to Vagere / Transarc can be a nightmare: and the sheer ant-like behaviour in the 2000 bowl is beginning to look like Piccadilly Circus at rush hour.
Having said that, I don't think we waited more than 5 mins anywhere in the fortnight before Easter (excepting Aguille Rouge): it's not the lifts, it's the sheer volumes on the piste that are getting out of hand. [/old git mode]
I'd too love to see what's happened to the Beguin, and agree: front side - wow; backside? Well the name says it all. Are you out in the summer, maybe we could go for an explore!
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@Arctic Roll, Oddly I was also taken out on the Mont Blanc piste down to 1600. There were only 4 people on the piste - my son and a friend of his 100 metres ahead and I was hit from behind by the only other skier on the piste. He raced off leaving me lying on the ground for quite a while before a ski school came down and iinstructor radioed for help.
Yes, I am in Les Arcs a bit over the summer, but cannot recall the plans at the moment.
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@johnE, @Arctic Roll, Clocheret became our 'run of choice' last week. Staying in 2000, after we picked up 2 eldest boys from lessons and had lunch, the 2000 bowl and Arcabulle in particular was too busy for my liking and that of 'intermediate' children. So we'd scoot over to Clocheret via the Snowpark, do a few runs there before returning 'home' via the Arpette (normally stopping for a Crepes and a coffee).
It stayed 'firm' and no-one on it. The pace of the Clocheret lift was a little tedious for impatient middle son. But if that is one of the reasons no-one uses it, that works for me!
Replacing the Pre-St Espirt. Halleluah! It is an ideal 'warm' up run, as stated earlier. I'm surprised they say the Plagnettes is 'under-utilised'. Once we had taken the Arcabulle up, we would ski down only as far as the Plagnettes for the uplift back... And it seems many other folks did the same - net effect 5 to 10 minute q rather than 10 to 15... Nevertheless, it would seem the right thing to extend PsE lift up to it else it'll just make the Arcabulle worse as rob@rar states.
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| Richie_S wrote: |
| .............I'm surprised they say the Plagnettes is 'under-utilised'......... |
Doesn't surprise me, invariably for most of the winter once the sun goes in the 2000 bowl is horrendously cold or if the weather is a bit bad then the bowl gets it and given the choice between Arcabuelle or Plagnettes we take Arcabuelle most of the time. Also runs down from Bois/Arpette lead to Arcabuelle, Marmotte leads to Arcabuell, most runs lead to the at lift.
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Also runs down from Bois/Arpette lead to Arcabuelle, Marmotte leads to Arcabuell, most runs lead to the at lift.
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Well yes, but the runs from the Grand Col and Col du Chal basically stop at the Plagnettes. In most cases when I am skiing the 2000 bowl I will take Varet up and across to the Plagnettes rather than wait for the Arcabulle. It is funny how no matter how they increase the capacity there is always a queue at that point (remember when it was served by just a pair of drag lifts.)
@Richie_S, a Viz top tip: to shorten the queue at the Arcabulle, get a sledge from Rodeo and walk around the side to get on the lift quickly.
I must apologise for mentioning the run we were never going to mention on this forum and bringing it to the public attention. My normal first lifts of the day are Combettes, Cachette and often the first piste - the red from the unmentionable lift.
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@johnE, hmmm. We did Rodeo park this year... (me and 11 yr old) - jeez, it's a bit tedious, if I'm honest. Certainly in the warmer weather, it's just too warm by the end and there's a bit of a walk through the flatter sections. Our run wasn't helped by the 20 minute delay to start, due to an unfortunate having to be stretchered off the run...
Tbh, we preferred hiring a luge and using the luge area off the magic carpet in 2000.
Unfortunately, number 2 son is adamant he wants to do it NEXT year when he is finally old enough... so i'll have to endure it again... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Richie_S, I hate that Rodeo thing with a passion! My knees don't bend that way, my core can't hold me in that sitting position for long enough, steering appears to be a black art, etc.etc. And yes, it's a damn long walk in slush. Doing it 3 times is, IMHO, 3 times too many. Fortunately Mini Roll has grown out of it.
But I guess going through that kind of experience, with the love and sacrifice demanded, is what defines parenthood...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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PS we have 4 plastic luges in the cupboard that are no longer required: available to a good home in 1950 / 2000. Make me an offer!
(even "I'll take them off your hands" would be considered)
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@Richie_S, @Arctic Roll, Perhaps I am entering my second childhood, but I actually enjoyed the rodeo sledge. The first couple of times the piste was freshly pisted and rock hard. The final straight section was great, taking off over the bumps and bouncing over the ruts. I was racinng my nepthew and sone. The third time the run was covered in soft snow and it tougher. There was no walking required.
Talking to some children on the way up on the lift they said they prefered the Mile8 track in Arc 1800
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You know it makes sense.
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@Arctic Roll, I don't think they let you take your own sledge down the course and insist that they take one of their helmets.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have been skiing both Les Arcs and La Plagne for years and I am dismayed to see that the resorts seem to be carrying on the policy of building more and more accommodation on the ski area. So we have had Mille 8 recently and now we are getting another 300 beds below Arc 1950 and a 1,050 bed Club Med complex at Arc 1600 combined with the massive development planned for below Aime La Plagne.
There has to be a point where the capacity of the actual physical mountain and pistes has been reached. I find it a great shame that in my opinion the resorts are now being spoilt by these never ending developments. Come on Paradiski wake up and realise that not everyone wants to be skiing on overcrowded pistes and see buildings and development round every turn.
Griggs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been reading on Planetski etc for years that UK skier numbers are declining. Therefore where are the people coming from to fill all the new developments that are being built in Les Arcs and elsewhere? Are skier numbers up in other countries?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Griggs, I went to St Anton a couple times a few years ago and found the crowds unbearable. In places it was shoulder to shoulder ski tip to ski tail skiing. I thought this was due to the massive amount of accomodation related to the limited piste available. I vowed never to go back until they increased the ski area. They seem to have improved the lift system so the 3 1/2 hour waits to get up the mountain has gone. I hope that Les Arcs doesn't follow suit with too much accomodation for the pistes.
Having one of the oldest apartments in the domain what appears to be happening is that the older property is staying unoccpied for longer. This is what the resort managers keep refering to as the "cold bed problem". For example, on our stair well there are appoximately 14 apartments. Over the 2 week Easter holidays only about 4 of these were occupied. It is hard to say exactly because some groups had more than one apartment and people did come and go at various times during the fortnight. It is a pattern that is visible across the whole resort.
@snowymum, Once again my observations from Arc 1600 is that only a tiny proportion of the visitors are from the UK. This year there seamed to be an increase in Slavic and German voices in the resort, but the number from the UK was about the same. The largest proportion of people appear to be French.
I suspect the big change is that the resort is trying to attract wealthier clinets who want luxury hotels, rather than those of us who don't care for huge apartments and quite content to muck in together (I have had 8 people staying in my 35m2 apartment) and don't actually spend that much. The ideal customer for the resort is probably those that stay in upmarket chalets or hotels, head out about 10 to find a nice restaurant for lunch, stopping for a hot chocolate on the way, have a two hour lunch break with wine then head back to the hotel and collect their children from ski school. Apart from the ski school (child minding) snakes I would also encourage these clients. After all it is the people who buy lift passes and don't ski much that are funding my holidays
Just a question how many hotels do we know about in Les Arcs? I have:-
Arc 1600
Cachette
Explorers (L'Arcadien?)
Beguin
UCPA?
Arc 1800
Golf
Mercure
Is Village Club du Soleil a hotel?
Is Hotel Grive a hotel? I only know it as a restaurant
Arc 2000
Club Med
Taj-i Mah
Vallandry
There are a couple I know of and have even stayed in one, but cannot recall their names
la Vanoise
Emeraude
Vallandry
Ignoring Bourg does anyone know of any other hotels
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@johnE, There are a couple of MMV club hotels in Arc 2000. There is also a club med in peisey vallandry.
In some ways Arc 1950 is more like a hotel as there is a half board option and reception in at least some of the buildings is 24 hr.
There are new higher end apartments being built as well as hotels. Eg. Cime des Arcs, Source des arcs, edenarc, oree des neiges in vallandry are all fairly recent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We own in la Cime in Arc 2000. Chalet Des Neiges built it, they own most of 2000 including the new hotel. According to the people we know there the new hotel is the last thing that will be built in 2000. Cough....
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snowymum, I can't find a link to the article so no doubt this post on here will be rubbished!
Of total skiers in Paradis Ski 72% are French. Of the remainder 17% are from the UK. The largest foreign contingent.
In Montalbert there is a large development, Chalets de Montalbert, that was almost 100% sold to UK based buyers in 2005. Nowadays most are re sold to the French! (Apparently their co-prop meetings were held in English - nowadays in french!
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 23-04-17 19:05; edited 1 time in total
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@boredsurfin, Russians and Dutch in Les Arcs but would agree, compared to middle England of Tignes and Val D'Isere, La Plagne and Les Arcs are very French (thought more so La Plagne)
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@thefatcontroller, Ironically I thought more UK in Les Arcs! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boredsurfin, You are probably close with your 17%. I wonder how they record that since no one has ever asked my nationality. I do remember being stopped one by a lady with a clip board asking me some questions about the resort, but that was over 30 years ago. My esimates were based upon what language other people on the chairlift spoke or when standing in the bakers in the morning (actaully I haven't heard a single other English voice in the bakers, perhaps they all stay in hotels), once again not a good sampling method. My method of measuring the popularity of snowboarding is equally crude - either count them from a lift or in a particularly bored day at work count all you can see on a web cam. There are definately pockets of UK citizens around the resort. In 1600 there are very few, but I gather a much higher percentage in 1950.
Sorry, some of my favourite web sites are the ONS and http://ukdataservice.ac.uk/. I love listening to more or less on the wireless.
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@Arctic Roll, totally agree. Joys of parenthood.
@johnE, i imagine it would be better in the cold... with a firm surface.
Regarding the Brit quotient in resort. From my unscientific recollection... i'd say 1 in 5 is not inconceivable. It was 100% in our Chalet, at least!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd guess 75% of Arc1950 traffic this year is UK / Irish - but again, unscientifically based on voices at ski-school start / bakery / evening bars. All of which may be over-represented. May well change as more apartments are being bought by the French for personal use rather than renting out through TOs.
But IIRC it is only in the last 15 years that the UK has "noticed" it: I certainly recall changing minibusses on the way to Tignes at BSM in circa 1995, and pointing at the Funicular, asking 'Where's that?' to be told, 'Oh Les Arcs? that's where the French ski'.
Summertime is entirely different, when 1950 becomes almost exclusively French. Well, 95% plus. What's it like elsewhere in the domain?
@johnE, my luges pre-date the Rodeo, used exclusively on the sledging slopes of 2000 and 1950. Seem to recall a lot of walking back up hills then too... (Never did take them all they way down to Pre St Esprit in the evening for the bus - that would be naughty. )
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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(Never did take them all they way down to Pre St Esprit in the evening for the bus - that would be naughty. Laughing )
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And youv'e never thought of catching the bus up to Arc200 for a cheeky ski down cascade without paying?
Oddly in Arc1600 the number of english voices in 1600 rises in the summer. It is the mountain bike crowd coming in for lunch in the square. I suspect it is part of a guided route
@Arctic Roll, you may be shocked to discover that I have only been into Arc1950 twice and on one visit did hear a lot of English voices. It is not as bad as Val d'Isere where the lift attendents address you in English first.
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Tuesday 25 April. The winter goes on! Had another day away from Les Arcs, but for those that are interested here is what we did. If you would like to see a photo of Les Arcs taken from across the valley go to the post on Les Arcs Winter facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/LesArcsWinter/
Today after a sunny start as forecast the sky started to cloud over and the wind picked up. It even tried to snow a little.
We had planned on a day in Val Thorens, but with the bad weather including strong winds forecast we changed our plans and headed to La Rosiere and skinned up towards the Fort looking into Italy.
After a little snack with the weather turning we started our descent on spring snow. Once more we were able to find some nice off piste on the way back to La Ros. Finally we joined the road for a gentle hike and hoping for a drink back in the station. No such luck, everything was closed so another picnic and then home.
Tomorrow we hope for fresh snow if the forecast is correct. Only a few more days to go before the season comes to an end! 
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You know it makes sense.
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@johnE, not sure about it been 'guided' - but it is at the bottom of both a black and the 'park' routes, as well as a lovely blue run around the hill from 1950/2000: so you'll have heard me and the family in there in our best cycling lycra (but no body armour: we don't do the crazy stuff). It's a good stopping off point for lunch for sure.
Sometimes we even cycle back! (Otherwise the navettes really do come into their own when tired, and faced with that climb from Pre St Esprit.)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Arctic Roll,Yes I like the blue from the Col du Chal down through 2000 and around to Arc 1600. The navette back is a good choice, but the only time I tried to catch it the bike rack was already full. It is a bit of a slog around to 2000 for us unfit people. I'm impressed that you did the black run down the Cachette - very impresed
I quite like the route down to Bourg from the Col as well, but last time missed a turn below Villaroger and ended up on th eroad through Seez. That was not so good.
Like you I didn't use body armour last year and had a couple of spills resulting is considerable loss of skin. It has prompted us to get a/ a first aid kit for the apartment and b/ wear elbow protectors.
I will listen out for your voice in 1600. In the meantime I see the resort opens for the summer on July 8th. Now to check when the mountain huts open for some high altitude stuff.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@johnE, fortunately last time we used the bus, they let us put the bikes in the under-belly of the vehicle so we didn't have to ride back! The only uphill I do (I'm an old git) is the road up from 1950 to 2000, where I meet Mrs and Mini Roll who've come up in the cabriolet... Managed it 8 times in 10 days last year: which, on low pressure, fat, off-road tyres and large belly and no cleats, is if not in TdF class, still an achievement. [ /proud of self ]
We only did the black by accident, when they closed the blue down to 1600 while doing the earthworks for the training piste and so directed us (a family FFS... on hardtails...) down the black. We... err.. walked it. 
That turn below Villaroger can be quite 'interesting' to find: we've done both routes, and although there is a short seriously sharp climb out from the river towards Seez, I think it is the more direct route - even if it is 'wrong'!
We're now booked for 5th August for 2 weeks. Let's try to catch up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Arctic Roll, We haven't worked out when we will be in Les Arcs yet this summer, but early August is a strong probability. Hope we can meet up.
As to getting off the bike and walking down, it happenened to be when they were building the Derby lift. At the top they redirected the rout down Reche. I had skied it many times and thought nothing of it untill it came to riding down. It is actually quite steep and I could see why it used to be a black piste. I got off and walked.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thursday 27 April. The winter is really back and we had another powder day, this time in Val Thorens!
Started as the lifts opened and skied all day until after they had closed. Found some great powder and plenty of fresh tracks in the cliffs where the vis was better up on Caron, in the Orelle Valley and on the Peclet Glacier.
Light snow was falling most of the day and more is forecast over the next 24hrs so we are hoping for a few more powder days before all the lifts in the area finally close.
Anyone out in Espace Killy or Val Thorens is going to have a great time. I might even get up into Les Arcs area again tomorrow depending on the weather.
A few photos have been posted on the Les Arcs Winter page. Enjoy!
@johnE, They have already started to do work on the old Beguin Hotel and the development sign has been up for a while with the new name displayed. I will get a few photos of the different developments around Les Arcs when the weather improves. However as others have mentioned, do we really need all these new residences. Where will everyone go when it is high season and the lifts queues are to long and the pistes are full!!?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Friday 28 April. Snowing down to 1000m last night. Great to wake up this morning to a curtain of white from just around the level of the Montrigon. It has now stopped snowing lower down and the snow level is slowly moving up again, but right now it is still white in the trees from around Les Granges.
More to follow later. In the mean time take a look at the webcams.
Ski touring is fun in these conditions for anyone able to get out here over the weekend.
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Friday 28 April. Very mixed snow on the Aiguille Rouge today.
After a lazy start I drove up (funi and lifts are closed) to Arc 2000 and then went for a little skinning trip.
Thought it would be fun to get up onto the Aiguille Rouge with the fresh snow falling lightly all day above 2000m.
I never thought how far it really was to skin up to the top until today. You do not realize how fast the lifts are until you must skin up. I think I am not as fit as I was, it took me longer than two years ago.
I used the track from Arc 2000 up towards Lanchette and then past Genepy and onto the ridge. That was far enough! I did not get too the top today, maybe next time!
Set off down and had fresh tracks everywhere once away from the normal piste routes. I discovered that some locals had a skidoo with them and were making laps using this as the lifts were closed. At least they did not go the way I went whilst I was on the way up! Yuk! Those things are noisy! So much for my peace and quiet on the mountain!
I managed one route this afternoon. Not much I know, but better than staying at home all day.
The snow high up was good, light and soft, but not for very long. It rapidly became heavier and even a little wet and sticky lower down. With light thinner touring skis this was a challenge, but well worth the effort.
For anyone thinking of grabbing a few extra days. The forecast is for more snow after a little sun this weekend, but you need to stay high as the snow is very thin below 2000m and most lower areas are not really possible to ski or board. Plus the snow around 2500m and below is becoming sticky and heavier very quickly so you need to be out straight after it has snowed to make it worth the effort.
A few photos from today are posted on the Les Arcs Winter facebook page. See what Les Arcs is looking like right now, and this is the end of April.
https://www.facebook.com/LesArcsWinter/
Tomorrow we are off to Val Thorens again before the lifts close. The season is not over yet!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Monday 1st May. What a difference a day makes. Today you have snow again right down to the valley in the morning. Melting fast and now only a few patches reported in shaded places. But still, if you get up the mountain this afternoon or tomorrow it should be fun!
More snow predicted in the next few days, the winter is not over even if it is May 1st!
Maybe the Swiss weather and snow Uni that made a prediction back in November 2016 based on recent patterns are correct. The resorts might need to shift the winter season back a month and keep the lifts running into May or maybe make the season longer again as it was some years ago.
Very few places still open now. Val Thorens shuts today! I did not have a chance to get back today, pity! Tignes is still open till next weekend as are a few other glacier areas in Switzerland and Austria. If the snow keeps falling and it stays cold. There will be plenty of skinning to do this month and maybe a trip to the high glaciers as well.
For all those that like to follow the snow conditions. Check out the webcams. It is looking good!
http://www.lesarcs.com/webcams.html
More to follow after I have been up in the snow again!
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FAQ
