 Poster: A snowHead
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@BobinCH, I reckon you are right given i am a Wally!!
That looks awesome - what skiis you on?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@BobinCH, I reckon you are right given i am a Wally!!
That looks awesome - what skiis you on?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ozboy wrote: |
@BobinCH, I reckon you are right given i am a Wally!!
That looks awesome - what skiis you on? |
Those are the old DPS Lotus 124 Alchemists (not strictly touring skis  ). Will be on the Spoons at the weekend. Touring can wait!!!
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Great bit of footage Bob. My mate lives in Grindelwald and is reporting similar conditions, enjoy and be very careful off- piste!!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Despite the science pretty sure Ozboy’s cycling is going to benefit from his ski touring... |
I don't think anyone is saying it won't. Once again I will say you will likely find a positive correlation between the two. Is skinning the most efficient way to improve cycling performance, or even sufficient to maximise cycling performance? Clearly not, cycling is much better. Is Ozboy putting himself at a disadvantage by not cycling during winter and using just ski touring - I'd say yes (but I couldn't put a number on it). But again I'm talking about maximising performance. If he just wants to enjoy winter and his goal is just to get round his bike event rather than setting great times, touring only than switching to biking after winter isn't a disaster.
I think purely from a weigh loss point or view you can't beat having a bike (even a piece of junk second hand bike) on a turbo trainer. It's so easy to just go on for 30mins zone 2 to burn some extra kcal while doing emails or watching TV etc., and it's low intensity enough that it's not going to create fatigue that will interfere with skiing. There are going to be days where the weather/snow is bad and the last thing you want is to go touring, stay nice and warm and switch the work out for cycling.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| jedster wrote: |
| .....I haven't seen any studies but given neither skinning or cycling are very technical...... |
Mmmm does depend on where you are skinning, we have one route that we call "47 kick-turns" and that's in a forest and depending on the snow-pack it can be very technical, along with other routes where I certainly would not take inexperienced people.
And even in Spring you can end up with a technical climb, especially if you don't have crampons  |
Of course you are right. But you aren't really doing speed tests on that terrain!
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| Quote: |
Regarding ski touring not being technical. I somewhat agree, but I think there is enough technique involved that it matters. I've certainly seen first time tourers struggle much more than their less fit but experienced friends. Some of this is not necessary physical but also experience related e.g. poor pacing, setting inefficient skin track angle, lots of stops that can be reduced purely with more experience (e.g. better clothing layering system), slower transitions etc. Even as a semi experienced tourer my first tour always features much more faffing than towards the end of the season when I'm back in more of a groove.
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I agree with that but I was comparing to something like swimming, skating or cross country skiing - all CV heavy disciplines but ones where the limit on performance for the fairly inexperienced is likely to be technique more than CV. Unless you are on very technical ground, a beginner ski tourer with a big engine is likely to be pretty quick.
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Perhaps other people don't feel the same but I find skinning a lot like cycling in that the motions seem very sympathetic to normal physiology - it's not like swimming or running which needs quite a lot of adaptation to go long and pain free.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@jedster, aaaaahhhh didn't realise you were talking about speed tests.
Last season and so far this season, it's very easy to spot the uber-fit, yet inexperienced (technique-wise) dudes ski-touring.
They're all sub 30's and are going at a hell of a pace (often wearing a helmet) but their stance/core is all hunched over, poles usually too short, and they are on their heel risers when a more experienced tourer might still be on flats, and then their kick turns......
Though last week going up the groomed pistes of Montgenevre there were some speed freaks, no back-pack and just flying up!
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What about cadence vs stride length? I noticed the ski-mountaineering racers favour cadence.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@jedster, I used to think this , but I feel a massive difference between bike fit and ski touring fit , wether its different muscle groups or time ascending and descending , but every winter after a big years riding and feeling super fit on a bike the uphill walks take a lot of getting used to again , best training for walking uphill on skis is walking / running on steep trails in the hills with a weighted pack IMHO
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dabber, what about once you are over the initial re-adaptation…. Do you feel you’re endurance / cv engine is improved after a big year on the bike.
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For sure , the bike has defo improved endurance and cv and is much more fun way to train , over last couple of years I’ve took to fast weighted winter hikes in Snowdonia and lakes where I can find the vertical and conditions that helps adapting to ski season . Unfortunately knees won’t allow for much running any more , but my son who is a guide swears by trail running for maintaining fitness over the summer for the winter
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You know it makes sense.
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I managed to get back into trail running this summer in the UK and running generally and it would seem that I'm way better on the uphill trail segments (in the top 20%) than those segments on the flat (in the top 40%) now is that something that is helped by a pedigree of cycling up Mountains along with a lot of ski-touring (50+ sorties last season) ?
Only trouble is that I have Achilles Tendonitis that flared up again when I was ski-touring last season at pace, I then managed to almost alleviate it by the Autumn and then it on one of my last fast 5kms a few weeks ago it came back viciously, so I'm being very good at not pushing the pace touring and treating it with massage and laser therapy and staying off the turbo.
It's going to be another wet 500m later this morning as it's puking down.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| jedster wrote: |
| Perhaps other people don't feel the same but I find skinning a lot like cycling in that the motions seem very sympathetic to normal physiology - it's not like swimming or running which needs quite a lot of adaptation to go long and pain free. |
Same for me. A good ski tour is very similar to climbing the local hills on the bike. Get into a nice rhythm and then crank up the pace at the end in preparation for a fast and furious ride down 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@BobinCH, well I certainly wouldn't be going out on the bike in these conditions
It's going to be hard workout again me thinks, plus going to leave the mutt at home as maybe he should rest?
Go up around Noon as the dameuses will hopefully be at lunch?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dabber wrote: |
| @jedster, I used to think this , but I feel a massive difference between bike fit and ski touring fit , wether its different muscle groups or time ascending and descending , but every winter after a big years riding and feeling super fit on a bike the uphill walks take a lot of getting used to again , best training for walking uphill on skis is walking / running on steep trails in the hills with a weighted pack IMHO |
Personally I wouldn't run with a weighted pack as training for ski touring. That's high impact on joints and the wear and tear isn't worth it at my age (51). One of the attractive features of skinning is that it is quite low impact. When I was younger I ran with packs a bit and I never really felt it gave me much vs running further/faster.
I wouldn't regard myself as super fit on a bike at all but I do cycle pretty regularly. I spent a week hiking and mountaineering in the alps in October and I found it very quick to adapt to. Base CV fitness carried me through.
We peaked at 3100m so there wasn't much acclimatisation to deal with.
I would agree that hiking is probably the best preparation for skinning (apart from skinning!) though.
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sorry defo didn't mean running with weighted pack , your so right too much wear and tear for sure , running off road with a mix of ups and downs is good training. but ive found brisk hikes on steep terrain with a pack was great preparation for. long days on skis 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ozboy, was thinking if you're in the mountains what about XC skating, that is a real work-out !!!
Think our pistes might be ready from this weekend which ties in nicely with the non Japow conditions forecast for next week, sunshine and +5
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@Weathercam, yup really keen to try it. That was the plan last season as XC centre was open but travel ban stopped us going. Good excuse for new kit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Crazy amounts of snow in the PDS/NW Alps. Avalanche risk 5 yesterday. A metre fell in my garden in 48 hours.
Touring proving to be a little tricky. Steep and it’s dangerous, shallow and you stop!
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@zzz, ahhh see there are advantages to the Lautaret and not getting stupid amounts of snow
That said see the drifts that have built up in the last 18hrs at the bottom of our road and then what the hell it's like at altitude!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Started the weight loss diet
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@BobinCH, well it's a Sunday
I was even hooning around the piste today, no back-pack, no transceiver and I had a hot chocolate.
Look at the difference in HR !!
Today Piste cruising Strava inc Cafe stop
Speed 20.3km/h 60.0km/h
Heart Rate av 87bpm max132bpm
Calories 602
Moving Time 1:46:32
Elapsed Time 2:53:51
Yesterday Side Country (two small climbs) Strava
Speed 6.8km/h 42.8km/h
Heart Rate av 120bpm max 157bpm
Calories 1,010
Moving Time 1:31:02
Elapsed Time 2:30:38
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You know it makes sense.
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Patrouille des Glaciers 2022 - We’re in!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Finally got my hands on my Superguide freetours that have been gathering dust for 12 months. Salomon MTNs will be fitted. What’s the worst that can happen…?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Sharkymark, you'll love them, I'm so impressed with them over my previous SuperGuides 105.
I'd equate their ability to smash through and ski technical snow on a par with my Black Crows Atris but at about half the weight, as in the pictures above with the shrapnel flying everywhere, plus you can see the shovels on them in the picture of us skinning.
Trouble is have not been touring for well over a week as the snow-pack is dire at the moment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fantastic, you'll have a ball on those!
Had my first tour of the year yesterday, first use in anger of my crampons as well as a freeze thaw cycle had left a horrendous icy crust that i couldn't get purchase on with just the skins. Crampons are my new best friends, wonderful things.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| coddlesangers wrote: |
Fantastic, you'll have a ball on those!
Had my first tour of the year yesterday, first use in anger of my crampons as well as a freeze thaw cycle had left a horrendous icy crust that i couldn't get purchase on with just the skins. Crampons are my new best friends, wonderful things. |
I went without the other day on boilerplate and seriously regretted it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@coddlesangers, one of the first thing in the pack for me , I a fan of putting them on well in advance of any morning ice traverses , as feel the help and confidence they give far outweighs any pace and drag issues , also helps getting used to walking without the risers as so Much better traction !!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Weathercam, that's good to know; they're also replacing superguide 105s in my quiver. I really rated the superguides but they certainly get thrown around a lot in choppy / firm snow and mine have taken a lot of abuse over the past 5 years...
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@BobinCH, I tend to throw them in more often that not: if you need couteau, nothing else will do...
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| Sharkymark wrote: |
| @BobinCH, I tend to throw them in more often that not: if you need couteau, nothing else will do... |
I had to bootpack and kick steps to get out of the forest 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
