 Poster: A snowHead
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the exercise that they've been asked to do
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there isnt an exercise, it was to be the fastest in the course, the coach didnt say ski the gates by moving your hips into the turn or anything else...
dont assume anything, what does the video show... sH:
AndAnotherThing.., hands dont matter much in gates... he is fighting for speed and survival, hands will fly about and arent a major tell tale sign :
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The more I watch GS guy the better it looks but I see it looking like the inside ski is doing a lot of the work and the pelvis looks like it's tilted the wrong way so he's not getting on the outside ski early enough. Could be completely wrong. He improves a lot by run 6.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I understand the direction skimottaret, is taking the discussion, but if you are practicing O&A it's important not to forget the actual question we are trying to answer for clients.
As Instructors and Coaches we're asking "Whats' the one thing* that's going to most help the client improve their performance ?". In the case of the racer the task is very clear, so the question becomes "What's the one thing that's going to help the racer complete the course faster ?" The answer could mean building on a technical technical strength or addressing a weakness but could also mean addressing tactical, psychological or other aspects of the performance. Looking at the whole picture is more likely to give the answer.
Which takes us back to 'Line' 
* It's easier to make change when focusing on a single thing during a run.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AndAnotherThing.., Very good point, changing his line will give him a faster time initially, but there will come a *point where he will struggle to hold that new line, so is it better to focus on immediate smaller gains or long term bigger ones, line change first or technique change first?
*the point he’s nearly at right now*
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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gatecrasher, It could mean skiing the optimum line for their current skill set consistently. I agree that selecting a more aggressive line will need a change in technique.
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Pedantica, hmmm.. If you think I am a hard ass have a look at some interviews of our national team coaches and athletes as to what they feel is important in coaching.
Bit of thread drift but as we are talking about line and tactics and psychology now as part of focusing of what is happening during skier analysis it may be interesting to hear from some athletes and coaches about how they go about things... (it is about 15 minutes of interviews but worth a watch)
https://vimeo.com/49008043
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skimottaret, just kiddin', you know I love it really. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, This thread, and similar ones, might benefit from being somewhere that only instructors could view and post to it.
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rjs, why?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hmm.
a) there are a lot of would-be instructors on snowHeads and b) there are a lot of punters who are interested in and can benefit from an insight into teaching methods. Personally I do not favour the 'teacher knows best and don't ask questions' school of tuition. In any subject. I like to understand what's being said to me and why it is being said.
However, rjs' suggestion would admittedly put an end to the heinous crime of facetious asides from mere punters. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rjs wrote: |
| skimottaret, This thread, and similar ones, might benefit from being somewhere that only instructors could view and post to it. |
Because it's all a big secret and punters can't learn anything themselves by observation? Admittedly I might dick around a lot but I do get something out of watching other skiers and clumsily attempting to articulate the problem even though I tend to see symptoms rather than solutions and don't really think about skiing in a "must do this, must do that, must fix the other sense".
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fatbob, Pedantica, This thread isn't about technique or teaching, it is about rehearsing what instructors/coaches say to each other as trainees and mentors. The mentoring part requires practice too.
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, there was talk of having an invite only forum for instructors and coaches to talk shop but nothing came of it. EPic has this for instructors and bootfitters, I personally dont mind chatting in public but sometimes the discussions get too technical and this seems to upset a big swatch of SH's for some reason so I can sympathise with your thoughts.
in terms of mentoring i guess there is an element of that but the OP was asking for help with video analysis so it is more a response to a direct question. If someone asked advice on how to pick the right skis for someone we would have no shortage of "mentoring" 
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 7-09-12 13:12; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rjs wrote: |
| fatbob, Pedantica, This thread isn't about technique or teaching, it is about rehearsing what instructors/coaches say to each other as trainees and mentors. The mentoring part requires practice too. |
can't see why everyone can't see that discussion, and contribute to it if they wish. Answering questions from people who have a different experience, including 'non-coaching', surely is a good thing to do?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rjs wrote: |
| fatbob, Pedantica, This thread isn't about technique or teaching, it is about rehearsing what instructors/coaches say to each other as trainees and mentors. The mentoring part requires practice too. |
So the solution would probably be a clear flag for Instructor to Instructor comments, meaning that punters had a signal not to ask too many questions about the shorthand they use, and they could be blunter.
and I disagree it is about technique and developing instructors' "eye" for things that will make a difference to their clients' technique. Mentoring is fine but I disagree it needs to be practised in private.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 7-09-12 13:36; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It seems to me that the thread grinds to a halt whenever a non-instructor chips in with a "this is too complicated" post. I suspect the same thing would happen if random members of the public were commenting on a lawyer practicing a line of argument or at a theatre rehersal.
I was using "mentoring" in the sense that it would be used here.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rjs wrote: |
| It seems to me that the thread grinds to a halt whenever a non-instructor chips in with a "this is too complicated" post. |
So the challenge for the pros is to explain it simply - the single biggest thing etc. Of course it's complicated - that's why ISTDs aren't given away in packets of Frosties but in the end the rocket scientists need to explain it to the grunt aiming the missile.
Sorry I should say I'm not having a pop or really disagreeeing - just trying to get to something that works as a BZK forum.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rjs, I agree with you on threads get derailed when people chime in with "this is too complicated" but I dont see it happening here. Not sure I understand what point you are trying to make with your BASI mentoring link, I dont pretend to be a L3 coach as I'm not one but in the same vein as non-coaches chipping in should coaches who aren't Level 3's help out with advice as they see fit? I am always eager to hear views and thoughts of other instructors and coaches 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rjs wrote: |
It seems to me that the thread grinds to a halt whenever a non-instructor chips in with a "this is too complicated" post. I suspect the same thing would happen if random members of the public were commenting on a lawyer practicing a line of argument or at a theatre rehersal.
I was using "mentoring" in the sense that it would be used here. |
As this is a public forum I don't think it's a good idea to ask some people to avoid contributing. If coaches or instructors what to sidestep the accusation that discussion is "too complicated" we could take that discussion elsewhere, to a private forum set up for instructors to talk to each other such as the BASI Facebook page, or explain what we are talking about without using 'instructor shorthand' or just ignore the accusations altogether.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, We have had this conversation many times and you are going down the road rjs thought the thread may go. sorry but using technical shorthand is useful when specialists are talking amongst themselves, their language would shift to a more simple tone when chatting to your "grunt". Neither method is right or wrong and discussions on how skiing works as opposed to how to ski have a place on BZK's , you may not like it but if you dont like a conversation you can always bow out ..
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skimottaret, I agree with you & don't really have a problem with technical shorthand - your very useful glossary addresses anyone who seriously wants to understand it. As someone who skis by feel rather than thought I find it difficult to relate a lot of the time but I do try and Private Forums are fine by me if that's what the users want, although probably incompatible with the spirit of shs .
..anyway am I seeing the totally wrong things with yellow kecks guy? Where do I need to be looking?
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skimottaret, You were being a mentor earlier in the thread, I felt that you were providing the right amount of prompting to people, I just gave the L3 coach link to show that this seen as a useful skill and is taught on some courses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Hey I'm not saying I can't learn just that I'm a bit remedial stream. I thought his hips were facing the wrong direction - too far outside the turn. Maybe he's not stacked properly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rjs,
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This thread isn't about technique or teaching, it is about rehearsing what instructors/coaches say to each other as trainees and mentors.
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Really? There is nothing in either the thread title or the original post to suggest to me that the subject was thus restricted. I'm sorry if my tiny little facetious comment - an affectionate one, arising out of many, many hours I have spent being taught by skimottaret - put your nose out of joint.
I guess the instructors on this forum have a choice: advertise themselves (by what they say, not just by website links) and get clients as a result, or squirrel themselves away, can't have it both ways. FWIW, I made a conscious decision not to have lessons with an erstwhile member of this forum because of the snotty attitude displayed by that person: my cash went elsewhere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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benefit from being somewhere that only instructors could view and post to it.
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Has its place but not on a public "recreational forum" How boring would it be if everyone was qualified to "chip in" with the correct answers all the time or never asked those seemingly silly questions, It may even help newly qualified instructors get answers to those seemingly silly questions that they may have wondered about but were too embarrassed to ask, I don't think it harms anyone’s desire to learn more whether they want to gain badges for it or not.
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FAQ
