Friend being sued in Austria for collision-related injury

A snowHead

Of course we should bear in mind that many of our continental cousins may well have private medical insurance through their jobs etc. I know that hotel staff in Switzerland (at least for Swiss hotels) have medical cover included as part of their remuneration, this may explain why holiday insurance is far less common over there

A snowHead

Why did he give his own name? Surely rule number one in any accident - claim not to understand any of the languages on offer and make up a dodgy name? I like the porn star tradition of the name of your first pet and the street you first lived in. Folks please meet Trampas Charleston.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

xander89, me too. I have never heard a good argument for not having travel insurance and, given the cost of a skiing holiday, it is not a significant addition to the total holiday cost anyway.

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D G Orf, I assumed that was exactly why people from lots of countries do not use travel insurance to the extent that people from the UK do - most already have, at the very least, private medical insurance because they live in countries where medical care is not free. That is why the point about 'reciprocal' care with the EHIC does not help the argument that you don't need travel insurance in Europe - you don't as long as you are in a country where all public health treatment is free for all people who live in that country, and you are happy to pay to get yourself and all your broken bits home by private ambulance, plane or helicopter if needs be.

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miranda, indeed, I believe several people on here have mentioned in the past that for a number of french ski resorts you are likely to end up at the nearest hospital which is often private.

The reports from some French resorts post accidents suggest that even having insurance may not be good enough, as ambulance drivers may not transport you without cash in hand

At least the Swiss (who most accuse of being money grabbing and greedy) seem quite happy to sort everything out later, I certainly know of one case where the person was evacuated by chopper and taken straight to surgery and no one asked about payment etc till later, the person concerned had only to pay something like £10 per day for his hospital stay with everything else sorted by the insurance people direct (It was snowcard by the way, I asked because I was impressed with how they handled things).

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D G Orf, hmmm... well, I have had experience in Switzerland of a Saudi Arabian friend being asked for credit card up front and I got treated in France and no asked about payment until later...

I suppose as health insurance is compulsory for all residents in Switzerland, they can be a bit more relaxed about the fact that costs will be met.

After all it is free

miranda, Possibly because he was a Saudi friend, I'm afraid the Swiss do tend to be a bit racist as a country, you tend to see very few non Caucasian people in Switzerland, don't get me wrong the Swiss tend to be a lovely people, they don't hate people with a different skin colour, it's more that they don't trust them, mind you they really don't trust the Russians ! Also as with the French you may find that different ski resorts have different procedures when it comes to asking for payment.

It may well be that the Swiss are more used to going through insurance companies so don't worry about such things as much, I'm not sure.

D G Orf, well it's not because the Swiss nation is more 'caring' than Austria or France so I think the fact that it is a country where everyone is obliged to have health insurance must make some contribution to the fact that people - white people without Russian accents perhaps - are not always asked about their insurance situation before treatment.

Gosh, just looked up the cost in Switzerland as I have been thinking about whether to get a French mutuelle... average monthly compulsory insurance payment was 350 CHF in 2010.

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Probably overkill, I have pretty good travel insurance with my credit card, but I prefer the belt and braces approach of buying insurance on my lift pass. When the chopper lands if you can show them your pass with 'Insurance' stamped on it, there are no issues.

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miranda, is that just health insurance or does that also cover what I think they call employment insurance, which as I recall pays out if you loose your job ?

Switzerland is not a cheep country for us but it's not really the fault of the Swiss, they have a very stable country with a ridiculously low inflation figure, it's the exchange rates that make it expensive for us. I can remember 10 years ago chatting to someone who was a shop assistant (not even a manager) in a local village sports shop and even then they were on I think, about £16,000 a year, at today's rates that would be closer to £32,000 a year and that's without pay increases/inflation etc These days someone in the UK in a similar job would be quite lucky to be on £16,000, more likely it would be closer to £13,000.

The Swiss have a good standard of living but they all seem to work hard to keep that, their taxation system is quite complicated with a Fedral, Cantonal and Communal tax plus a Church tax however it seems well structured with Federal tax starting at under 1% until you earn nigh on 30,000 CHF and even then it goes up slowly to 11.5% at about 700,000ChF per annum, Social security (covering old age and disability) is charged at 10.1% with the employer paying half and the employee paying half.

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D G Orf, just the compulsory health and accident insurance (and not the extras like dental etc.) No need to leap the country's defence - I have worked a lot in Switzerland in the past and I don't expect it to be cheap but 4000+ CHF for the average person is a sizeable amount to be obliged to spend each year on health insurance.

If it ended up 50/50 which could easily have been what it was it means the chap could still be in for 50% costs doesn't it?

The thing is 50/50 accidents must be more than possible. Esp. where one of the party can't see clearly in one direction i.e. boarder on their blind side. Novice skier novice boarder bother on exact same level of the mountian one turns left as the other turns right and wallop, esp. in non-deal conditions where each might be concentrating more on what is ahead than what is to one side, or where it is excessively busy - i.e. Meribel when the ski school come back at lunchtime Skullie

The current litigation society and no win no fee lawyers will be clapping their hands to have discovered the ski industry IMV.

You know it makes sense.

How long until we need insurance for skiing or other similar activities such as cycling, here in the UK ?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Megamum, All of which is grist to the mill of the "Don't tell him your name Pike!" theory if the accident doesn't appear to be that serious.

In the incident I refer to above if I'd have had a serious collision I'd have been the uphill skier and had 3 witnesses potential swearing that I'd been out of control and mowed down the geezer. The fact that the downhill skier "prioity" rule cannot possibly apply when someone starts off blind and at unavoidable proximity (a bit like pulling out from a T junction onto a major trunk road) would just get lost in the noise, nor would the fact that I'd already avoided his numpty GF/sister (hey it was Austria wink

) doing the same thing.

A snowHead

Peter S, I've got cycling isnurance with my CTC membership

A snowHead

Mainland Europeans often don't have 'Travel Insurance' as the UK knows it because they have a general Accident Insurance instead, covering events such as a broken tooth from playing football, tripping up on the street and twisting knee, pedestrian colliding with a cyclist etc and of course including skiing. This insurance usually covers third party liability, which is why it is so important for UK tourists to have this, and might explain why the lady in the OP is taking the other person to court in the expectation that they have third party insurance.

Regarding ID, in Austria you are certainly required to carry your ID card - so for Brits this means Passport. I have had to return to the apartment to retrieve my Passport when a bank clerk refused my driving license as ID when cashing travellers cheques. You'll find that in many resorts, the lift pass T&Cs state that ID must be carried at all times and that you must identify yourself when involved in, or a witness to, a collision.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

In regards to ID whilst in Austria, found this on FCO site
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/austria

"Under Austrian law, you are required to have your passport readily accessible at all times. If you do not carry your passport with you, your passport must be in the same district as you and you must be able to access it within one hour. A UK driving licence is not recognised as an official form of ID."

So you don't need ID on you, phew what a relief as I was about to hand myself in for not having my passport on me for the last year whilst in Austria. Though accessible within 1 hour, that would have been stretching it. No way would I take a passport skiing with me, it would get knackered, wet and eventually lost.

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waynos,

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waynos, That's that I was referring to in my post ont eh subject.

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I remember reading the small print on my lift pass / map thing on one of my first ski trips, think it was France, and it said that it was a criminal offence to leave the scene of a ski accident or not to help, even if you weren't involved. That's one of the differences between civil and common law jurisdictions, they crminalise failures to do things much more readily.

So help out if you see an incident snow heads!

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Sorry I haven't ben able to drop in for a couple of days, glad to see the thread has provoked a bit of discussion.

My view is biased, but I know the guy is a reasonable and sensible person who would hold his hand up if he thought that it was his fault. I think his main lesson from the experience is that he is very glad the he got the incident logged with his insurers at the time, but regrets not getting details of other witnesses.

After all it is free

Where does this info come from?

altis, from what she said in her deposition to the court

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Was worried it came from your mate - which would have suggested that he had clocked her but didn't leave enough room when overtaking - rules 3 and 4.

Sounds more like a case of inexperienced skier realizes they need to be somewhere else and suddenly takes off at right angles to the flow of traffic. Seen it happen so many times. Unfortunately, a skier following the fall line still has to keep out of the way.

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altis, the slightly odd bit is that the collision caused a cuddle - from which she then fell backwards and injured her knee.

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[quote="Megamum"]If it ended up 50/50 which could easily have been what it was it means the chap could still be in for 50% costs doesn't it?

Afraid so, at least that happpens in uk

FP: Which suggests that the injury was not caused by the collision but, rather, the fall. What type of bindings were they? Do they have vertical, front release? Could be that the bindings were set incorrectly or that she failed to brace sufficiently to make the bindings 'break'.

It always worries me when I hear instructors advising clients to relax in a fall. You can relax yourself into such an awkward position that soft tissue inevitably goes before the bindings. I prefer to relax as far as is comfortable but then suddenly tense up the legs to force the bindings to pop.

You know it makes sense.

altis, sorry, the "friend" is not actually me rolling eyes

- so I wasn't there but am relying on his account. But - agreed - the problem could be the binding - or the lady overstating her ability so that the binding was set too high or...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

It always amaze me that any sort of injury thread on snowhead will turn into an insurance advertisement!

A snowHead

abc, perhaps because the UK has free healthcare, and many of the places we visit don't?

A snowHead

Hells Bells, The systems in Germany, France and Austria are as free as those in the UK if you pay into them. There is universal healthcare in most of Europe. I think it is a fallacy that is perpetuated by many uninformed or just inexperienced outside their own boundaries. And of course, it helps sell insurance doesn't it! wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Samerberg Sue, yes I know, and hubby was well looked after by French healthcare at minimal cost. The ambulance costs, and flights home (we had driven out and he was advised not to go home by car) were covered by the insurers, and came to a couple of grand, which we could have stretched to if necessary, but repatriation costs if you need an air ambulance are huge, and not everyone goes to EU destinations. I dread to think what the cost would have been if the accident has happened in USA or Canada.

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miranda, confused me a bit too. There is 20% (or more) that isn't, and you need private insurance to cover it if you don't want to pay.

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You can't complete an online purchase of a holiday in majorca with some package operators without buying their insurance or stating the name of your insurance company. I personally consider that unnecessary

I also consider carre neige with your lift pass more than adequate insurance for any french ski trip

The major winners here are insurance co's

If you have ploughed 100s or 1000s into holiday insurance over the years you will be retorting back I am a dimwit for pointing this out

But I haven't seen so many Europeans left bleeding to their deaths on french slopes...

After all it is free

I don't know what all this stuff about Europeans skiing without insurance is though - everyone round here has some form of Carte Neige type cover for rescue... is it really so different everywhere else?

patricksh, sorry, but you do sound like a dimwit.

French people pay their health insurance fees AND they pay for Carre Neige rescue - this is MORE money in total than your average UK travel insurance premium which will cover you for rescue and medical bills.

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I think this has already been written but as nobody can be bothered to read it I get to write it again!

In Austria and Germany it is quite normal for people to have liability insurance.

In Austria the majority have medical insurance covered by their local authority (GKK - like the NHS and pensions/benefits).
There are also another 4 or 5 options that are related to your 'union' and type of work.
Then, of course, there is the 100% private option.

Rescue insurance.
In Austria you must pay for any ambulance and helicopter but I think that mountain rescue is 'free' as it is covered by the volunteer services.
So some people get an individual premium to cover all emergency recovery (which used to cost me about €15 pp per month) or some (like me) get the ski instructors insurance for €15 per year which covers most of it. I am also going to join the mountain rescue 'club' which includes total family cover for €45 per year plus the OAMTC (AA) do all roadside rescues for about €70 per year.

Help!!

Friend being sued in Austria for collision-related injury

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