 Poster: A snowHead
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I used to be a gnarly off piste skier like you, then I took an arrow to the knee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dr John, That is clarky999 though I see you've caught him when he isn't wearing his Tall-T or XXXXL Basketball vest & of course he's taken off his helmet hence the Sweet Helmet Hair.
So a rare thread where everyone's in agreement - if you like cruising place to place then kms are important to you, if you don't they're not, simples. The moral of this story is try to organise group trips with a group when people are of like mind or alternatively big enough you can splinter into your interest groups. Personally I quite like pistes, but I like to find a nice quiet one in good condition then blast a few laps of it then I'll move on somewhere else. This tends to make me a bit incompatible with the we've got to get to point X to meet person Y for coffee members of my group.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Some people seem to be a bit too hung up on the size of everything and keeping a score chart 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As someone that spent about 5 consecutive week long holidays in a resort with about 14Km of piste available I am going to say it depends on how well you ski. For most of that time I could scarcely stagger down the nursery slope and the rest of the slopes didn't matter. As I got better I skied more of it - though never skied all the blacks - had a crack at a couple, but never all. I was then exposed to a mega-resort and then found that same resort seemed far too small. I went back once more, but doubt that I will return unless for a day trip one day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| paulio wrote: |
| I used to be a gnarly off piste skier like you, then I took an arrow to the knee. |
Is this the first shs use of this particular meme? At least it prompted me to look up it's origins having seen it crop up lots of places in the past week.
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Size really does matter-as do technique,ability,speed and frequency. A large one will usually provide entertainment for a wide variety of users 
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| Megamum wrote: |
| all the blacks |
er, how many were there in a resort with 14k?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dr John, One that was all black, guessing about 300yds long (it has the distinction of being my first black in 2009 - snow was fairly ideal when I did it too - I did it again the following year). One that was a black section linking back into a red lower down - guessing about 250yds long (skied that one twice) and one that was a black section off the bottom of a red chunk leading to another blue - probably a tad longer than the other 2 sections, but only guessing as that was one that I never skied 'cos it looked fairly grim from the perspective of standing on the blue and looking up it. So on the piste map three bits that were black.
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I don't understand why some skiers are obsessed with the large size of a resort as one can always choose to ski within a small area in any large resort.
Take La Tania as an example. It is a small part of Courchevel which itself is one of the 3 to 4 valley of the 3V in France.
The peak season day ski pass for La Tania, Courchevel (covering Courchevel 1850, 1650, 1550, Le Praz and La Tania) and 3V (everywhere) are 17.50 (Mini La Tania pass), 40.50 and 48.50 Euro. If ones prefers small then sticks to the small area like La Tania and don't wonder off the boundary limit. Everyone can choose to ski a small portion of a big domain at a fraction of the price for the full area.
Bergfex reports 360,180, 136 and 217 resorts in Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Germany respectively. These are 893 resorts without counting those from France, Spain and Eastern Europe. One can satisfies oneself by skiing in any one of them. I am probably amount the minority interested in sampling some of the larger ones as I don't think I could manage to sample more than 15% of the Alpine resorts in my time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed” (Peter Kay)
Having said that, a good big 'un beats a good little 'un
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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I suppose it depends on what people look for in a skiing holiday. If it's purely and simply skiing then 150km is way more than you need for an interesting and rewarding week, IMO. Last season I spent three and a half weeks skiing an area with 18km of piste and loved my time there. It included some gentle terrain, some moderate terrain and some steep terrain, plus a little bit of off-piste and a park for those interested in some freestyle. What more do you need?
On the other hand if your holiday includes the option to ski to and from different villages, sample different restaurants, have a range of scenery to enjoy, get a sense of achievement from travelling in the mountains then I'd say that 150km is just about adequate, but only if it serves a couple or more different villages. Seems a perfectly reasonable threshold to look for.
Vive la différence!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| homers double wrote: |
| Got to love an internet where everyone is tall, athletic, rich as well as skiing exclusively off piste and only using groomed slopes to take a breather and remove their head from up their own ass. |
Man, funniest thing I've read in a long time. Would helmet wearing be recommended for this or not?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, +1
Not everyone goes on a skiing holiday to perfect their skiing technique and challenge themselves. Its a bit snobby of some people on this thread to think so. I know it seems sacrilege but some people learn to ski, not to become an expert skier and be able to tackle more an more knarly terrain, but to get to a standard where they are able to get around the mountain at a decent speed on more routes so as not to be restricted where they can go and to enjoy time with their mates. Once they can do that they are more than happy.
To get into this mindset think of it like a winter walking holiday.
You wouldn't be happy walking up and down the same hill every day, why should you be happy to do that when skiing?
(Not me though, I'd be happy if its snowy and steep)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Even the complete beginners will be cruising the blues after 3 or 4 days. Lapping 2 or 3 of the same pistes get's pretty boring even for learners.
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Dr John, I am living proof that not all beginners will be cruising blues after 3-4 days!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So, to summarise three pages in one post:
1. If you want to tell everyone how much mileage a fast, mean cruiser like you devour in a week, you need to boast that a small resort would cramp your style
2. If you want to tell the world that you're a gnarly nutter, you sneer at the need for any pistes at all
3. If you want to tell the world about your impeccable knack for locating perfect alpine huts with flowing wine and perfect peasant cuisine, you laugh at anyone who mistakenly thinks that there's more to skiing than vin chaud
4. If you want to tell the world how broad minded you are, you self-righteously tell 1. to 3. that they're narrow minded
But I must take issue with this:
| Flet©h wrote: |
| You wouldn't be happy walking up and down the same hill every day, why should you be happy to do that when skiing? |
For me, a good hill is like a favourite piece of music: it improves with familiarity. This summer, I cycled up a 1300m prominence Alp four days out of five and walked up it on the remaining day. Every trip was different, and each day the mountain revealed a few more secrets; I can honestly say that the last trip was even better than the first. Each day I considered other mountains, but the same hill irresistibly drew me back.
Nearer home, I've walked up some of the Brecon Beacons dozens of times, and I never tire of their desolate beauty. Would Monet have enjoyed Rouen Cathedral more if he'd visited once and never returned? I think not, and the world would have been a poorer place if he had.
In my view, if a run is worth skiing once, it's worth skiing fifty times.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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5. If you want to tell people you are up your own @rse and better than every one else, post like JJ
ok bye
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hahaha
Hohoho
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Voice of Treason,
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
But I must take issue with this:
| Flet©h wrote: |
| You wouldn't be happy walking up and down the same hill every day, why should you be happy to do that when skiing? |
For me, a good hill is like a favourite piece of music: it improves with familiarity. This summer, I cycled up a 1300m prominence Alp four days out of five and walked up it on the remaining day. Every trip was different, and each day the mountain revealed a few more secrets; I can honestly say that the last trip was even better than the first. Each day I considered other mountains, but the same hill irresistibly drew me back.
Nearer home, I've walked up some of the Brecon Beacons dozens of times, and I never tire of their desolate beauty. Would Monet have enjoyed Rouen Cathedral more if he'd visited once and never returned? I think not, and the world would have been a poorer place if he had.
In my view, if a run is worth skiing once, it's worth skiing fifty times. |
But that is fairly expert level cycling, it is a challenge to climb a vertical ascent of 1300m, regardless of what you did yesterday. The point of my post was to say "not everyone is like you" and you have taken objection to the fact that not everyone enjoys skiing/cycling/walking the same way you do. Fairly snobby, that is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Also, how would 'lapping 2 or 3 of the same pistes' get pretty boring for learners ?
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Indeed. It's as absurd to generalise about learners as about experts. Some learners get so hooked on lapping the same 2 or 3 pistes that getting them to go anywhere else is like pulling teeth. I have a brother in law exactly like that. And anyone who thinks learners are necessarily "cruising the blues" after a few days and looking for mileage has a very limited experience of learners! I have a lot of experience of slow learners (it's my age....) and have found that what is vital (apart from the quality of ski tuition they get, rather neglected in this thread so far) is having very gently graduated slopes so that you can take them a bit further afield, to a new restaurant for example, whilst being able to guarantee that they won't be faced with a big jump in difficulty of slope (or lift, if you're talking drags). On the other hand we've had (younger, braver, fitter) learners who are making a decent fist of a red run in their first week - especially applies to snow boarders.
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pam w, Opinion was sought, opinion was given. Given that I (or anyone else here I'm guessing) don't know the OP personally, how can advice be anything other than general? I based that comment on my own experience when learning and that of a couple of friends who recently learned and complained that they were bored. Your experience is different, and no less of a generalisation or any more/less valid than my comment.
The OP now has several opinions on which to base their decision. What's absurd about that?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mileage of pistes is just one of many factors that make a great resort. My priorities in a rough order of preference are:-
1/ Snow - lots of it and the lighter it is the better.
2/ Easily accessible and relatively safe off-piste.
3/ No crowds, no lift queues
4/ Interesting variety of terrain with long runs, trees, bowls, steeps etc.
5/ Ski-in-out with minimal walking - unless specifically touring
6/ A decent vertical drop and ski area with high speed lifts.
7/ Decent accomodation and food
IME mega-sized resorts (3V etc) don't really cut it on my list of priorities for a number of reasons, although I've still enjoyed skiing them anyway over the years. But if I was going to look at one thing and one thing only it would be the snow record, not the resort size in terms of marked pistes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| moffatross wrote: |
| And why 150 km exactly ? Is that the minimum distance that's satisfying to clock up on a GPS ? |
What a lot of aggro given all posters here seem to agree!
If you assume that a piste is 3km, that's 50 pistes. Let's say 15 black, so off limits for a beginner. 15 red, of which a small handful might be touched during the first week. 15 blue, of which 3 are too difficult owing to ice/bare patches etc. And 5 green That leaves a dozen slopes for our intrepid adventurer to cut his teeth on.
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I would venture to say a resort with 200km piste is bordering on the mega size as majority of the Austrian, Swiss and the Italian are below this threshold. Those resorts having above 200km are Les Arcs, La Plagne(225), L2A, Verbier(206), Wengen, Flims/Laax/Falera(220), Saalbach/Hinterglemm/Leogang(220), LDH(248), Ischgl/Samnaun(235), Ski Wekt (250), Serre Chevalier(250), Grand Massif Flaine/La Carroz/Morilon/Sameon(265), Arlberg St Anton/Lech/Zurs (280), Domaine Evasion Megeve/St Gervais/Rochebrune/Combloux(300), Espace Killy Val D/Tignes (300)....
200km resorts can be combined to form a mega size like Les Arcs with La Plagne to form Paradiski. I myself always look upon 3V formed by linking approximately 3 resorts each 200km.
A 150km piste resorts is a decent size suitable for most skiers who go skiing one week at a time. Below the 150km size could be viewed as the small enjoyable resorts some SHs may be thinking of.
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You know it makes sense.
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If this helps, I believe its a matter of personal opinion, based on how much skiing you want to do or can manage, either through personal fitness lavels or what the conditions allow. E.g. I was in Tignes just before Xmas, and the weather was crap (although the snow was fantastic) - cold, windy and cloudy, therefore we couldn't get over to Val d'Isere until later in the week. As a result I haven't done the area justice, but we simply couldn't have done any more miles - it wsnt available to us. Last March I was in Les Arcs (been before) and we couldnt ski low as it was too bloody warm, so needed to get over to La Plagne for some variety after a few days, because the snow wasn't available. I have been to Les Arcs in fantastic conditions and you could manage a great week without being bored there without needing the Pardiski pass. However, I've also skied 3 Valleys from Courchevel 1850, and even in great conditions there's not enough in the local pass to keep the interest for a week - you need to be able to get over at least to Meribel so IMO would need the larger pass. I've also been to smaller resorts e.e Valmeinier and Alpbach, and had a great time, but they wouldnt be my 1st choice now if I was simply going for the skiing. Because of experiencing different limitations and opportunities, personally I would always pick a resort with as many kms available within the other choice parameters - I would be put-off by anything below 100km because it might not all be open! (I'd say I'm a strong intermediate, can get down pretty much any piste, but not necessarily looking all that controlled or comfortable!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
However, I've also skied 3 Valleys from Courchevel 1850, and even in great conditions there's not enough in the local pass to keep the interest for a week - you need to be able to get over at least to Meribel so IMO would need the larger pass
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I think that's a bit of a silly thing to say. I spent a season in Courchevel, now I had a 3v pass but I didnt get board of the 3V in 4.5 months.. I reckon 1 V can keep you busy for a week...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| jedster wrote: |
| Quote: |
However, I've also skied 3 Valleys from Courchevel 1850, and even in great conditions there's not enough in the local pass to keep the interest for a week - you need to be able to get over at least to Meribel so IMO would need the larger pass
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I think that's a bit of a silly thing to say. I spent a season in Courchevel, now I had a 3v pass but I didnt get board of the 3V in 4.5 months.. I reckon 1 V can keep you busy for a week... |
Not so much silly as simplistic. We all enjoy different aspects of skiing. Some people aren't happy if they have to ski the same piste more than once; that kind of skier will only ever enjoy a mega-resort. Other skiers are happy with a little repetition, and they can make do with a smaller area.
I'm at the more extreme end of that spectrum: I get my kicks from the more unusual parts od skiing like bumps, glades, steeps and any kind of ungroomed terrain. So piste km are somewhat irrelevent to me, as the the figure only tells me how much of the mountain that I don't want to ski. I wish that resorts would cite figures for the number of km of ungroomed runs instead or, better, switch to the North American method of quoting the total acreage of avalanche controlled terrain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The two smallish Canadian resorts where we used to have season passes (pre kids!) had 91 and 92km of runs respectively. And that was plenty. KM of piste doesn't tell the whole story - you can't measure bowls, glades, gullies etc by the KM. I actually quite like knowing a resort well enough to not need to look at a map, to know where the secret locals runs which aren't on the map are, where the best conditions are likely to be found days after the last snow/when it's windy/when visibility is reduced etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Personally I'm happy if there's snow and I'm sliding... I only get moderately bored by the end of 3 hours in the snowdome. Repeating pistes is fine with me, normally because I know I could ski it much better 2nd or 3rd time round. Plus some runs are just so much fun it'd be rude to only do them once.
I would also rather ski one empty piste 8 times than 8 different busy pistes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I would also rather ski one empty piste 8 times than 8 different busy pistes.
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What a good point! Especially if the 8 busy pistes resemble each other rather closely, which is so often the case.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My approach is to try and cover most of the areas in each resort early on, without necessarily skiing all the runs, to try and work out which areas have the nicest runs and suss out conditions.
Then later on in the holiday, you can go back to your favourite runs and make better judgements about conditions based on your earlier expeditions.
Back to the original question, on that basis, I'd be happy with about 100km of piste for a week, I wouldn't enjoy myself half as much if I didn't repeat my favourites again and again.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Today I played on 3 different lifts on one hill with my 5 year old. We skied most the time off the side of the piste in the trees and some areas in between piste. The lifts probably gave access to 20 - 40kms of piste. Quite busy on piste today with Dutch and Belgium so felt far safer off the piste with non-moving trees than on piste with lots of moving human missiles.
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I tend to worry more about how good the snow cover is likely to be, whether there are some shielded pistes to escape to on a very windy or nearly white out day and whether I can afford a reasonably close to slopeside location rather than the available km. Favourite areas so far were Are Sweden and Sunshine in Canada neither of which are up there in terms of length of available terrain.
The real clincher for me is the length of transfer to resort, if its more than 2 hours its not gonna happen.
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It's human nature to explore, so to prefer a resort with fewer km's is to go against evolution.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Strong opinions here aren't there!!
For what it's worth,having converted several friends and even a girlfriend (  ) to skiing over the last few years on various holidays, what they want is variable, and a bit unpredictable until you get them on the piste. The guys you expect to want to roam and see the mountain end up wanting to stay on one piste practicing turns all day and vice versa.
My advice would be-
- No beginner needs more than 150km of pistes in their first week
- Have a good look at the piste map, if you are planning on a bigger resort make sure you can get to the various villages staying on blues. Also importantly when you get there make sure you ski the blues before bringing the beginners there, plenty of resorts have somewhat liberally marked pistes to keep areas accessible, so this is particularly possible on pistes between areas or down to villages
- again in poor conditions (thinking icy in particular!) make sure you have been down the runs first. I tend to plan a route for the afternoon for the beginners whilst they are in lessons, usually taking it on my way to meet them
- also worth looking at whether or not there are blues down from the highest parts of the mountain. One of the most amazing things thhe first time you go skiing is the views from the top, still remember this blowing me away my first time
- if you aren't actually going then would be worth asking on here about the resorts in particular, pick out the gems of info between the squabbling 
- Be wary of ski routes home, often worth either finishing a little early, or stop for a drink on the mountain and let the crowds pass before skiing home, I've seen so many nervous beginners fall trying to ski home on icy worn out pistes with hundreds of skiers whizzing past, included a holiday ending knee injury for a good friend a couple years ago, on day one too! Certainly don't fall for the 'yeah it is a red home, but they will be fine if they take it slowly attitude. Equally it's a bit of an anticlimax for beginners if they then have to take the lift off the mountain
Probably went a bit outside of the original question there, but thems me thoughts!
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| xyzpaul wrote: |
| It's human nature to explore, so to prefer a resort with fewer km's is to go against evolution. |
What a load of balls. What if the resort has fewer km of piste but it's quieter/the snow's better/the pistes are better?
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FAQ
