 Poster: A snowHead
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We have just booked DIY to Wagrain in Austria. One of the nicest hotels in town only wants €12 per night for a single supplement.
You can fly to Salzburg from Leeds, Liverpool and Stansted. Tranfsers are €41 return pp
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oops I can see now that a few other people have suggested Ski Miquel as well, they look good, I'm going to go for them next time I go to Serre Chevalier as last time I looked I couldn't find anywhere else as reasonable as the Grand Hotel for single rooms.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, yeah Austria has got plenty of well priced accommodation for those that want single rooms. Part of the reason why I've been going to Austria lately.
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Frosty the Snowman, Austria seems to work better with the DIY route as well for some reason, probably because the train system there (and from Switzerland) is very good and you can get to the resorts easily and cheaply by train. I've been doing that lately as well to save on transfer prices.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| OK calm down everyone. This thread was not about having a pop at my group of ski buddies and our requirements, it was and still is about unfair sole use supplements.... |
As with any thread, it develops a line of its own, and becomes about what the posters make of it. In this case, several sHs think you are wrong about the supplements - and think that you and your ski buddies should be a bit more flexible. Oh, and don't worry about the posters being calm. I think they are merely - calmly - telling you that they disagree with you - and constructively making suggestions about how to get around our problem. 
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VolklAttivaS5, we've exclusively skied in Austria and Italy since I've been skiing with the same group for those very reasons. Originally our plan was the Grand Hotel in Serre Che for next season, although the reviews on Trip Advisor were a bit negative. But when that was no longer available, we started to look at the Hotel Plein Sud instead. Like you I am prepared to pay £150 per week solo supplement or even £200 for a really nice hotel, but £392 is just too much. The Ski Miquel options look great but flights from only Gatwick and Manchester would be a deal breaker for my group.
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achilles, I don't see any constructive suggestions, I just see people being flamey. There are good reasons why DIY is not suitable, lack of flights for one thing. And the room share thing probably isn't possible given that we have separate bookings and fly from different airports. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable imposing myself on anybody else anyway. Sharing a room with me would be a most unpleasant experience, even my cat doesn't like it! 
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| Quote: |
| Sharing a room with me would be a most unpleasant experience |
Sharing a chatroom with you certainly is.....
(it's a joke, OK? You didn't really expect me to leave a gem like that unanswered, did you?  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The thing is, if single rooms were reasonably priced, wouldn't most people book them? The majority, I guess, really don't want to share, even with a friend. Apart from embarrassing noises, smells etc, there is the lights on readers/lights off sleepers/telly addicts/dreadful music sing alongers/windows open fresh air freaks/closed but cosy (stuffy) people and probably a whole lot more. And you can't make private phone calls/surf the net for ages without looking unfriendly. People used to share rooms as children/teens but on the whole they don't anymore. They are used to their own space. They only put up with sharing because of the price.
So really, hotels can charge what they can get away with .....
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queen bodecia, I wonder if it might be worth contacting Ski Miquel and seeing if it's possible to get a flight from somewhere else? They are probably just about to sort out their stuff for next season. Might be worth a try because then if they are able to sort out something then you could still benefit from the nice single supplements.
I'm sure your mates would be ok with going from Manchester even if it's a bit further than normal wouldn't they? If it means you'd save nigh on £400 or means you wouldn't go otherwise?
From where I live Gatwick is a good 3.5 hours and Manchester is about 2.5 to 3 and because flights from Birmingham tend to have quite deer supplements I often travel 3 hours to get to the airport. I'm sure they wouldn't mind as it's a one off?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 13-05-11 14:35; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I got on a train and paid full price, 4 people got on with me and only had to pay for 2 , how singlist is that , my ticket cost the same as two of them!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ok then, into the lions den it is
We have 6 hotels that hold around 100 / 130 people in each
In all six hotels we have a total of three (that’s 3 or 0.41% of the total) rooms with just one single bed.
We don't charge a supplement to people who stay, alone, in a room with just one bed.
We charge a supplement of £150 per person to anyone wanting to take a twin/double room on their own.
Why?
Simple, the single person is taking up the space (and turn over) of two people.
During the high sesson we are always fully booked and so, if you take a twin, we have to turn other people (and the turn over) away.
If you want two seats on a plane then you buy (and pay for) 2
If you want 2 loafs of bread you buy (and pay for) 2
If you want .... you get the idea
Why should hotel beds be any different?
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lightningdan,
That's probably because you were unwilling to share your seat..
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You know it makes sense.
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Wayne, I think you're spot on and I agree, if a room only has a single bed in it (and therefore can only house 1 person anyway) then there should be no supplement. If you want a twin room and therefore 2 beds to yourself, then sure a supplement is to expected as you're taking a space someone else could have paid full price for.
Some TOs charge a supplement even for a single room with only 1 bed in it though, which seems a bit tight, for a single bed too which is meant for one person only. I can think of one I stayed in in Meribel like that but overall the total price was good, the supplement was £80 or something and the location was good so I was ok with it even though it seemed a bit stingy charging extra for a single bed. There's no way you'd get 2 beds in there either so it's not as if they've offered it as a 1 bed room with the space for 2 like.
Generally though, when I've paid a supplement there's been 2 beds in the room, or a double bed, so it could have slept 2 people in it. So that's ok by me.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 13-05-11 14:45; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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queen bodecia, It's been pointed out that you could DIY - your reply 'not suitable'. Goodness know why - many other sHs manage. It's also been pointed out that Ski Miquel do a reasonable deal - and fly from Manchester' Your reply is that some of the party might have to drive 3-4 hours - as I have to do just that sometimes I really cannot see a problem. You seem to have a fixed and impractical viewpoint, which it is hard to help.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wayne, you are also losing out on bar takings (and depending on your charges) restaurant sales when one person is occupying a twin room.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kruisler, hahaha , don't always get a seat!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
hotels can charge what they can get away with .....
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Why not? Mostly, in hotels, in most parts of the world that I've experienced, you pay for a room. It's twice the price if there's only one of you. Because of my age I know many married people who each have their own bedrooms (and though we start in the same one, three-quarters of the time my OH ends up in the spare room because of my snoring  ) But if we go to a hotel we put up with sharing, often in a stupidly tiny so-called "double" bed (we are used to a super king sized bed) rather than pay twice the price. Obviously if hotels have excess capacity and know they will otherwise have a lot of empty rooms they are more likely to rent them out singly at a discount, provided the payment made covers their marginal cost. But to drive that kind of bargain you probably need to negotiate direct with the hotel and not travel in peak times, when they are in a seller's market.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| achilles wrote: |
| queen bodecia, It's been pointed out that you could DIY - your reply 'not suitable'. Goodness know why - many other sHs manage. It's also been pointed out that Ski Miquel do a reasonable deal - and fly from Manchester' Your reply is that some of the party might have to drive 3-4 hours - as I have to do just that sometimes I really cannot see a problem. You seem to have a fixed and impractical viewpoint, which it is hard to help. |
Exactly, and also:
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| queen bodecia, we've travelled on the same booking as others, and flown from different airports, and stayed in the same villa. |
But nothing is doable for that group it seems.
Unwillingness to share rooms, unwillingness to travel to airports, unwillingness to use DIY... That group just sounds as if they just want to do anything but travel as a group... why bother then..
They should sort themselves out individually and just agree to meet on the slopes..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Wayne, you are also losing out on bar takings (and depending on your charges) restaurant sales when one person is occupying a twin room. |
No we’re not as we don’t make anything on restaurant sales or bar takings anyway.
We sell fully inclusive holidays (inc, flights, lift pass, equip, transfers, evening ents, etc, etc). So we get paid per person. If we have to turn away 2 people as 1 person has the room we could have used, well, lets just say it’s not too good.
The vast majority of people who go skiing go with someone else. This is a fact, regardless of what you may infer from this thread. We try and provide holiday that the majority of buyers will want. OK, this means that we lose out now and again on the odd peripheral booking but that’s just the way it is.
We, like all other TO’s really do try and cope with every request that we get, but sometime you just have to say that it’s not possible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| The idea behind this thread was not an opportunity for all you smug married/family types to have a pop at me for being single but more for us solo travellers (whether single or otherwise) to have a pop at the travel industry for fleecing us rotten. I realise I have to pay extra for a single room, it's just the sometimes exhorbitant amounts I object to. |
I'm single. But I have to say I can't resist to "have a pop" at you and your group.
The "travel industry" exist to make money! So they would infinitely prefer to cater to two instead of one in a room, for reasons pointed out by others! So you can't have a pop at the industry unless you can beat them at their own game: e.g. DIY or low season!
I, on the other hand, do get a lot of chances to have my "pop at the industry". I go to snowhead bashes, sharing room with others, DIY and go in April instead of Feb/March etc.
You're not going to get much sympathy from this crowd when you keep turning down their offer. The simple truth of life being, you pay for what you want. If you're getting a room designed for two for yourself, you'll have to pay double.
| Quote: |
| what's not flexible? We're a group of 8 who need two single rooms and regional airport departures. I'm drawing up a list of alternative suggestions for my group including potentially a change of dates. That way we can decide the best option and go with it. That's flexibiity surely? |
You're not particularly flexible to start with. But add in the restriction of the rest of the group, your choices are slim. If I were in the "industry", who else but inflexible groups like yours to make a killing on? Anyone who has choices can walk away. Only groups without other options will put up with my price. 
One time I was tasked to find a restaurant for a group: a vegetarian, a diabetic, some one who doesn't eat pork (Muslim), someone who doesn't eat beef (Indian), someone who's allergic to seafood, and a gluten free dieter. It's only a group of 9, can't be too hard, right? I've eaten with each and everyone of them and it wasn't a problem. But put together, it's impossible!!! I swear I'll never take up ANY task of finding place to eat ever again!!!
Maybe your group would have to accept you can't go skiing together at the time you wish at acceptable cost?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 13-05-11 15:08; edited 1 time in total
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Wayne, sorry, I was thinking for a moment that you were owning the hotels - who would, of course, be losing out on those takings.
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Forget the hotel now, but think it was Mayrhofen, that wanted me to pay €75 pppn supplement. Went elsewhere and paid that for a room with breakfast.
I was going to suggest booking 2 extra companions who would be "no-show", booking them as holiday but no flights (to save a few £), for these cases where the supplement exceeds the cost of an occupant, but sods law says the hotel would put them as sharing on the room list, so you'd have to argue with the hotel to get the room.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Definitely agree that travelling at non peak times saves ££££££. I actually prefer skiing in the cold snowy months of Dec and Jan anyway as opposed to the warmer Spring months.
Mind you, I did have a look at a DIY Christmas trip to Austria not long ago and despite it being a peak week it was surprising how cheap it was as compared to the TO deals, even with a single room.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| achilles, I don't see any constructive suggestions, I just see people being flamey. |
Nobody's obligated to provide you, or me, with products or services that match a long and inflexible list of requirements for a price of our own choosing. I'm afraid people who cast themselves as victims in such circumstances can't expect to attract much sympathy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can see why this thread comes across as a bit one against the world but its really quite simple - hotels don't really have single rooms in any significant quantities for reasons stated above and want to maximise their return per bed for other rooms. If single occupancies were freely available without penalty most skiers who are happy to share (including I suspect some married couples) would be in competition with you for them anyway so in the end your prices would go up anyway.
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rayscoops, the worst I've paid was £129 and I wouldn't do that very often, that was a one off like. Usually I pay about £50 or £70 for the week or nothing which seems alright by me.
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You know it makes sense.
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VolklAttivaS5, of course, if you do not like the supplement then you do not pay it and make alternative arrangements. Worst I have paid was on an EOSB 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rayscoops, yeah.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops,
The EOSB does represent
A holiday that's excellent
It has no kind of fault or flaw
Room on your own? that's a little bit more
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 13-05-11 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The cost will be £375pp for shared twin/double accommodation in l’Oxalys incl. No one needs to pay a single supplement as we'll sort you out with a room mate of similar gender, but if you really want to be a lawn, you can be for £180.
ouch !!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Come come achilles, blatent pimping of a snowevent on the wrong forum. Lord Sourgrapin of Wessex will be on you like a ton of bricks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, mmmm. I'll remove the link. Tis just a bit of humour about single room costs - relevant to this thread - in response to rayscoops. I crave Lord Sourgrapin's indulgence.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VolklAttivaS5, Wayne, I really don't have a problem with a supplement of up to £200 for a twin room for sole use. I understand all the arguments. After all I didn't pay half price for my house purely because I live there alone.
However, I do think that over £200 per week for an empty bed is steep. I don't generate the cleaning and laundry of two people, neither do I eat two people's worth of food. Obviously I'd rather find a single room, i.e. one bed for one person only and I think a supplement for such a room (other than facility supplements) is wrong. Wayne's pricing structure seems perfectly fair to me.
maggi, is spot on with her reasons for wanting single rooms. I think there's a real gap in the market here for someone to exploit. Single rooms are always booked up way in advance which suggests to me there needs to be more of them.
As for the DIY thing, there simply aren't any scheduled flights from or to the airports we need, so it's not possible. The transfer situation looks rather difficult too. It's a holiday, who needs that sort of hassle?
And yes I agree it would be helpful if some of my party could travel 3-4 hours to a UK departure airport but they don't want to. They have their reasons and I respect those reasons.
However, VolklAttivaS5's suggestions of contacting Ski Miquel about alternative flights is certainly worth a try. The only flights are the Thomson charter flights but I believe they do often sell charter seats to other TOs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I didn't pay half price for my house purely because I live there alone. |
What were the other reasons?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| If single occupancies were freely available without penalty most skiers who are happy to share (including I suspect some married couples) would be in competition with you for them anyway so in the end your prices would go up anyway. |
Exactly!!!
It takes what, 10% extra area to turn a single room into a double by putting in a wider bed? The bathroom is still the same size, and the same amount of space to walk around the bed. Same space for stair/lift and corridors. So a hotelier can put no more number of single rooms vs. double in a building of particular size. And if they only charge half for the single's room, they'll be effectively halving their intake!
So how many single room do you think a hotel will have before the price per room doubles???
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I also beg to differ that cleaning a room for one is lesswork than a room for two. The cleaning tasks will be the same however many people have slept there.
Even if you don't sleep in the other bed, the sheets will need to be changed (you may have put luggage on there, or sat on it), bathroom is the same and needs cleaning to the same standard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I really don't have a problem with a supplement of up to £200 for a twin room for sole use. |
Now ya tell me.
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| Quote: |
I do think that over £200 per week for an empty bed is steep
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Depends on exactly how much that empty bed is costing the hotelier, doesn't it?
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I don't generate the cleaning and laundry of two people
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Yes you do. Or are you happy for the chambermaid to hoover half the room and only clean half the bath?
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I think there's a real gap in the market here for someone to exploit.
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I think you're wrong. If there were, someone would be doing it. Like it or not, most people holiday in pairs whether or not they're couples, smug or otherwise.
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FAQ
